DMJ Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Legitimately surprised that people hated the Bayley/Charlotte match. I thought it was terrific. Another great performance out of Charlotte and I thought Bayley, while not the most technically proficient worker, continues to make me want to see her fire up and start clubbering. When Cena or Reigns or whoever is taking a beating, I'm just waiting for them to "get their shit in" because that's how their matches always go. With Bayley, the hope spots are well-earned and emotional and, while her offense sometimes seems like it's buffering, I can get caught up in her struggle and believe that it's because she's so full of emotion, she can't think straight. I also thought the finish worked - Bayley didn't cheat, Sasha ran in unsolicited, distracted Charlotte from hitting a moonsault to the floor and then got the referee to see she had a handful of tights during a pin attempt. It's not like she tossed Bayley a pair of knucks or held Charlotte's feet down from outside the ring Rude/Warrior style. As for the 4way - my biggest gripe is that Nia Jax is involved. Even in kayfabe, she hasn't earned it. Like in NXT, she's a big monster who loses all her big matches. In a perfect world, we'd get Sasha/Bayley and the women's division on Raw would be more like the one on SD where you'd have someone for Charlotte to face that was credible and interesting and over separate from being a "horsewoman." On SD, you have/had Naomi, Becky, and Nikki all involved in separate angles, while on Raw, aside from Dana Brooke, I can't name another female talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Reigns won the 2015 Royal Rumble. It all goes back to that. He became irredeemable as a top babyface that night. If they stuck to the Brock plan, it could have worked. He was getting over in front of the toughest crowd in the world in that match. Then came Rollins and the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Legitimately surprised that people hated the Bayley/Charlotte match. I thought it was terrific. Another great performance out of Charlotte and I thought Bayley, while not the most technically proficient worker, continues to make me want to see her fire up and start clubbering. They were on the way to have a pretty good match until Bayley took over offense and blew everything (or maybe Charlotte was out of position half of the time, I don't know). That thing that Bayley wanted to do while Charlotte was in the tree-of-woe looked especially horrible. First Bayley stopped the spot, I guess as Charlotte was not in position. And then she did it anyway and only caught Charlotte's hand for a spot that was clearly meant to hit the head or the body. Booking-wise Charlotte's taking her first PPV loss a month before Wrestlemania seems worse than Owens jobbing to Goldberg after a 5-minute-Larry-Z-special. The was a classic case where they booked themselves into a corner. There was no good way to book this match. The best of the bad choices might have been a non-match after Lesnar attacks Goldberg at the bell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 That thing that Bayley wanted to do while Charlotte was in the tree-of-woe looked especially horrible. First Bayley stopped the spot, I guess as Charlotte was not in position. And then she did it anyway and only caught Charlotte's hand for a spot that was clearly meant to hit the head or the body. That was pretty awful and looked like it lasted an eternity. No idea what the bad US announcers said about it, but Christophe Agius (French heelish announcer) did a tremendous job covering for it while acknowledging it was all screwed up. That guy is simply great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 The spot was obviously screwed up, but It didn't take me out of the entire contest plus, to me, I can look at it and say that Charlotte was actively getting out of position because she was wisely trying to avoid Bayley's premeditated elbow drop attempt. It was a botch, but Charlotte had been using the ropes and cutting off Bayley so well throughout the match that I felt like it was easier to overlook it than it would've been had the whole match been full of gaffes or had Charlotte not been showing great ring awareness throughout her heel run. I can totally understand if this makes me come off as a fanboy of these two and I'm not sure it's not true, but from bell to bell, that was MOTN to me and, not to bring up another issue but, it was a match that kept me engaged without a million dangerous high spots (a common critique of Sasha/Charlotte but one nobody has levied against Gallagher/Neville which featured at least two really dangerous direct-to-the-neck bumps). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 If you can overlook or find a way to make this seem not terrible, you're certainly a better fan than I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 If you can overlook or find a way to make this seem not terrible, you're certainly a better fan than I am. I couldn't believe what I was watching in the stands. I was like "just do a fucking sliding dropkick!" Ruined the whole finishing stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Bayley seems to suffer more than any other wrestler in WWE right now of not being able to improvise if a pre-planned spot isn't going to work out. She did that thing in her last PPV match with Charlotte where she clearly saw Charlotte was out of position for whatever she was climbing the top rope to do but still got up there anyway and then had to climb down to move her in the right spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 it was a match that kept me engaged without a million dangerous high spots (a common critique of Sasha/Charlotte but one nobody has levied against Gallagher/Neville which featured at least two really dangerous direct-to-the-neck bumps). I did, actually : "but I'm surprised Gallagher doesn't get shit on for taking an unprotected, uncontrolled headdropping bump followed by a finisher (kind of) only to kick out and then keeping on going." Of the four Horsewomen, to me Bailey has been exposed a bit since she joined the main roster. She doesn't look that great anymore, whereas Charlotte has improved quite a bit and Sasha & Becky usually look just as strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 To be fair, it looked like Charlotte was legit stuck in the tree of woe and Bayley appeared to not want to have her blow out a knee by doing a move on her. She definitely has her sloppy moments but that one in particular I think is just a "shit happens" moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 it was a match that kept me engaged without a million dangerous high spots (a common critique of Sasha/Charlotte but one nobody has levied against Gallagher/Neville which featured at least two really dangerous direct-to-the-neck bumps). I did, actually : "but I'm surprised Gallagher doesn't get shit on for taking an unprotected, uncontrolled headdropping bump followed by a finisher (kind of) only to kick out and then keeping on going." Of the four Horsewomen, to me Bailey has been exposed a bit since she joined the main roster. She doesn't look that great anymore, whereas Charlotte has improved quite a bit and Sasha & Becky usually look just as strong. What kind of finisher did Gallagher kick out of? He did take some disgusting bumps for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 What kind of finisher did Gallagher kick out of? He did take some disgusting bumps for sure. I'm not entirely sure it's an actual finisher, but after the uncontrolled