WON HOF 2017

[Matt D]

You should give a podcast with Phil where are you both examine specific Fujiwara matches and go point/counterpoint. It worked well for me.

 

http://placetobenation.com/digging-in-the-crates-7/

[ohtani's jacket]

Fujiwara was a career mid-carder and multiple failure as a promoter. So bad in fact he caused a mass exodus of talent. He shouldn't even be on the ballot.

 

The Pancrase guys left because they didn't want to work pro-wrestling matches. And the BattlARTS guys left because there was a problem with Fujiwara's sponsor and not Fujiwara himself. PWFG was a promotion of little significance. It was founded because Fujiwara didn't belong to any of the factions within the UWF and instead wanted to create a promotion for his students. It didn't operate any differently from any other small indy during the time period. It had backing from Super Megane and provided talent for their shows. After that dried up, there was a working agreement with New Japan. As a small-time promoter, he deserves credit for building the promotion back up after he was left with only Yuki Ishikawa,

[EricR]

At minimum the wrestlers he had a hand in training should be proof of his influence, and should be easily enough to help get his candidacy over the line.

[Jetlag]

EDGE.

 

I am at a loss.

 

He is one of Meltzer's highest rated wrestlers, I think the US guy with most ****+ matches.

[elliott]

I was super surprised to see Kiyoshi Tamura was Meltzer's last cut on his ballot. Here's the Gordy List I wrote for Tamura last year. I made a very few edits here and there for clarity.

 

 

Gordy List: Kiyoshi Tamura

 

1.Was he ever regarded as the best draw in the world? Was he ever regarded as the best draw in his country or his promotion?

He was never regarded as the best draw in the world or in his country.

He was never the biggest draw in UWFi.

He would likely be considered the biggest draw in RINGS in 1998 and 1999. However, of the 4 biggest shows in RINGS in 1998 and 1999, Akira Maeda was in the main event of 3 of them. The 4^th was Tamura vs Mikhail Illioukhine only managing to sell 9,200 tickets to a Budokan Hall main event, a building that holds 16,000+.

Calling Tamura the “best draw in RINGS” is akin to calling Curt Hennig the best draw in 1987 AWA or Sting in early 90s WCW. RINGS wasn’t that bad as far as drawing, but the numbers were down from the glory days, and there were a lot of cards where they could only fill roughly half of mid-sized buildings. Plus, in the case of the Tamura/Sting comparison, the period immediately following their time period as ace saw the company’s attendance increase after a shift in direction (WCW went to Hogan, RINGS went to Shoots).

 

This isn’t a perfect comparison. RINGS tickets were much more expensive than late 80s AWA or early 90s WCW and was promoted as a more “High Brow” form of entertainment catering to a wealthier fan base. However, I use that comparison more to illustrate that Tamura’s time on top of RINGS came during the company’s low point.

 

2. Was he an international draw, national draw and/or regional draw?

No, no and no. Based on the evidence we have, I think it is fair to say that Tamura is not someone who moved noticeably moved the needle from a financial point of view.

 

3. How many years did he have as a top draw?

No years as a top draw.

 

4. Was he ever regarded as the best worker in the world? Was he ever regarded as the best worker in his country or in his promotion?

Regarded is the key word here. Since the late 90s, Tamura has generally been pointed to as the best wrestler in the world during 1998 and 1999. It is possible 1997 would be included in this, but All Japan was still highly regarded in 1997 as were juniors like Liger, Ohtani, Guerrero, Rey Jr and Benoit. However, I think it is fair to say that Tamura has generally been considered the best wrestler in the world in 98 and 99 by folks who watched a lot of wrestling from all over the world.

1998 and 1999 were interesting years in the wrestling business as All Japan was falling apart, people stopped giving a shit about New Japan Juniors, M-Pro died, AJW died, UWFi died, WCW and WWE were at their lowpoint as far as in ring work, this is pre-indy boom, and lucha guys have never really been able to get any sort of traction as “best in the world” because it is less watched and the booking doesn’t always lend itself to creating best in the world candidates (at least not in the way most wrestling fans view wrestling). HOWEVER, with wrestling quality falling off a cliff in the late 90s, Kiyoshi Tamura was pointed to as the guy still capable of having all time classic matches.

I think it would be fair to say he was generally considered the best wrestler in Japan in 1998 and 1999 by people who watched more than just the big All Japan matches at the time.

Promotion is a little tricky. Hardcore fans at the time LOVED them some Takada and most people at the time would have regarded him as the best worker in UWFi from the beginning of the promotion to the end. In RINGS, either Tamura or Volk Han was considered the best wrestler in the promotion when Tamura jumped in 6/96 through 1997. Tamura worked more than twice as many matches as Han in 1998 so I feel it would be fair to say Tamura surpassed Han officially in 1998 if he hadn’t at some point from 6/96-12/97.

