Roman / Brock vs. Sasha / Bayley

[Coffey]

Is part of the appeal that guys are attracted to the girls because that's what I was thinking when I first started watching

 

No, not at all. At least not for me. I just think Sasha is a great professional wrestler. She is also only 23-years-old & has only been wrestling for like four or five years now.

 

Honestly, at one time, I felt like the odd man out as I was the one that was usually criticizing her while she seemed to be getting universal praise from everyone else. The difference was not that I was saying that she was bad, I was arguing that she was not Top 5 IN THE WORLD. I stand by that. That gives you an idea of how good some people think that Sasha is though. It doesn't have anything to do with her sex or her attractiveness. She is just a good pro-wrestler. Even guys like "Stone Cold" Steve Austin praise her. Him & Mick Foley just did that today on his podcast, actually. I would wager to them it is not because she looks like a Las "Vegas stripper" either...

 

Bayley, for me, is more about the character & the journey. If you follow NXT, of have followed NXT, you got to see her entire story play out & that was pretty cool. From being the happy babyface that everyone else took advantage of, to finally finding a killer instinct & that drive to succeed leading to her winning the NXT Women's Championship.

 

The Bayley Vs. Sasha Banks match(es) was/were about (1) good wrestling & (2) good storytelling from (3) good characters. That's just basic professional wrestling & probably the reason most of us became fans in the first place.

[rvd356]

Are we sure rvd wasn't just saying that he really wants to fuck Brock or Roman or both?

Wow so I try really hard to not make gay jokes or insults because for 1 I was pretty sure one Admin was gay, and 2 because it's wrong I don't wanna perpetuate that(and I have been tested immensely this week too believe me). And thats how I get cut up for not liking an overrated match, as gay. And that's the whole thing when you make fun of someone calling them gay, then you kinda make a joke of some people lives.

 

Maybe I'm more progressive on this issue than women. But thank you Jimmy for laying down exactly which opinions are factual.

.

[Grimmas]

 

Are we sure rvd wasn't just saying that he really wants to fuck Brock or Roman or both?

Wow so I try really hard to not make gay jokes or insults because for 1 I was pretty sure one Admin was gay, and 2 because it's wrong I don't wanna perpetuate that(and I have been tested immensely this week too believe me). And thats how I get cut up for not liking an overrated match, as gay. And that's the whole thing when you make fun of someone calling them gay, then you kinda make a joke of some people lives.

 

Maybe I'm more progressive on this issue than women. But thank you Jimmy for laying down exactly which opinions are factual.

.

 

Wasn't a gay joke. You implied the only reason people like the Sasha match is due to attraction to her. That comment was just a reversal of that.

 

The fact you have to try to not do gay jokes is not progressive, but pathetic. By the way, being a sexist does not make you progressive.

[Matt D]

After all this, the polkadots put it over the top for me and I just tied the vote (I hadn't realized it was 36 to 35 at the point).

[rvd356]

 

 

 

Are we sure rvd wasn't just saying that he really wants to fuck Brock or Roman or both?

Wow so I try really hard to not make gay jokes or insults because for 1 I was pretty sure one Admin was gay, and 2 because it's wrong I don't wanna perpetuate that(and I have been tested immensely this week too believe me). And thats how I get cut up for not liking an overrated match, as gay. And that's the whole thing when you make fun of someone calling them gay, then you kinda make a joke of some people lives.

 

Maybe I'm more progressive on this issue than women. But thank you Jimmy for laying down exactly which opinions are factual.

.

Wasn't a gay joke. You implied the only reason people like the Sasha match is due to attraction to her. That comment was just a reversal of that.

 

The fact you have to try to not do gay jokes is not progressive, but pathetic. By the way, being a sexist does not make you progressive.

God damn what world did you grow up in? Gay as a put down was normal for my generation growing up untill recently. And now I try not to because it was ingrained in me, in sports and shit.

 

And really he says I want to fuck Roman and Brock that wss meant as insulting but it doesn't hurt me. Well maybe it does actually, and then you gotta pile on top saying I'm pathetic for trying to change? And you're perfect morally I bet without trying.

 

Any non watcher of wrestling that saw that on TV would still think it was SEX and make similar judgments, especially women themselves would call them skanks out of jealousy or whatever.

 

Why am I even talking about this, match was average at best with dudes, girls or Bruce Jenners wrestling.

[Grimmas]

 

 

 

Are we sure rvd wasn't just saying that he really wants to fuck Brock or Roman or both?

