BrianB Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Getting people out to vote when your two choices are two of the most disliked candidates of all time is not an easy thing to accomplish. Nope, it's not. But Trump's side did it well-enough and retained most republican voters and they turned out. Plus, if so many people are really dying of anxiety because of immigration, muslim, abortion, LBGT issues, repealing obamacare, etc, and very concerned about the supreme court, then what were they doing sitting out? Bush vs. Kerry wasn't that long ago--some people sat out then that shouldn't have--and we got the worst Bush term of the two by far. This was foreseeable. The polling was not Clinton with a national 10 point lead. It was in the same range as the Brexit polling that shocked everyone, and in the swing states it was even closer than the national average by a point or two. But some people seemed to prefer to keep their hands clean, rather than making a responsible choice, and opted to keep churning out their hot take opinions, outrage policing, and meme quips all over social media, then act horrified that we got Trump? Sure, next time, people hopefully won't don't do the perfectionist fallacy, and voters nominate a candidate that isn't terrible and actually inspires the base. However, it's not like people weren't on notice about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Getting people out to vote when your two choices are two of the most disliked candidates of all time is not an easy thing to accomplish. Nope, it's not. But Trump's side did it well-enough and retained most republican voters and they turned out. Plus, if so many people are really dying of anxiety because of immigration, muslim, abortion, LBGT issues,etc, and very concerned about the supreme court, then what were they doing sitting out? Bush vs. Kerry wasn't that long ago--some people sat out then that shouldn't have--and we got the worst Bush term of the two by far. This was foreseeable. The polling was not Clinton with a national 10 point lead. It was in the same range as the Brexit polling that shocked everyone, and in the swing states it was even closer than the national average by a point or two. But some people seemed to prefer to keep their hands clean, rather than making a responsible choice, and opted to keep churning out their hot take opinions, outrage policing, and meme quips all over social media, then act horrified that we got Trump? Sure, next time, people hopefully won't don't do the perfectionist fallacy, and voters nominate a candidate that isn't terrible and actually inspires the base. However, it's not like people weren't on notice about this. Why do you think the ones that are so scared didn't vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianB Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Why do you think the ones that are so scared didn't vote? . Depends on the group to an extent I suspect, but in a nutshell: too much in-fighting and purity testing. Hillary's history didn't help either. They wanted change they could believe in and she's not a convincing vessel for that message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Oh, come on. An election result, even one involving someone as horrific as Trump, is not a traumatic event on par with being sexually assaulted or serving in combat. If it's having that kind of impact on you, you need to seek professional help and not expect the world to accommodate your neuroses. Yep, being told your own country hates you is no reason to feel impacted at all. Trump won thanks to swing voters who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012, so this isn't the conclusion to draw from the election at all. Stating that the parallels between this election and 1930s Germany are "pretty strong" is really out-there hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 That's easy to say if you have nothing to lose. This is a man who wants to jail his political opponents and has threatened to change libel laws so he can shut out the media. He has a white supremacist as his chief strategist. It's not hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 The context of 1930s Germany is a recent history of intense partisan political violence, intense global economic depression, a political system viewed as fundamentally illegitimate (in a way majorly different than any similar statement you can make about the US political system), real anti-Communist paranoia and a major party openly espousing doctrines of aggressive racial superiority and advocating the end of liberal democracy. You can be troubled about Trump's win and the context in which it occurred but to claim it has "strong parallels" to 1930s Germany is a huge(yuge) overstatement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianB Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 That's easy to say if you have nothing to lose. This is a man who wants to jail his political opponents and has threatened to change libel laws so he can shut out the media. He has a white supremacist as his chief strategist. It's not hyperbole. Yet the current economy is not in nearly as bad a state as the Weimar Republic was, Trump is not a leader of his political party in the same way Hitler was. Additionally, he's already facing push-back internally on some of his campaign promises, such as the deportation force. He needs the support of Congress to get most things done. That doesn't mean he still won't try and be much more combative than Obama was, just saying there are more checks on him. At the moment, I'd say the closer historical parallel is 1968 with Nixon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Trump is Berlusconi. Nothing more. Let's get real now people. Post traumatic counselling. