TannerT Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Honestly surprised to be half the high vote for Jun Akiyama at #3, seems like he has gotten way more traction over the years and thought someone would give him their #1 or #2 spot just based on how great he's been for so long now, dude has had a hell of a career and even continues to kill it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Bret had 1/3 the career of Akiyama at best, but he did have cool sunglasses As a kid I was so frustrated I got onto the game late and could only get the pink plastic shades things and not the silver ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Fucking mainstream Japanese bias moved him up 23 spots from 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I don't have any real problem with Akiyama ranking below the other All Japan guys in the sense that I can see arguments for pretty much any order you can come up with, but it would've been nice to see some recognition for his ridiculous longevity compared to the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Fucking mainstream Japanese bias moved him up 23 spots from 2006. can you stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKWebb Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I wish I had voted Akiyama higher in retrospect, but cool he moved up 23 spots from 2006... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I see it as a matter of the value of modern puro that isn't hip and the nature of the way we watch wrestling as well. I've seen all the pimped Akiyama matches that have been lost to time and GAORA TV copyright strikes. He also has about 20 years of his career well preserved, but even then a lot of stuff from the final years of that run has been lost as well. I imagine there's a significant amount of people that didn't pay much attention to his (still ongoing) All Japan 2010s run. I do think more comparison threads should have been done to let some cases sink in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Fucking mainstream Japanese bias moved him up 23 spots from 2006. can you stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 One thought I had about Akiyama just the other day (while watching a random 10 minute 2016 AJPW house show 6 man) is that he might be the greatest non-Mexican 6/8 man tag worker ever. Just a great 'directing traffic' guy that lifts everything he's involved in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Fucking mainstream Japanese bias moved him up 23 spots from 2006. Mainstream japanese bias is preventing Akiyama from being higher. People remember him as the sixth best guy from All Japan when he was three years into his career and rank him based on that when the bulk of his case is working on NOAH house shows and now in front of 100 people that Meltzer and the hip kids don't pay much attention to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookysaku Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Akiyama and Taue huh?.... time for Arn and Regal to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted April 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Who gives a shit, Taue was in the same spot as 2006!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I don't really see an argument for Taue over Akiyama for people that know both their careers well and *get* them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Is Taue the only one whose rank has remained unchanged from 2006? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Bock and Casas survive another day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Who gives a shit, Taue was in the same spot as 2006!!!!!!!!!! And if ANYONE on the planet's rank not changing is hilarious, it's Taue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Ahhh I'm just so glad Bret made the top 25. That was good enough for me and any spot higher just makes it sweeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I don't really see an argument for Taue over Akiyama for people that know both their careers well and *get* them. If you value peak over duration of quality, you could argue Taue peaked higher and had more all time classic level matches. I had Taue at 20 and Jun at 9, while top quarter finish would have been ideal, I am glad they ended up relatively high. Also, Regal in Top 25 is a pleasant surprise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravJ1979 Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 So 19 of the Top 25 were in my Top 25. Not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I don't really see an argument for Taue over Akiyama for people that know both their careers well and *get* them. That's an odd statement. They're very different wrestlers, and it seems entirely reasonable for someone to prefer one guy's aesthetic over the other. Taue was part of arguably the greatest tag team of all time. He was in a top five All Japan singles match of the '90s and a key part of the greatest tag matches in the history of that or any other promotion. He was still awesome as late as 2006. I can see an argument for Akiyama on duration of quality and ability to hop roles, but to suggest there's no argument for Taue is just bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eegah Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I had Taue at 25 so yay there. Akiyama is a guy I love but havent seen a lot of his ladder 2000s work. Even based on all the 90s stuff and early 2000s I had him 34. I think he has one of the biggest chances to rocket up my list outside of guys in styles that Im still discovering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 With Santo falling at 29, I'm not sure Casas will make top 15, which I would have expected a few days ago. If we take the "styles" considered for the poll as fact, 76% of the voters considered Lucha, that's 115 ballots tops. I still think Casas makes it to the top 10 but he's gonna need a really high average vote and top 3 votes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 There are at least 2 #2 votes for Casas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I mean I can *see* an argument for Taue, I just obviously don't agree with it. And I see that argument as being heavily skewed to highlight the things he excelled that. If you do the same in Akiyama's favour it's a no contest. Sure, you could argue Kawada-Taue was the greatest tag ever. And the reasoning for that is that 90s All Japan had the best tag team wrestking ever and they were together for the longest. I don't even think that's a very important point here, as the discussion is about Taue specifically and not Holy Demon Army. I could point to at least three different tag teams with Akiyama in them I thought were legitimately great tag teams where he was often the best performer. I don't really buy Taue being a.better tag team wrestler than Akiyama. Again you would have to ignore consistency and heavily favour peak and even then I'm not so sure I'd agree with it. Taue peaked at a time when better wrestlers than the one Akiyama worked alongside in his prime peaked. And EVEN THEN I'm not convinced. Akiyama is in the tag picture from 1996 onwards. Taue is good from 1990 but achieves greatness in 1995. Taue still has great stuff in 2006-true-but it is more sporadic and can't even begin to compare to what Akiyama was doing at the same time. For Taue the window of good wrestling can be 1990-2006 but in that you have both the question of how good he was before 1995 and how consistent his output was in NOAH. Akiyama's window of good wrestling is 1992-now. He has a small slump around 2008-2009 or so but compared to Taue I'm not sure it's even worth mentioning. You could argue Akiyama was in a top 5 All Japan 90s match as well. I know Akiyama-Kobashi 98 is my #1 and Akiyama-Misawa 2/27 would be a strong contender as well (pre-split counts). I mean you can always make a case for wrestler x over wrestler y but for people that truly dive into the stuff and appreciate them both (hint-I do) I don't think it's close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 And on the resume-building front, Casas & Santo are polar opposites since 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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