Reactions to the Honorable Mention List, Part 3

[Death From Above]

Thinking about this tonight: Is anyone else surprised that Dr. Death hasn't popped up yet? I always got the distinct impression that I was on an increasingly lonely bandwagon. Perhaps the increase in ballots was to his benefit. I hate to throw the phrase around for someone I actively still enjoy, but he seems like a "reputation guy" as much as anyone left.

 

I genuinely think his All Japan stint is underrated, simply by association of who else is there.

[Death From Above]

Hoss Funk goes down. One of the 120 people with H in their name.

[anarchistxx]

It's not about Malenko being voted for so much as it's about there not being enough discussion about him (and the discussion that was there not moving the needle), so that it came as a surprise. If he was someone who was going to end up so high, relatively, then we should have probably talked a lot more about him and people should have come to his defense more thoroughly, etc and then it could have been a debate that may or may not have swayed people one way or another. But apparently this was an issue back in 2006.

 

The 2006 poll basically happened over 2-3 months, perhaps even less. So there wasn't any real emphasis on rewatching and reevaluating and getting introduced to new wrestling - people were basically voting on what they had seen already. There used to be polls about music, film etc every couple of months on Smarkschoice so it was just seen as an interesting exercise rather some major project, until it massively took off and people started asking the likes of Meltz to vote.

 

Did Dave Prazak submit a list on SC? He definitely used to post on the board. On another random note, did Rob Naylor submit a vote for this? He was a pretty influential voice for a while.

[Goodear]

I think the Dean Malenko discussion is derailed by the argument being that he is boring and started the roll up fest thing (which could probably be traced back to Ricky Steamboat originally more accurately). I think blaming Malenko with the popularization of the cliche on the indies is like blaming Misawa for strike exchanges that go nowhere. They shouldn't be held responsible for dumb things that came after that were attempted by less talented people who didn't understand the reason why it was happening.

 

I've also never had the issue with the Iceman character that people took to be wrestling in a vacuum as it was his gimmick to be emotionless. He would then smartly get more out of firing up as a face on Jericho or eventually showing frustration as a heel. It was an event to see him break one way or the other. To me, it was taking a weakness and covering it up to make it a strength.

[goc]

I know the debate and critique is natural. I was responding to the complaints about non-PWO voters and such.

 

I also think it's important to remember when praising wrestlers that aren't part of established canon that the legwork is harder. Saying something like, "Oh, CIMA has been great for 15 years" without walking through each year of his career and pointing out why while recommending a few dozen matches probably won't cut it. On the flip side, people like Sting who are loved at a level disproportionate to their abilities should have probably been hit harder in their threads.

I am not sure more discussion would have mattered. Looking at placements of guys like Sting, Malenko and Bigelow its seems clear that at least one third of the voters did not really pay any attention to those threads.

[jamesie_2015]

The Sting and Dory pics are tremendous.

[donsem43]

Disappointed that Jaguar didn't make the top 100, but she did have an average vote that was 10+ better than Dory and was on 18 less ballots than Sting. When you consider those things she finished a lot better than she should have.

 

I'm not going to complain about how joshi wrestlers finished as a whole in this poll, because if ballots were due a couple of years ago all of them would have finished a lot worse. I'm just glad that people were willing to either revisit certain workers or tried to watch it for the first time regardless of what his/her opinion ended up being.

[pol]

 

I know the debate and critique is natural. I was responding to the complaints about non-PWO voters and such.

 

I also think it's important to remember when praising wrestlers that aren't part of established canon that the legwork is harder. Saying something like, "Oh, CIMA has been great for 15 years" without walking through each year of his career and pointing out why while recommending a few dozen matches probably won't cut it. On the flip side, people like Sting who are loved at a level disproportionate to their abilities should have probably been hit harder in their threads.

I am not sure more discussion would have mattered. Looking at placements of guys like Sting, Malenko and Bigelow its seems clear that at least one third of the voters did not really pay any attention to those threads.

 

 

I'm sure some people took the arguments in those threads into consideration and simply didn't agree, which is fine. What the percentages are, who can say.

[Ricky Jackson]

62 left. I was hoping for 60% of the top 100, but I'm guessing I'll lose more than two in the next reveal

[Grimmas]

9 more reveals till we get to the top 100. Anyone want to guess who doesn't make it?

[cowboy hats]

 

As a lurker (didn't vote!) who is greatly enjoying all of this, I just watched my first WoS match, picked a random one with Terry Rudge. Can someone explain the finish of the linked match? Rudge loses by DQ?And this is in Welsh, yes?

[JKWebb]

I didn't have Sting on my list but Sting is a ballsy wrestler who has some great matches with Vader, Regal and Foley where he was far from being carried. In fact he may be my favourite Vader opponent. I wouldn't have a problem at all if he made the Top 100.

Same here. He is my favorite Vader opponent. Although, he did make the bottom of my list....

[cowboy hats]

9 more reveals till we get to the top 100. Anyone want to guess who doesn't make it?

Rob Brookside

[GOTNW]

The fact that Tajiri will move up nearly 200 spots, without doing a huge amount of anything since the original ballot, is cause for celebration.

Someone try and convince me his ECW run is better than his SMASH/WNC run because I really don't see it. I don't think it played a significant role for must voters mind you.