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Seeing the legit fear from folks on my Facebook feed the days after the election who would be directly impacted by Trump's policy has kind of soured me on the typical white dude "buck up buttercup" responses. Yeah, Cletus you can make fun of people being upset when you're not #1 on his list to strip rights from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 "Several reliable, well-informed sources confirmed the idea that Hitler's anti-Semitism was not so genuine or violent as it sounded, and that he was merely using anti-Semitic propaganda as a bait to catch masses of followers and keep them aroused, enthusiastic, and in line for the time when his organization is perfected and sufficiently powerful to be employed effectively for political purposes." -- New York Times, 11/21/1922 Perhaps the parallels aren't "really strong", but they are very much there. And there have been enough violent incidents that his supporters took a return to pre-civil rights social order literally. And if anything, the other people in his administration and his party scare me possibly more than he does. I don't expect a man who signed a law in his state that required women to bury or cremate aborted or miscarried fetuses or who tried to re-funnel federal dollars for AIDS to gay conversion therapy to be a reasonable check on Trump's more insane ideas. Anyway, I'll stop talking about this because it's too personal for me. If you knew the legal hoops my husband and I had to jump through to get married, have two children and both have full legal custody of them, you would probably understand the legitimate fear much more. I don't want to close out the thread just because I personally have nothing else to say, but I am hoping it dies off soon. I've gotten too far from pro wrestling and I'm sorry that I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Loss don't worry, listen to the two European straight white dudes, stop whining you will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 I haven't seen the clip so I cannot comment on that, but it never fails to amuse me how so many anti-PC people whine and moan and complain the absolute most, without a shred of self-awareness. "OH NOE THEY SAID HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND NOT JUST MERRY CHRISTMAS OMG THIS NATION IS DYING!!" "HOW DARE HE INSULT THE AMERICAN FLAG HORRIBLE MAN FIRE HIM!!" And yeah, saying Trump stands for free speech when he has an actual history of filing lawsuits whenever there is criticism of him or when people say mean - and petty, to be fair - things about him, and when one of the first things he is doing as President-elect is changing a lot of media protocol to give them less freedom to operate as well as changing libel laws to ensure there isn't much criticism of him, is so mind-fucking I don't even know what to say. A lot of these people probably support the Parents' Council and do not like "ass" or "tits" being used on TV either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 EDIT *nevermind* I won't feed a troll in 2016. Of course Trump is a catastrophy. Who said otherwise ? For fuck's sake. (and yeah, having friends living in countries that one might call dictatorships, to me trauma counselling at unis after an election is fucking laughable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 To get back to the point I was trying to make, most conservatives aren't opposed to political correctness because they oppose civility or support bigotry. It's because they see it as a tool to delegitimize non-leftist viewpoints by declaring them to be outside the bounds of acceptable discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 I haven't seen the clip so I cannot comment on that, but it never fails to amuse me how so many anti-PC people whine and moan and complain the absolute most, without a shred of self-awareness. "OH NOE THEY SAID HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND NOT JUST MERRY CHRISTMAS OMG THIS NATION IS DYING!!" Yep. Many of the "toxic" effects of PC culture result solely from the anti-PC crowd's ridiculously exaggerated overreactions to everything. PC culture has its flaws but the irrational and blind hatred of it has contributed to many of the developments seen today in society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 I just want to say that I'm not saying people shouldn't be upset or that they shouldn't be scared because the situation is absolutely terrifying. I've been upset and in tears several times in the past week and I don't even live there. But those things are private and should remain private. What I and many others would baulk at is the idea idea of institutions like universities putting on "crying in" sessions for people to hug it out together. That sort of shit is just lamentable and genuinely deserves to be stamped on until it never happens again. This is exactly the sort of thing that makes people literally despise the left. Cry in your own space, put on a brave face -- just like Obama has done -- and then think and think seriously about how we are going to combat this fucked up mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Some people are seriously concerned because the historical parallels to 1930s Germany are pretty strong. I don't really think we're going to repeat history, but people who worry about their families being split up through deportation, who themselves worry about being deported, who worry that they are going to have to enter a Muslim registry or that their marriage will be invalidated by his Supreme Court appointee, thus affecting their healthcare, property and in some cases rights to their children, are right to be scared. He's made clear what he wants to do. How does play-doh, coloring books, and safety pins do anything to ease these fears, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Some people are seriously concerned because the historical parallels to 1930s Germany are pretty strong. I don't really think we're going to repeat history, but people who worry about their families being split up through deportation, who themselves worry about being deported, who worry that they are going to have to enter a Muslim registry or that their marriage will be invalidated by his Supreme Court appointee, thus affecting their healthcare, property and in some cases rights to their children, are right to be scared. He's made clear what he wants