2016 WWE Hall of Fame

[Fando]

I said this on Twitter last night and still think it:

 

Do hate to say this but I have never once in thirty years believed that Sting loves the business. Even now I still don't get that impression

 

What does this even mean?

[JerryvonKramer]

That he doesn't have a love for the business that comes through.

 

Flair, Funk, Hayes, these guys all have a love for the business that comes through strongly when they talk about pro wrestling.

 

For Sting, even in the moment of his HoF induction, it was more a business opportunity and a job.

 

It can't be faked one way or the other.

 

I tend to feel closer to guys that love the business, but that's just me.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

I liked Sting, Hansen and, surprisingly, Snoop's speeches. Just wanted the Freebirds to end. Made me cringe. Romanticism about guys pissing on each other and destroying things just isn't for me I guess. Are we going to have to hear every year about what a great and inspiring guy homophobic nutjob the Ultimate Warrior was? I find the whole 'Warrior Award' thing about the most unsettling thing they do.

[Parties]

Most wrestlers, especially in a HOF setting, "love wrestling" the way one loves a domineering mother with whom one has never had a cross word. I'm speculating entirely based off his speech and his attitude in recent years, but I would guess Sting "loves wrestling" the way a lot of people love a spouse: ups and downs, passionate times and tough ones, a critical eye delivered with pragmatism and ardor at once.

 

It isn't that he dislikes or resents it. He's just not a fanboy about it the way many workers are. There's always that locker room adage about "the boys being bigger marks than the fans are". Sting's more into church and buying up land these days, because he's a wealthy, pious 56 year old man. He delivered that HOF address last night the way a corporate executive would give a retirement speech. (I thought he was absolutely great, by the way, even if the sunglasses and bat were weird.)

 

The irony is that Sting is what Vince/WWE are trying to condition today's wrestlers to be, even if there's a sentimentality that comes out at these events where the truer, messier Michael Hayes spirit of pro wrestling emerges. It's a somewhat mixed message in that Vince wants everyone to act like a board member, while also placing the job at the core of their emotions. Be professional, but still create maudlin moments, so as to depict wrestling as the most important aspect of your life. Tear up once in a while as you get older. In other words: be Vince.

[JerryvonKramer]

He delivered that HOF address last night the way a corporate executive would give a retirement speech.

Extremely well put.

[Loss]

Most wrestlers, especially in a HOF setting, "love wrestling" the way one loves a domineering mother with whom one has never had a cross word. I'm speculating entirely based off his speech and his attitude in recent years, but I would guess Sting "loves wrestling" the way a lot of people love a spouse: ups and downs, passionate times and tough ones, a critical eye delivered with pragmatism and ardor at once.

 

It isn't that he dislikes or resents it. He's just not a fanboy about it the way many workers are. There's always that locker room adage about "the boys being bigger marks than the fans are". Sting's more into church and buying up land these days, because he's a wealthy, pious 56 year old man. He delivered that HOF address last night the way a corporate executive would give a retirement speech. (I thought he was absolutely great, by the way, even if the sunglasses and bat were weird.)

 

The irony is that Sting is what Vince/WWE are trying to condition today's wrestlers to be, even if there's a sentimentality that comes out at these events where the truer, messier Michael Hayes spirit of pro wrestling emerges. It's a somewhat mixed message in that Vince wants everyone to act like a board member, while also placing the job at the core of their emotions. Be professional, but still create maudlin moments, so as to depict wrestling as the most important aspect of your life. Tear up once in a while as you get older. In other words: be Vince.

 

This may be my favorite post ever on the board.

[WingedEagle]

Finishing up the HOF today. Michael Hayes may be greatest thing ever.

[flyonthewall2983]

Dana went a little too long long with her intro. I wonder if they will continue to have her do those in the future.

 

I won't be surprised if they phase her out, and that eventually any connection Jim Hellwig/Warrior has with the Warrior award is nebulous.

[Fando]

That he doesn't have a love for the business that comes through.

 

Flair, Funk, Hayes, these guys all have a love for the business that comes through strongly when they talk about pro wrestling.

 

For Sting, even in the moment of his HoF induction, it was more a business opportunity and a job.

 

It can't be faked one way or the other.

 

I tend to feel closer to guys that love the business, but that's just me.

 

I tend to get grossed out by Flair and those types that would be dead in the water without the company and the cultish devotion they have to "the business" and "our industry," but I can see what you mean. Saying it was "just a job opportunity" goes a little far, it think. He got to have his career recognized by his family. He has a giant barn where he keeps all of his ring gear and memorabilia. He's obviously proud of what he's done and has good memories in the business.

[PhilTLL]

The "company Christmas dinner" mentality of having to pay deference to the bosses and the business all night is exhausting, especially when Flair pretends the McMahons are embarrassed by it, but whatever. Decent show overall. I could have listened to Hansen talk for hours--serious uncle/grandpa envy for that family. Sting was a lot of fun too. The Birds were as good as expected, although I could have done without Hayes' awful karaoke. Singing cold over a PA with no monitors would be very difficult even for pros, and that whole mess could have been nipped in the bud. And the entire Godfather segment was just bizarre, soup to nuts; thank god it was short. The only thing I could find to like about it was his obvious joy at being there.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

That he doesn't have a love for the business that comes through.

