Reactions to the List: 100-51

[Loss]

I know it's possible in theory, but how do you watch a lot of Han without seeing any Tamura? What specific matches are being watched in that case?

[Dylan Waco]

Han strikes me as a guy who comes across as the "bare minimum" vote for people who didn't want to leave shootstyle off all together, but didn't have time, know where else to go, or want to dig deeper into it.

[Jimmy Redman]

I know it's possible in theory, but how do you watch a lot of Han without seeing any Tamura? What specific matches are being watched in that case?

Not that someone hasn't seen ANY Tamura, but maybe they've seen many Han matches, but the only Tamura they've seen is vs Han and that's not enough. That's what I mean.

[JKWebb]

Good timing for Samoa Joe to hit today. He made my list around this area. Joe was one of the best wrestlers in 2005, and actually made that the only era of TNA enjoyable to me. I love his matches with Punk, AJ, Kobashi, and all the way up to the Takeover Dallas main event (I really thought his performance saved that match and was truly great). He has a great level of intensity. Nice to see him here.

[MoS]

Wait, has Punk not dropped yet? A top 60 position for him is way too high imo.

[JKWebb]

Wait, has Punk not dropped yet? A top 60 position for him is way too high imo.

I guess it depends on if you did your list based on in-ring work alone, or included the other aspects of being a great wrestler. I thought of his ability to connect with the audience and amazing promo skills. I ranked him higher than this. He does have great matches as well, so I wouldn't say he's "way too high" yet... Just my opinion...

[soup23]

Honest question: Do any of those who voted Han higher or didn't vote for Tamura think Han had a better non-Tamura match than Tamura had with Vader?

 

I don't think that is even close to Tamura's best non-Han match.

[GOTNW]

 

 

 

 

I nominate Steven to be the one to tell Han that his hair is goofy.

Is he on twitter? I'm not going to Russia.

Sadly, no. I sought him out to share Dave's deep dive on his career and he isn't out there.

 

Although maybe he's reading this right now because days after we posted the videos started getting copyright claims and it's a wasteland of Volk on YouTube now in comparison.

Volk Han has a twitter. Ask Lord Mo to hook you up (that's his twitter handle and he was the other #1 Han voter).

[Loss]

 

Honest question: Do any of those who voted Han higher or didn't vote for Tamura think Han had a better non-Tamura match than Tamura had with Vader?

 

I don't think that is even close to Tamura's best non-Han match.

 

 

Yeah, almost definitely not even in Tamura's top ten, although Han did surpass the Vader match without Tamura.

[Matt D]

 

Wait, has Punk not dropped yet? A top 60 position for him is way too high imo.

I guess it depends on if you did your list based on in-ring work alone, or included the other aspects of being a great wrestler. I thought of his ability to connect with the audience and amazing promo skills. I ranked him higher than this. He does have great matches as well, so I wouldn't say he's "way too high" yet... Just my opinion...

 

I feel like this might distract from the broader issue at hand. Let's say Punk gets 100 votes. From the discussion we've had here, I could see 10 of those factoring in his promos, maybe less. That goes back to the anonymity and latecomers, of course, but the wild majority of people voting in this process indicated here that they were voting on ringwork based on footage alone.

 

I think it's more productive to look at what in ring aspects people might have voted Punk this high on.

[anarchistxx]

CM Punk as a worker is much inferior to Samoa Joe, in my opinion. Joe is on another level when watching them in ROH side by side. Probably a good example of better worker vs better career, though, since Punk has ended up with probably the better resume and certainly a much longer peak.

[Grimmas]

I had Punk over Joe. The way he portrayed his character in ring and made big matches feel huge was a big plus. Plus he was great from 2003-2013. While Joe was great from 2002-2006. Of course that is TNA's fault, not his, but still.