Wow so I try really hard to not make gay jokes or insults because for 1 I was pretty sure one Admin was gay, and 2 because it's wrong I don't wanna perpetuate that(and I have been tested immensely this week too believe me). And thats how I get cut up for not liking an overrated match, as gay. And that's the whole thing when you make fun of someone calling them gay, then you kinda make a joke of some people lives.

 

Maybe I'm more progressive on this issue than women. But thank you Jimmy for laying down exactly which opinions are factual.

.

Wasn't a gay joke. You implied the only reason people like the Sasha match is due to attraction to her. That comment was just a reversal of that.

 

The fact you have to try to not do gay jokes is not progressive, but pathetic. By the way, being a sexist does not make you progressive.

God damn what world did you grow up in? Gay as a put down was normal for my generation growing up untill recently. And now I try not to because it was ingrained in me, in sports and shit.

 

And really he says I want to fuck Roman and Brock that wss meant as insulting but it doesn't hurt me. Well maybe it does actually, and then you gotta pile on top saying I'm pathetic for trying to change? And you're perfect morally I bet without trying.

 

Any non watcher of wrestling that saw that on TV would still think it was SEX and make similar judgments, especially women themselves would call them skanks out of jealousy or whatever.

 

Why am I even talking about this, match was average at best with dudes, girls or Bruce Jenners wrestling.

 

Wow. So when someone watches Bayley-Sasha they think of sex, but watching Roman-Brock they do not?

 

Also I may gay jokes when I was a kid, now I am an adult and have grown up and realize how insanely stupid it is.

[Slasher]

Things have gotten better for women wrestlers in the WWE lately- but I do think there is merit (very little though) to what rvd is saying. Consider:

 

1. The WWE has always had really bad issues with booking women, dating back to the Moolah championship era.

 

2. As a big part of the Attitude era, with how they were drawing serious money overall and seeing a sizable jump in public interest or appeal, they see the WWE having them roll around in the ring in ripped clothes exposing their undergarments or they see their world champion of women come to the ring with painted handprints on her chest. In other words, their only use for the women at the time is to push them based on T&A for the prepubescent boys to fulfill some thoughts on women that has nothing to do witb their ability in the ring.

 

3. Vince McMahon/Kevin Dunn's guideline: bitches be crazy.

 

So I mean, you can't blame some people not being able to enjoy their matches when all those degrading ways to book them have shaped up how they view them. What was once exciting as a kid, no longer have that value or even any other values for those same guys 10 years later when they can grab Hustler magazines or internet porn that they now have guaranteed access to if desired. So the women's matches have generally been reduced to piss break matches. One excellent match does not, can not, will not reverse years of damage being taught wrong ideas about them, at least not overnight. It is going to take more than one match or one series/feud to get them to say "Well this is interesting and good work, I am a fan now" They have to keep fighting to change that perception but the divas I think are already to start fizzling out and people lose interest in that product. So they have essentially taken one huge step forward but then taking 2 back when the major player in the WWE is a girl who is pretty average as a wrestler and has no real good talking ability. Guess Ric Flair have not passed that skill of his to her. NXT is in better shape for now but once Bayley moves on and Asuka moves on, they are left with a diva ringer for Total Divas as one of their top heels. Dana Brooke might surprise people and getting over kinda like how they had Sasha as somewhat of an underling role before breaking the fuck out when she got a good opportunity as a standalone character. Maybe Nia Jaxx will improve but maybe not. So yeah we will see what happens next.

[rvd356]

 

 

 

 

 

Are we sure rvd wasn't just saying that he really wants to fuck Brock or Roman or both?

Wow so I try really hard to not make gay jokes or insults because for 1 I was pretty sure one Admin was gay, and 2 because it's wrong I don't wanna perpetuate that(and I have been tested immensely this week too believe me). And thats how I get cut up for not liking an overrated match, as gay. And that's the whole thing when you make fun of someone calling them gay, then you kinda make a joke of some people lives.

 

Maybe I'm more progressive on this issue than women. But thank you Jimmy for laying down exactly which opinions are factual.

.

Wasn't a gay joke. You implied the only reason people like the Sasha match is due to attraction to her. That comment was just a reversal of that.

 

The fact you have to try to not do gay jokes is not progressive, but pathetic. By the way, being a sexist does not make you progressive.

God damn what world did you grow up in? Gay as a put down was normal for my generation growing up untill recently. And now I try not to because it was ingrained in me, in sports and shit.

