Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4

[sek69]

The thing is even when there was a backlash from the fans against Cena, he was always going over strong and was the clear top guy. He wasn't booked to have multiple "coronations" as the top guy that would end up getting changed at the last minute. Roman was dangerously close to getting the Lex Luger treatment and getting stuck as the guy who gets a million chances to win the big one and always comes up short until the Head of the Table run started. 

Personally I think Roman is a better performer than Cena, but I get that Cena's whole deal was mostly aimed at kids so I wasn't the target audience for what he was going for. 

[Laz]

On 6/28/2021 at 3:58 PM, The Thread Killer said:

Cornette says...that the idea of using the concept regularly is "fucking stupid."

Yes. This explains why SMW was known as THE promotion of the 90s, and why Corny is considered a surefire ticket to print money as a booker.

[strobogo]

Roman is most definitely a better in ring guy than Cena ever was. And he has been his whole singles run since 2014. Some real dogshit booking, though, which is pretty common to....well, all top WWE babyfaces in all eras.

[Strummer]

It's probably not fair (but understandable i guess) but Roman's 2015-2020 babyface run is always going to be looked at as a failure to a degree. It wasn't his fault and the crowd booed Cena during his run as well but many remember that time as primarily wwe  not listening to their audience.

i mean obviously Cena sold more merch and has the Rock matches business wise but you can't rate wrestlers like that anymore in the tv rights era where the money is there no matter what/who is on top

[Coffey]

When was Hulk Hogan at his biggest, physically? I know he was billed as 6'8", 303 lbs for a long time but I assume that was worked. Obviously it had to have been before the WWF steroid trial or when he went to WCW. He looked enormous in Rocky III but I think a lot of that was because of how small Stallone is. Was he bigger in AWA than he was in WWF? Even at the start of Hulkamania? I know he was gassed to the gills & huge during most of his run but he was always working guys like André, Bundy, Gang, 'Quake, etc. so he didn't look as huge on TV a lot of the time when compared to someone like Warlord that was working guys like Tito.

[PeteF3]

I feel like WrestleMania IV-V is Hogan at his physical peak. It was definitely Savage at his.

[Hawkeye12]

On 7/5/2021 at 10:02 PM, Coffey said:

When was Hulk Hogan at his biggest, physically? I know he was billed as 6'8", 303 lbs for a long time but I assume that was worked. Obviously it had to have been before the WWF steroid trial or when he went to WCW. He looked enormous in Rocky III but I think a lot of that was because of how small Stallone is. Was he bigger in AWA than he was in WWF? Even at the start of Hulkamania? I know he was gassed to the gills & huge during most of his run but he was always working guys like André, Bundy, Gang, 'Quake, etc. so he didn't look as huge on TV a lot of the time when compared to someone like Warlord that was working guys like Tito.

Definitely his first WWF run with Blassie.  Even by the time he got to the AWA and turned babyface, he'd started to slim down in the waist and stomach.  Part of that may have just been he was wrestling more (and longer) matches, so probably doing more cardio whether by design or not.  By Earthquake he'd already been off the gas for maybe two years (based on the steroid trial evidence and testimony), really didn't look any bigger than any of the other body guys on the roster, many who were also in the same position of dropping mass.  He never regained the mass after that, although he did lean out and look really cut here and there especially his NWO run.  Don't think he was ever really 6'8", probably 6'6" at his peak but it's so hard to tell with boots on.

[strobogo]

There's no way Hogan was off the gas by 1988-1989. He had noticeably dropped size and bloat between Rumble 1992 and WM 8 and was way lighter when he came back in 1993 and his WCW, but definitely was still on gear in 1988-1991.

 

He also got pretty big again by the end of his WCW run and was definitely back on something in his WWE return but was working and eating better so he didn't have the huge puffiness to him that he had during his peak Hulkamania run. I personally would really doubt he ever was fully off anything. 

[Strummer]

Hogan was freaking gigantic in late 89/early 90. When he comes back after shooting Suburban Commando to feud with Earthquake in summer 90 he looks smaller and would pretty much maintain that look until he left after Mania 8. Of course when he comes back in 93 he is noticeably much smaller 

[sek69]

Seems like perhaps he switched his "vitamins" at some point, since he went from bloated looking to leaner but still jacked at some point in the late 80s. 

[Coffey]

Wrestlemania VI with Warrior is April 1990 & he's still pretty huge there but I do think he was bigger before that. So I feel like 88'-'89 might be right on the nose. It's crazy to me that that was over thirty years ago now. I remember how hype I was to get that Pay-Per-View. Back in the days when you had to go to the cable company & get the box to hook up to your TV to get the show. 

[Al]

15 hours ago, Hawkeye12 said:

Definitely his first WWF run with Blassie.  Even by the time he got to the AWA and turned babyface, he'd started to slim down in the waist and stomach.  Part of that may have just been he was wrestling more (and longer) matches, so probably doing more cardio whether by design or not.  By Earthquake he'd already been off the gas for maybe two years (based on the steroid trial evidence and testimony), really didn't look any bigger than any of the other body guys on the roster, many who were also in the same position of dropping mass.  He never regained the mass after that, although he did lean out and look really cut here and there especially his NWO run.  Don't think he was ever really 6'8", probably 6'6" at his peak but it's so hard to tell with boots on.