[soup23]

I was out yesterday when Tamura dropped but in the last five years of wrestling, he has been the greatest discovery for me. The only person in the ballpark is Satanico. When I first started getting tapes 15 years ago, Volk Han had that rep and was someone that was so hyped. I got the Han comp off Tabe along with the highly pimped Takada UWFi stuff and was left really cold. It was really a style I had not become acclimated too. Even when I started plowing through the 90's, I viewed Tamura as the guy that gave the fun underdog match with Vader in 1994 and was someone I was watching have a shoot fight with Sakuraba after their legit heat years before. Gradually, it became more than that. It started with the 1997 match with Han which is just a great wizardly match of finesse and skill. Then I watched the Kohsaka match from April and was still confused. I have rewatched that match since but still am unsure whether it was a work or not. That has become one of the more enduring attributes with Tamura is that and the other discussion about the 1999 match still make me believe in the uncertainty of the con. Throughout the year, we see him take down and have entertaining skirmishes with the foreign RINGS masters, another great match with Han and he caps it off with a great passing of the torch match with Maeda. Then we get 1998-1999 where I can only see Kobashi as a candidate for a best wrestler in the world and Kobashi was more flawed in that period in certain performances like the 6/99 Misawa match. Tamura was firing on all cylinders and had two ***** matches and three matches in my top 10 for the year in 1998. That was when I knew Tamura was my favorite shoot style worker ever. As I dug dipper into the early part of his career (Thanks Elliot!) and the later U-Style stuff, he really is someone that had a good match almost every time out on tape. Granted that is a really short sample size but it is an amazing feat to be that good in match #1. Akiyama is considered a phenom and that is appropriate, but Tamura was as better right out of the gate. The U-Style stuff showed he could have legit great matches with people that don't have that resume elsewhere. I ranked Tamura #9 and honestly besides Flair, Misawa, and Kobashi, he was the only other candidate I flirted with for #1. His critiques are easy to point out in his longevity (although he does have great matches 15 years apart) and short matches to point to, but man was he an amazing athlete that also had a flair for the dramatic making him a spectacular shoot style worker.

[Lee Casebolt]

 

I nominate Steven to be the one to tell Han that his hair is goofy.

Is he on twitter? I'm not going to Russia.

 

 

You can find him on Facebook.

[concrete1992]

Is there a running list of who is left on the Big Board?

[Jimmy Redman]

If anyone makes one could they put it behind spoiler tags? I know it's not a secret, but I don't want to see all the names at once, it will kill the surprise somewhat.

[Beast]

Here's who is left....

 

 

AJ Styles
Aja Kong
Akira Hokuto
Akira Taue
Andre The Giant
Arn Anderson
Barry Windham
Bill Dundee
Billy Robinson
Bobby Eaton
Bret Hart
Brock Lesnar
Buddy Rose
Chris Benoit
CM Punk
Curt Hennig
Daniel Bryan
Dick Murdoch
Dustin Rhodes
Eddie Guerrero
El Dandy
El Hijo Del Santo
Fit Finlay
Genichiro Tenryu
Greg Valentine
Harley Race
Jerry Lawler
Jim Breaks
John Cena
Jumbo Tsuruta
Jun Akiyama
Jushin Liger
Mick Foley
Mitsuharu Misawa
Negro Casas
Nick Bockwinkel
Owen Hart
Randy Savage
Rey Misterio Jr.
Ric Flair
Rick Martel
Ricky Morton
Ricky Steamboat
Riki Choshu
Satanico
Shawn Michaels
Shinya Hashimoto
Stan Hansen
Steve Austin
Tatsumi Fujinami
Ted Dibiase
Terry Funk
Toshiaki Kawada
Tully Blanchard
Vader
William Regal
Yoshiaki Fujiwara

 

plus one more ????

 

 

[soup23]

El Texano huh?

[soup23]

Also, after looking at the list, I really think Andre is the worst of the lot.

[Beast]

El Texano huh?

 

Just checked and I guess he wasnt nominated despite being in the top 150 last time. Means I'm short one guy and not sure who it is...

[Matt D]

I've got ~41 left which isn't so bad considering how goofy my list is.

[Beast]

Owen Hart should be dropping by the end of the day, right? If people thought Pillman was too high....

[kjh]

Joe being ranked above Han just feels wrong.

[Jimmy Redman]

I've got ~41 left which isn't so bad considering how goofy my list is.

I have 46 left. I feel like I'm losing by being less goofy.

 

Parv and co. are competing for who has the most conservative ballot. We're like the opposite.

[Matt D]

I went #10 on Virus, and I think people could find that just as dubious as someone going #10 on Owen, so I'm hardly in a place to talk (even if I think there's a much stronger case for Virus).