 

Flair, Funk, Hayes, these guys all have a love for the business that comes through strongly when they talk about pro wrestling.

 

For Sting, even in the moment of his HoF induction, it was more a business opportunity and a job.

 

It can't be faked one way or the other.

 

I tend to feel closer to guys that love the business, but that's just me.

I tend to get grossed out by Flair and those types that would be dead in the water without the company and the cultish devotion they have to "the business" and "our industry," but I can see what you mean. Saying it was "just a job opportunity" goes a little far, it think. He got to have his career recognized by his family. He has a giant barn where he keeps all of his ring gear and memorabilia. He's obviously proud of what he's done and has good memories in the business.

 

To me it goes like this:

 

Cut Terry Funk or Flair on the arm and they'll bleed pro wrestling. If they didn't have it, they couldn't do anything else, it is so part and parcel of who they are. They gave their lives for the business and their life is the business.

 

If Sting didn't have wrestling, he'd be doing something else.

 

He's proud of his career, but he doesn't bleed pro wrestling.

[Loss]

I don't think it was a criticism of Steve Borden as a person as much as it was a statement about attachment as a wrestling fan. I love Ric Flair far more than Sting, but there is such a passive aggressive fury behind everything Flair says. Bubbling just under the persona, you see a very depressed, very sad, very angry man who never quite figured out how to come down from greatness. He's been slowly becoming that person for a quarter-century now and now, he can't even hide it. So Steve Borden is an infinitely more well-adjusted person than Richard Fleihr, but in the world of wrestling, Sting can't even come close to comparing.

[JerryvonKramer]

I was about to say that Funk is the guy who has managed to strike a balance between being married to the business while not being totally mal-adjusted. But then I remembered him doing a moonsault against Sabu in 1994. Ha ha.

[FMKK]

 

 

That he doesn't have a love for the business that comes through.Flair, Funk, Hayes, these guys all have a love for the business that comes through strongly when they talk about pro wrestling.For Sting, even in the moment of his HoF induction, it was more a business opportunity and a job.It can't be faked one way or the other.I tend to feel closer to guys that love the business, but that's just me.

I tend to get grossed out by Flair and those types that would be dead in the water without the company and the cultish devotion they have to "the business" and "our industry," but I can see what you mean. Saying it was "just a job opportunity" goes a little far, it think. He got to have his career recognized by his family. He has a giant barn where he keeps all of his ring gear and memorabilia. He's obviously proud of what he's done and has good memories in the business.

To me it goes like this:Cut Terry Funk or Flair on the arm and they'll bleed pro wrestling. If they didn't have it, they couldn't do anything else, it is so part and parcel of who they are. They gave their lives for the business and their life is the business.If Sting didn't have wrestling, he'd be doing something else.He's proud of his career, but he doesn't bleed pro wrestling.

Good for him. He won't die in the ring at the age of 70 or anything stupid like that. Or piss away his money on multiple divorces trying to live a ridiculous lifestyle he should have left decades in the past. In terms of living a stable, healthy life, Sting's is probably the best approach to take.

 

Though on the other hand it meant that he didn't veto that abomination of a match with HHH last year so swings and roundabouts....

[JerryvonKramer]

 

 

 

That he doesn't have a love for the business that comes through.Flair, Funk, Hayes, these guys all have a love for the business that comes through strongly when they talk about pro wrestling.For Sting, even in the moment of his HoF induction, it was more a business opportunity and a job.It can't be faked one way or the other.I tend to feel closer to guys that love the business, but that's just me.

I tend to get grossed out by Flair and those types that would be dead in the water without the company and the cultish devotion they have to "the business" and "our industry," but I can see what you mean. Saying it was "just a job opportunity" goes a little far, it think. He got to have his career recognized by his family. He has a giant barn where he keeps all of his ring gear and memorabilia. He's obviously proud of what he's done and has good memories in the business.

 

To me it goes like this:Cut Terry Funk or Flair on the arm and they'll bleed pro wrestling. If they didn't have it, they couldn't do anything else, it is so part and parcel of who they are. They gave their lives for the business and their life is the business.If Sting didn't have wrestling, he'd be doing something else.He's proud of his career, but he doesn't bleed pro wrestling.

 

Good for him. He won't die in the ring at the age of 70 or anything stupid like that. Or piss away his money on multiple divorces trying to live a ridiculous lifestyle he should have left decades in the past. In terms of living a stable, healthy life, Sting's is probably the best approach to take.

 

Though on the other hand it meant that he didn't veto that abomination of a match with HHH last year so swings and roundabouts....

 

Yes, all this is true.

 

It's also true that Sting was mediocre for lots of his career.

 

I watched a doc about Walt Disney last week. He seemed quite mal-adjusted to me as well. But perhaps that level of sacrifice for the vocation is what is really needed to achieve "transcendent greatness" in a field. Perhaps someone who just treats it like a job can't ever reach those heights.