 

And really he says I want to fuck Roman and Brock that wss meant as insulting but it doesn't hurt me. Well maybe it does actually, and then you gotta pile on top saying I'm pathetic for trying to change? And you're perfect morally I bet without trying.

 

Any non watcher of wrestling that saw that on TV would still think it was SEX and make similar judgments, especially women themselves would call them skanks out of jealousy or whatever.

 

Why am I even talking about this, match was average at best with dudes, girls or Bruce Jenners wrestling.

Wow. So when someone watches Bayley-Sasha they think of sex, but watching Roman-Brock they do not?

 

Also I may gay jokes when I was a kid, now I am an adult and have grown up and realize how insanely stupid it is.

Drop the gay thing it was an insult saying I wanted to fuck the guys, duh. I don't care he dropped to that and I try not to because i refrain from personal attacks on here because I already have different favorites and why would I want enemies but looks like it's too late.

 

Yes. Because forever it was about who was the hottest became the big babyface generally: Sable then Lita then Trish and they were often in bra and panties matches and well there has only been only 'good girl' in WWE (Elizabeth) that I remember. You know one that is a role model.

[rvd356]

 

 

 

 

 

Are we sure rvd wasn't just saying that he really wants to fuck Brock or Roman or both?

Wow so I try really hard to not make gay jokes or insults because for 1 I was pretty sure one Admin was gay, and 2 because it's wrong I don't wanna perpetuate that(and I have been tested immensely this week too believe me). And thats how I get cut up for not liking an overrated match, as gay. And that's the whole thing when you make fun of someone calling them gay, then you kinda make a joke of some people lives.

 

Maybe I'm more progressive on this issue than women. But thank you Jimmy for laying down exactly which opinions are factual.

.

Wasn't a gay joke. You implied the only reason people like the Sasha match is due to attraction to her. That comment was just a reversal of that.

 

The fact you have to try to not do gay jokes is not progressive, but pathetic. By the way, being a sexist does not make you progressive.

God damn what world did you grow up in? Gay as a put down was normal for my generation growing up untill recently. And now I try not to because it was ingrained in me, in sports and shit.

 

And really he says I want to fuck Roman and Brock that wss meant as insulting but it doesn't hurt me. Well maybe it does actually, and then you gotta pile on top saying I'm pathetic for trying to change? And you're perfect morally I bet without trying.

 

Any non watcher of wrestling that saw that on TV would still think it was SEX and make similar judgments, especially women themselves would call them skanks out of jealousy or whatever.

 

Why am I even talking about this, match was average at best with dudes, girls or Bruce Jenners wrestling.

Wow. So when someone watches Bayley-Sasha they think of sex, but watching Roman-Brock they do not?

 

Also I may gay jokes when I was a kid, now I am an adult and have grown up and realize how insanely stupid it is.

Drop the gay thing it was an insult saying I wanted to fuck the guys, duh. I don't care he dropped to that and I try not to because i refrain from personal attacks on here because I already have different favorites and why would I want enemies but looks like it's too late.

 

Yes. Because forever it was about who was the hottest became the big babyface generally: Sable then Lita then Trish and they were often in bra and panties matches and well there has only been only 'good girl' in WWE (Elizabeth) that I remember. You know one that is a role model.

[Coffey]

Of all the people that replied & the discussion to be had, after eight pages of posts, why do you only care about that one? Just ignore it & talk about the subject at hand, please.

[Dylan Waco]

Why is it offensive or wrong for me to speculate that rvd might be sexually attracted to Brock or Roman, when he suggested that sexual attraction to Sasha or Bayley are the only reasons anyone would enjoy the match? I'm simply treating his critique seriously and asking if sex as a motivating factor behind what someone likes in their wrestling goes both ways.

[Jimmy Redman]

I think the fact that rvd is as offended as he was by it demonstrates how offensive his comment was in the first place. And still he doesn't seem to get it.

[Benbeeach]

fascinating that this is a dead stalemate

[Matt D]

Sasha vs Bayley shouldn't beat Dragon Lee vs Kamaitachi for feud of the year. That much I think is pretty certain.

[JerryvonKramer]

Wow, I believe this is the first time Sasha / Bayley has pulled ahead.

[Mad Dog]

All the guys with daughters I know love Bayley because they think she's a good role model. She is probably the least sexualized female wrestler ever.