Something I notice with other wrestlers of that era. Guys like Larry Zbyszko and Ivan Putski are built like bodybuilders. Even Backlund. I think that might be attributable to Bruno's influence. Into the mid-80s wrestlers are opting for body-building looks rather than power-lifting. I don't know if early Hogan was biggest, but probably thickest.

[funkdoc]

Someone on Youtube has comps of WWF TV by month, and the January '96 one was especially interesting to me for how many of the goofiest gimmicks from '95 were still around.  I mean, Isaac Yankem & Rad Radford...

What really stood out was how some of those gimmicks got completely buried as part of the transition to new talent.  Makin' a Difference Fatu got beaten in like 10 seconds by goddamn Justin Hawk Bradshaw!

The best example of this was King Mabel.  People usually point to the casket match with Taker as the end of his push, but i'd actually argue it was a Jan '96 RAW where he got matched up vs. Diesel.  He ate a big boot or something lame like that and, again, got pinned in less than 10 seconds.  The true final nail in the coffin, imo

[MoS]

Bruno was built like a powerlifter/strongman though, not a bodybuilder, even though I think he did participate in some bodybuilding contests early in his career. The powerlifter/strongman look was prevalent in wrestling until about the mid-70s.

I am not sure how standards in bodybuilding evolved, but I was listening to a John Cena eYada interview with Meltzer from 2001 where he was talking about how the fed felt that big 80s guys didn't have good bodies by current standards because they were not as careful with their diet and therefore were not very cut or proportionate. Hogan exemplifies that more than anyone; he arguably actually had a better body in some of his later WCW years. He wasn't as massive and didn't look like a Krypton citizen, but he was more shredded and his muscles were more prominent

[strobogo]

Yeah Bruno and Larry Z having body builder bodies confused me, too. Those dudes were both just thick ass strong guys with zero cuts or definition. Ricky Steamboat had a body builder look. Warrior had a body builder look. Bruno and Larry looked like guys who lifted heavy and drank beer and ate pasta every day. 

[Al]

I meant to say powerlifting in my first sentence.

[funkdoc]

This is an interesting topic bc in the fitness world in general, it feels like the powerlifting sort of body has been making a comeback in recent years.  People are realizing bodybuilding isn't really useful for actual athleticism on top of being ridiculously hard to maintain.  In particular i see a lot more athletic women nowadays embrace some degree of thickness, often talking about how it was their way out of eating disorders and such.

idk, just hit me since i've been in the process of rehabbing my back to get into powerlifting myself

[DMJ]

The rumor mill is churning with news that CM Punk is in negotiations for an in-ring return, specifically for AEW.

I'm wondering if maybe this news leak is a negotiating tactic for WWE to produce a higher offer or what.

I also read some hubbub that Punk reached out to the WWE for a return last year but they shot him down, which I find hard to believe. McMahon's booking MO for the past 10 years has been nostalgia-heavy and if you're looking at the biggest stars of yesteryear, Punk is right up there. Maybe Punk was asking for "Lesnar Money" and Vince didn't want to cough it up...but then again, with Punk, I'm guessing you'd get considerably more dates and what I assume would amount to be serious $$$ in terms of merchandise (unless, again, Punk wanted a larger share of that too). 

I know CM Punk is not everyone's favorite anything these days, but I'm hoping he does opt to go to AEW and do think that he'd be a good signing just because of the name value. He's someone like a Jeff Hardy or RVD where he undeniably made a connection with lots of fans and those fans are loyal to him. A big comeback match with the right opponent is going to draw a house and probably bump a buyrate at least a little bit. Keep in mind, his UFC debut did above projections (to the tune of something like 500k-600k buys?) so its not totally unreasonable to think he could help AEW score an additional 50k+ more buyers than usual, maybe even more?

[NintendoLogic]

Also, Vince loves to bring former enemies back into the fold. Levesque is more the type to hold grudges, but he seems to have lost much of his power.

Like I said in the AEW thread, there's a good chance WWE is leaking this as a preemptive strike after being unable to come to terms with Punk. If AEW signs him, they'll have spoiled the surprise. If they don't, it'll be a letdown. It's a win-win for them.

[MoS]

When did tapping out become the default way to submit in WWF? ECW was doing it for years but I don't remember exactly when WWF switched to doing it exclusively. It certainly was not the default at Montreal

[Blehschmidt]

Did it become a thing when Ken Shamrock came in?

[MoS]

Yeah I think people were tapping out to his ankle lock. Was nodding yes to submit completely phased out after Montreal?

[TheDuke]

I was watching the july 12 1993 episode of Raw and there was a match between Mr Hughes and Tony Devito being used as a jobber. Anyway when Tony Devito was announced, Vince on commentary claimed Tony was first cousins with Basil Devito. I couldnt find anything about this online so I assume it was a rib, because what fans in 1993 would know who Basil Devito was? Still I found it amusing.

 

 

 

[NintendoLogic]

Deathmatch wrestling and moronic fans: name a more iconic duo.

[MoS]

I mean, deathmatch wrestling isn't for me, but that does look like proper, pissed off wrestling heat. Matt Cardona is genuinely the devil for that group of fans, this reaction was absolutely organic. 

I am not saying thay throwing stuff in the ring should be encouraged, but if it does happen once every while, I don't think it's an embarrassing reaction at all. To use the obvious example, Hogan's heel turn. Of course WCW later started actively encouraging fans to throw stuff in the ring, which they shouldn't have. But I don't think GCW fans do that for every show. From what I understand, Matt Cardona is a special case. He couldn't be a more natural enemy of deathmatch wrestlers if he tried