[Fando]

I was about to say that Funk is the guy who has managed to strike a balance between being married to the business while not being totally mal-adjusted. But then I remembered him doing a moonsault against Sabu in 1994. Ha ha.

 

On the other hand, Funk did think he could do other things. He just wasn't successful. So, moonsaulting on Sabu.

[Robert S]

A couple of random thoughts:

- Bossman's daughter and Buddy Robert's son did really good for two people who (I suppose) are not used to speak in front of such big crowds.

- The introductions by APA and the Dudleys were pretty funny. While the APA one fell really scripted the Dudleys are either much better actors ore ad-libbed much of their introduction.

- I wonder how Hayes would have dressed if there was no Godfather introduction.

- Godfather said nothing in the couple of minutes he spoke, except that the Godfather character is really him. No talk about this career, I mean he wrestled longer than the two years that he was the Godfather.

- Sting omitted quite some names I would have expected him to drop. In addition to the already mentioned Luger other people that come to mind are Rick Bassman (he was the one to come up with Power Team USA and trained Sting, correct?) and Eddie Gilbert (wasn't he the guy who took Sting under his wings in the UWF and basically taught him the business?).

[Fando]

Guys like Sting were mediocre pro wrestlers that liked wrestling and kept doing it until they broke down because they weren’t able to make a career in movies or as a bodybuilder and feed their egos any other way.

 

Guys like Funk were great pro wrestlers that loved wrestling and kept doing it until they broke down because they weren’t able to make a career in movies or football or feed their egos any other way

 

They both get a prize.

 

Maybe this discussion could go in another direction: Is “loving the business”intrinsic to being one of the greats?

[Matt D]

Brock from a recent AP article:

 

“Vince (McMahon) got his checkbook out and he’s writing more checks,” Lesnar said of his increased work load. “But I have a limit and we’re at that limit right now.”

“This is a job and I’m not caught up into it like maybe I’m supposed to be,” he said. “I approach this as, I’m a skilled worker. I clock in, I clock out. People pay to watch me and, by chance, I guess they find me entertaining. … When I look back and what I’m proud of is the money in my bank account.”

[sek69]

Bossman's daughters were indeed great for "civilians" in front of such a large crowd. Both of them look so much like their dad too. Props to mom too, when the three came out at first I couldn't tell which one she was.

 

Also seeing Ray Gordy made me wonder how, in a company where his dad's best friend is one of the top creative staff members did he only end up a low-midcard geek in WWE? I get not wanting to try to ride his father's coattails, but surely there were better options than the Jesse and Festus gimmick.

[goc]

Jesse and Festus was an awesome gimmick they just didn't do anything with it. I'd much rather see a Jesse & Festus return than Gallows doing a WWE version of the Bullet Club. Gallows would have to get fat again though.

 

Slam Master J was the actual bad gimmick that Ray Gordy got stuck with.

[pantherwagner]

Hansen was great. I could listen to him talking for hours.

 

The Bossman daughter who spoke looked like Ronda Rousey and Bossman's love child. Her speech was quite funny and genuine sounding.

 

I agree with all the comments about Sting looking like he was an exec at a company dinner. He spoke like a guy who wouldn't have felt a void in his life if he hadn't received that award, which is probably a good thing for him and his family. Flair was very entertaining in a Flair ad-libbing way but it was way too much about himself and not enough about Sting (hardly a surprise if you listen to his podcast).

 

Freebirds were pretty good but the ending was quite embarrassing. I also have no idea why there was so much time spent on the pre-show speculating on Hayes' attire when it was a lot more normal than what he usually wears (I'm sure many of you have seen the Bryan WWE 24 episode).

 

I wonder what was on Vince's head when Snoop said that Cena flew the friendly skies with him...

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

See, I thought Slam Master J was exactly the kind of bullshit that could have got pretty over if they'd have done something with it. He was good in that role. I always liked Ray Gordy.

[SteveJRogers]

 

 

Maybe this discussion could go in another direction: Is “loving the business”intrinsic to being one of the greats?

 

Which is why I speculated that its part of why the WON Hall voting masses tend to shy away from The Stinger when less...stringent shall we say Hall voting electorates aren't so caught up in that sort of discussions about candidates.

 

Since there isn't a ton of subjective numbers in wrestling, and even then you can argue how unimportant they truly are in determining HOF worthiness (Wins and losses, titles won, etc), its easier to latch on to "well, he didn't love the business" and somehow connect the dots with some of the candidate's faults.

 

I.e. with Sting its usually he wasn't a draw, while you could argue that he was still way over despite not putting fannies in the seats and eyeballs in front of the set, one could use his lack of passion for the business as a knock on his drive to be a better company ace.

 

IDK, grasping at straws with the Sting WON Hall debate.

[Loss]

I've come to conclude that most guys who are draws are that because of time, place and opportunity more than because they have some intrinsic quality that other wrestlers who are great but didn't really draw don't have. Superdraws like Hogan and Austin are the exception, but those guys are rare.