[NotJayTabb]

Sadly doesn't stop there being a large number of creepy looking guys sending photo's of themselves in "I'm A Hugger" t-shirts to Bayley on Twitter :-)

[Luchaundead]

The biggest problem for Brock vs Roman is the angle/non-finish at the end, Sasha vs Bayley was a better more well rounded match that had pure emotion and excitement. On top of being a perfect story the ladies also brought it in ring with inovative moves and counters when they could have taken it easy because the crowd was already in the palm of there hands from the entrances. Brock brought his same run of the mill game the most new and exciting thing he did was say "Suplex city" which did make him some money on shirts so that's good wrestling I guess. When it comes down to it Roman vs Brock was as good of a stiff big-fight style brawl as you can have but, Sasha vs Bayley was transcendent. Side note Bruce Jenners of wrestling is either painfully offensive or the best idea for a new promotion ever

[WingedEagle]

Rewatched Brock/Roman this weekend as I think about MOTY ballot and still absolutely loved it. Perhaps it'd have been a bit stronger with a straight finish between the two of them, but thought Rollins introduction and role in in the match were just about perfect if you're going that route. The timing and booking from his entrance to the finish were spot on without any sense of clusterfuckery. Firmly on it at ****3/4 and currently only behind the G1 finals in 2015.

[jushin muta liger]

I will echo what a lot people have said before: if the Rollins cash in doesn't happen, Brock vs Roman is a better match.

 

With Sasha vs Bayley, it was completed storytelling. Beginning, middle and end. We even got the rematch out of it. Can't say that about Brock vs Roman and I'm losing faith that WWE won't make that match again even though they should immediately.

 

In the moment it got good shock value but it feels more like a swerve just to do a swerve.

[Timbo Slice]

They booked themselves into a corner with Rollins. Only way he could have cashed in with Lesnar was how it happened, really. Although I really do think The Shield reunion happening as opposed to another Authority schmuck is the right call.

 

The ending made sense, but objectively, the main event shouldn't have a finish like that. Should always be clean, regardless.

 

But hey, Vince has been wanting the ending to WM17 to happen again for almost 15 years now, so.

[Slasher]

I may be wrong but isn't the MITB contract good for up to a year? They could have given Reigns a clean finish and deal with Rollins stealing the belt over the summer or something. Wrestlemania was not his last chance. But I think the idea of someone cashing in at Wrestlemania was something they have been wanting to do ever since creating the concept. So this kills two birds with a stone (keeping the belt away from Reigns so they can try to rehabilitate his character and finally do the Mania cash in).

[jushin muta liger]

I may be wrong but isn't the MITB contract good for up to a year? They could have given Reigns a clean finish and deal with Rollins stealing the belt over the summer or something. Wrestlemania was not his last chance. But I think the idea of someone cashing in at Wrestlemania was something they have been wanting to do ever since creating the concept. So this kills two birds with a stone (keeping the belt away from Reigns so they can try to rehabilitate his character and finally do the Mania cash in).

Yes you're right it being a year. The most logical thing coming out of Mania was thinking Reigns would chase him over the summer but that didn't happen.

[Slasher]

It would be logical but there is a problem for either outcome-

 

If Rollins retained, this hurts the potential of a big time Reigns run if you have him constantly failing to win the belt.

 

If Reigns won- you are back to the issue that no one wanted to root for him, and that is a big pill to swallow for a babyface world champion. It worked with Cena because let's face it, Cena is an once in generation type talent.

 

So I can understand why they tried to keep them apart. What they should have done instead of putting Reigns in with the Big Show is to have Brock/Reigns II nontitle, and put Reigns over there so he can become the shadow that haunts Rollins's nightmares.

[Jingus]

In the situation they found themselves in, neither Brock nor Roman could really afford to do a clean job at Mania. Nobody wanted to see Reigns pushed as the top guy over Brock, and the crowd would've shit all over that match if he'd pinned Lesnar. But they also didn't want to just give up on Reigns either, so they couldn't have Lesnar beat him clean; it would've made him look like even more of a chump and a loser than the fans already thought he was.

 

And since doing some bullshit DQ or other non-finish is obviously not a viable option at Mania, we got the compromise solution of Rollins cashing in. That benefitted four different guys at once. It gave Brock a plausible way to finally lose the title without damaging his unique aura, it gave Roman a reason to lose without looking like a loser, it gave Rollins the title and made him the new top heel (which sadly didn't last, but nobody knew that at the time) and it also gave Randy Orton a ready-made storyline reason to be in a top title feud since he beat Seth earlier that night. Heck, it even benefitted Dean Ambrose, tossing him into the title picture mostly because the other two ex-Shield guys were already there. None of that would've happened if Brock had just pinned Roman.