[ohtani's jacket]

If there were a God it would be Undertaker, Angle, Jericho, Michaels, Muto, Hogan, Rock, Onita and Foley.

[Lee Casebolt]

 

As a lurker (didn't vote!) who is greatly enjoying all of this, I just watched my first WoS match, picked a random one with Terry Rudge. Can someone explain the finish of the linked match? Rudge loses by DQ?And this is in Welsh, yes?

 

It is in Welsh. Someone more knowledgeable than me will have to weigh in on whether Reslo is different than World of Sport, but I believe it is. Rudge got DQ'd for crotching poor Robbie Brookside on the top rope. Effectively a low blow, and a disqualification.

[Grimmas]

If there were a God it would be Undertaker, Angle, Jericho, Michaels, Muto, Hogan, Rock, Onita and Foley.

You don't think Hogan, Onita or Foley belong?

[Danish Dynamite]

One of those guys who talks about PWO a lot on Twitter but who doesn't post here said this:

 

Why do y'all want your ballots to have the most guys listed? To prove you are the woolliest of the sheep?#pwogwe

 

Just wondering how many people here feel that and how others might respond to that criticism.

 

Totally disagree with that thought. It's bullshit to me. I want my guys to rank high, because I like the guys I've voted for. I also want my guys to rank high, because the internal PWO friendly competition between us all is fun. It's fun (and all in good spirit) to laugh at each others picks, mock when someone elses fall and take the same shit when our own go down. ... Initially I had a prejudice that this community was leaning certain ways strongly, but even though there are small tendencies (usually well argumented for) everyone here has their own biases, their own peculiarities and own up to them. And no one thinks less of each other for it. Don't think anyone loses any sleep over their guys dropping. ... I'd say that twitter dude you're refering to reminds me of a tendency I think we all saw (or embodied) as teenagers, where it's more important to do and think differently than everyone else. A desperate need to stick out. ... I think most of us are mature enough that we rest comfortably in our own skin and our own oppinions and tastes, regardless of whether or not everyone or no one thinks the same. ... So I call bull on that criticism.

[ohtani's jacket]

 

As a lurker (didn't vote!) who is greatly enjoying all of this, I just watched my first WoS match, picked a random one with Terry Rudge. Can someone explain the finish of the linked match? Rudge loses by DQ?And this is in Welsh, yes?

That's Reslo not World of Sport.

[cowboy hats]

Just watched my first Reslo match, sports fans!

[ohtani's jacket]

 

 

If there were a God it would be Undertaker, Angle, Jericho, Michaels, Muto, Hogan, Rock, Onita and Foley.

You don't think Hogan, Onita or Foley belong?

I don't mind Foley that much but he's about as boring a top 100 pick as imaginabls. Onita I think is grossly overrated and Hogan should have dropped a long time ago. Mind you, I probably wouldn't have voted for two thirds of the top 100 so take it all with a grain of salt.

[El-P]

If there were a God it would be Undertaker, Angle, Jericho, Michaels, Muto, Hogan, Rock, Onita and Foley.

 

I voted for 5 of them, and I don't even disagree. Well, I think Foley deserves the top 100 though.

 

Hey, Chiggy ! We barely knew you.

[Gregor]

If you go back a couple months ago into the thread of Highly Touted Workers Who Won't Make Your List, one of the names I mentioned for myself was Malenko. At the time people dismissed it, saying that Malenko doesn't get much love here. But I believe on a podcast even Will discussed him as someone he was ranking or at least considering.

"People" didn't dismiss it. I was the only one who said anything about it. Given that this very thread had its own sub-discussion about how Malenko's relatively high placement doesn't match the way people here talk about him, I'm not exactly feeling like I misjudged the character of the site.

 

Triple H finished four spots ahead, and even now if someone said that he gets a lot of love here I wouldn't agree. Actually, he's gotten more praise than Malenko has, but that might have to do with the fact that criticism of him here is stronger and more frequent than Malenko criticism.

[Danish Dynamite]

I've got Foley on my list. Relatively low. And I'm sure that if my general taste was less North American and more, say, lucha or whatever, he might have been exchanged with El Multi Masca Sangria or something. Sure, some might find it boring voting for the broader known names. But to me there's a big difference between: "Voting for that guy is boring" and "That guy's work is boring". The second statement I find a totally valid argument for not voting for someone. The first however... I know the criteria was left totally open (and I support that 100%), but for my part I can say that whether or not my picks were boring, totally original or anywhere in between had no influence on me what-so-ever. I voted for the 100 (or... 98 at least...) guys I have found to be the wrestlers that I as of april 2016 find to be the greatest. ... I hope my list changes over the next years (or even months...) because that means I've discovered or people have pointed me to wrestling and wrestlers that I find to be even better then the ones I already love!

[Cap]

The whole list feels like it has a little pep in its step now.

 

Well played putting HHH in the KENTA picture. Sting finishing a little higher feels somehow like a very small degree of justice for that shitshow at last year's mania.

 

Ok, enough about HHH.

 

That is a great point about Chigusa in the notes. She has an incredibly fun and impressive career, and i really only have started sampling her work. Jaguar Yokoda is someone I am really excited to get to know more about soon, same with Pirata. We are really into the business end of the list.