to do. How does play-doh, coloring books, and safety pins do anything to ease these fears, though? It gives people an outlet to relieve stress, which is an important part of mental health and when people mock it, it sends a message that you should just internalize everything which tends to not be healthy. The safety pin thing was just a form of silent protest as far as a I can gather. Just to let the world know you aren't down for this bullshit about to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 I don't see how play-dohs help, but puppies are great! When I was on exchange in America for a semester, they had a "bring your pet to college" day and it was so weird but also so great haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Some people are seriously concerned because the historical parallels to 1930s Germany are pretty strong. I don't really think we're going to repeat history, but people who worry about their families being split up through deportation, who themselves worry about being deported, who worry that they are going to have to enter a Muslim registry or that their marriage will be invalidated by his Supreme Court appointee, thus affecting their healthcare, property and in some cases rights to their children, are right to be scared. He's made clear what he wants to do. How does play-doh, coloring books, and safety pins do anything to ease these fears, though? It gives people an outlet to relieve stress, which is an important part of mental health and when people mock it, it sends a message that you should just internalize everything which tends to not be healthy. The safety pin thing was just a form of silent protest as far as a I can gather. Just to let the world know you aren't down for this bullshit about to happen. People are mocking it because you're giving adults play-doh and coloring books to work out their issues with the election. That's ridiculous. Having gathering and talking about things like adults? Makes perfect sense. This type of infantilization is exactly why these people can't understand how their side didn't win since they were on the good side and good always wins. The pins are for white people to let people of color and religious minorities know that they aren't racist. Which means absolutely dick. Go get involved with your community, go to BLM protests, go do charity work and out reach programs. The safety pin is the peak of of self congratulatory bullshit that is allows white people to feel morally superior without having to actually do any work. A silent protest means absolutely nothing when you're the group least impacted by what you're protesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 The thing is, most of the folks reaching for coloring books aren't Mexicans at risk of being deported, LGBT at risk of having their families split up, or other marginalized groups. They're white students from comfortable backgrounds. The trauma they're reacting to is the existence of contrary viewpoints. People like that are completely useless in a fight against Trump and what he stands for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 ^ ^ this. Funny, when I think about it, depending of the context and the issue, I can be thrown in both derogatory category (anti-PC crowd / SJW). Ignorant and judgemental people are usually the ones who talk louder, on both sides. But it always only benefits the extreme. Always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 And to get back to the topic, can anyone link the clip of Styles incident ? Can't seem to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Mark Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Trump won because of Obama's economic policies. Obama is the only President to have under 2 % growth every quarter . Jobs are being shipped out to Mexico and Asia due to high taxes and over regulation . The end result is that people that had jobs that paid $ 40 to 60, 000 per year are now mowing lawns , hauling gravel and picking scrap metal off the highway. Health insurance cost have sky rocketed under Obama. I pay for my own coverage and the cost has jumped from $ 200 to $ 400 per month. I was scheduled to receive another increase of 68% next fall . This is a problem because I have only had one pay raise in ten years. I am making less money than I made 20 years ago. This is a common story. I am of British heritage . Now according to the left if I vote for my own economic needs instead of the needs of illegal aliens or the third world , I am a racist . As far as the illegals aliens go we do need to get that situation under control . We have more than enough crime in America , we do not need to import crime . All criminal illegal aliens need to be deported right now. Also we do not need to let terrorists in our country. We need to save the lives of our own people , so what if the left gets offended. We do need a guest visa program that works for foreign tech and/or seasonal workers. Any other illegals need to become citizens or leave . Every that works in America should income taxes , social security and follow the laws of the land. Equal rights should apply to all citizens.Many illegal workers are working on a cash basis and have undercut the labor market , while not paying taxes. People who are living here illegal but are solid citizens do need a path a citizenship. Every must pay their fair share and follow the law, not break the law and make excuses. That why I voted for Trump. He is the lesser of two evils . The reality is that he will not deport millions , not possible. I just want the criminals gone gone and every to operate under the same economic and legal rules. Equal right for all , not special rights a chosen few. If people would not be a slave to their own twisted political views , left or right , we could all move society forward . As for Joey, Gabe fired him because is upset about the election . Just check out his twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Now its definitely time to close this thing up. Fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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