head-drop bump (and by uncontrolled I mean he landed straight on his neck without having his shoulders as support, like even Misawa or Kobashi would do), Neville hit him with some elaborate twisting third rope jump. Maybe not a usual Neville finisher (I don't watch regularly) but the head-droping spot was just as ridiculous as Omega's second rope double-nelson suplex spot at the Dome show (which dropped me straight out of the match). Both were basically ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Oh, the second rope phoenix splash? It's not like Neville's snap German is usually a head drop, they just went fucking flying with it. I don't think it's quite the same as a top rope dragon suplex, although it was gross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahoos Leg Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Bayley seems to suffer more than any other wrestler in WWE right now of not being able to improvise if a pre-planned spot isn't going to work out. She did that thing in her last PPV match with Charlotte where she clearly saw Charlotte was out of position for whatever she was climbing the top rope to do but still got up there anyway and then had to climb down to move her in the right spot. Same thing happened a couple times during the cell match with Sasha and Charlotte. I feel like this is a problem with a lot of the homegrown performance center-trained wrestlers on the current roster, especially on the female side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 It seems like the majority of their training is doing drills nonstop, which is all well and good until something goes wrong. It's not like they don't have trainers who would seem to be able to teach to those moments, but I suppose a lot of that is just instinct too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Rewatching that it seems even more awful. I've never gotten the hype about Bayley. Always thought she was average at best in the ring and not on the same level as Charlotte, Becky, or Sasha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 To be fair, it's not just the girls who can freeze when things go wrong. I mean, Randy Orton is one of the most polished, seasoned veterans on the roster, and yet he's renowned for stopping in his tracks and throwing a tantrum when something goes awry in the ring. Not everyone can deal with mishaps, and not everyone who can deal with them can deal with them every time. Sometimes things go wrong. For that one, I don't even know how you can blame Bayley all that much, since clearly the first time she went for her thing but Charlotte hadn't lifted herself into position yet, so she turned around to go again and when she did Charlotte's hand slipped off and she STILL wasn't there, so Bayley ended up elbowing the air. Bayley was leaping by that point, I'm not sure how she could have realised and magicked herself a foot closer to the corner in time. Charlotte was out of position for the spot. Reminds me of when Charlotte dumped Sasha on her head and nearly snapped her neck, and all people could talk about was how sloppy Sasha was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Rewatching that it seems even more awful. I've never gotten the hype about Bayley. Always thought she was average at best in the ring and not on the same level as Charlotte, Becky, or Sasha. I don't think she was ever on their level wrestling wise, but her connection with the fans in NXT was something else. Sadly, the 11 million writers on Raw don't know how to write a babyface so she was DOA as soon as she moved up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 If you can overlook or find a way to make this seem not terrible, you're certainly a better fan than I am. This sort of thing is a staple of Charlotte matches. It's a thing to praise her now because she has improved in many ways as a character, but almost every major Charlotte match over the last year has seen her sandbag, base poorly, or awkwardly take/be out of a position on a signature spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 To be fair, it's not just the girls who can freeze when things go wrong. I mean, Randy Orton is one of the most polished, seasoned veterans on the roster, and yet he's renowned for stopping in his tracks and throwing a tantrum when something goes awry in the ring. Not everyone can deal with mishaps, and not everyone who can deal with them can deal with them every time. Sometimes things go wrong. For that one, I don't even know how you can blame Bayley all that much, since clearly the first time she went for her thing but Charlotte hadn't lifted herself into position yet, so she turned around to go again and when she did Charlotte's hand slipped off and she STILL wasn't there, so Bayley ended up elbowing the air. Bayley was leaping by that point, I'm not sure how she could have realised and magicked herself a foot closer to the corner in time. Charlotte was out of position for the spot. Reminds me of when Charlotte dumped Sasha on her head and nearly snapped her neck, and all people could talk about was how sloppy Sasha was. Its always interesting how blame is placed in these situations. This all happens so quickly and with such little time to react, along with the fact that most of the roster is now trained not to react but to follow a script. Total wild card what'll happen when someone does miss a line in those situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 It sure looks to me that Charlotte was in place when Bayley went to jump, but Bayley got no spring at all on her jump and had to do it again. Then Charlotte tried to sit up to get out of the tree of woe, but Bayley came back in and missed as Charlotte was trying to get back into position. Regardless, even if Charlotte had been in perfect position, Bayley would have missed completely because she jumped from too far away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 I long for the days of the "You fucked up !" chant. It was still better than the masturbatory shit we get today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 It sure looks to me that Charlotte was in place when Bayley went to jump, but Bayley got no spring at all on her jump and had to do it again. Then Charlotte tried to sit up to get out of the tree of woe, but Bayley came back in and missed as Charlotte was trying to get back into position. Regardless, even if Charlotte had been in perfect position, Bayley would have missed completely because she jumped from too far away.I thought there was a chance that the bottom rope was loose because Goldberg slipped on it when he was climbing after his match but when I watched it on TV it seemed like that wasn't the case. I split the blame between both of them. Just an unfortunate spot and definitely not exclusive to the women on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZThomas Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 That was the best RAW PPV so far overall, The Main Event was what is was and atleast it made sense but I thought every match was atleast watchable. I though Charlotte looked the the best I've seen her here because she wasnt doing too much, and pulling out crazy spots like she does on every PPV. She does shit just to display how athletic she is, We get it, she is athletic but she focused more on being heel. I didnt like how Sasha came out like she was going to push he off the turnbuckle, she came out like a heel run in,that threw me off. The Cruiserweight match was the Match of the Night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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