The most conservative point of view would likely be that Tamura was either the best or second best wrestler in his promotion from 6/96-12/99.

 

5. Was he ever the best worker in his class (sex or weight)? Was he ever one of the top workers in his class?

This is also kind of tricky. Tamura was a small guy with google telling me he’s 5’11 and 185lbs. So you’d think to classify him as a junior heavyweight. It’s weird to think of him as a junior heavyweight. If you classify him that way his peers would be Liger, Eddy, Benoit, Rey, etc. And you really wouldn’t call him the best worker in his class until that late 90s period. It would also be hard to place him as a “top worker” (defined as a top 10 worker) in his class if you consider him a “junior” and are comparing him to the Ligers and Reys of the world. Those wrestlers were way more visible and talked about than Tamura.

I’d feel more comfortable defining his class as “shoot style.” That makes more sense to me than saying he’s better than El Samurai or Hayabusa.

If we define his class as “shoot style” then he would have been considered at worst the 2^nd best in the style as early as 6/96 when he jumped to RINGS and the best from 1/98-12/99.

 

In terms of being a “top worker” in the class, it gets a little trickier because of how these guys were “regarded.” Takada would have been “regarded” as better from the moment Tamura debuted until Tamura left for RINGS and Takada started doing Pride stuff. Volk Han would have been regarded as better from the moment Han debuted in 12/91 until at least 6/96 and probably further into 1997. Kazuo Yamazaki is tough because he’s among the most underappreciated wrestlers in history. My gut feeling is that people at the time would have considered him better than Tamura until at least 1994 or 95. Maybe jdw can shed some light on how Yamazaki was regarded at the time period vs Tamura.

From there it gets tricky. Fujiwara love is not only revisionist and niche. I don’t know what to do about the Pancrase guys like Suzuki or Funaki. Guys like Yoji Anjoh and Naoki Sano were great workers but even more under the radar than Yamazaki. I can’t imagine Kakihara getting a bunch of love if Tamura wasn’t getting it. Trying to be conservative, I think Tamura was probably considered a top 10 shoot stylist no later than 1994 and remained that way until the end of the decade.

6. How many years did he have as a top worker?

Worldwide covering all styles, he is generally considered a top worker (as defined as top 10) from 1997-1999.

As a top worker in his class (shoot style) probably from 1994-1999.

 

7. Was he a good worker before his prime? Was he a good worker after his prime?

I think most people would point to RINGS era Tamura as his “prime years.” Assuming that, Tamura was an excellent worker before his prime. He showed a lot of potential in his very first match in 1989 and was having legit great matches before he even had 15 matches to his name.

Post prime would have to be considered “U-Style” for reasons that are pretty silly to me, but anyway because of that I would say he was absolutely an excellent worker after his prime. When he stopped doing shoots and formed U-Style he looked every bit as good as he was in RINGS in the late 90s so I’d almost be tempted to call U-Style part of his prime. But I get why it would have to be considered post prime.

8. Did he have a large body of excellent matches? Did he have a excellent matches against a variety of opponents?

This is where it gets kind of batshit insane. Because of the nature of shoot style only working around a show a month, Tamura has barely over 100 matches in his career from 1989-1999 plus 2003-2004. But in spite of that he has a pretty staggering amount of excellent matches.

 

At a minimum he had excellent matches against:

Yoji Anjoh (multiple), Masahito Kakihara (multiple), Kazuo Yamazaki (multiple), Volk Han (multiple), Tsyuoshi Kohsaka (multiple), Yoshihisa Yamamoto (multiple), Naoki Sano (multiple), Nobuhiko Takada, Vader, Gary Albright, Nikolai Zouev, Bitsadze Tariel, Mikahil Ilioukhine, Wataru Sakata, Hiroyuki Ito, Dokonjonosuke Mishima, and Josh Barnett.

And that’s not even it! I’m leaving off more “controversial” great matches like multiples against Yuko Miyato, Dick Leon-Vrij, Willie Peeters, and Alexander Otsuka that others probably aren’t going to be as high on as I am. I’m also ignoring tags which would include dudes like Tom Burton, Mark Fleming, Mark Silver, Steve Nelson, and Yoshihiro Takayama.

So not only does Tamura have a shit ton of great matches in a very niche/narrow style, he managed to do it against a wide variety of opponents with varying degrees of skill over a 15 year time period.

 

9. Did he ever anchor his promotion(s)?

He anchored post Maeda/pre shoots RINGS in 98 and 99 and he anchored U-Style. The first would be a slightly more impressive version of Sting anchoring mid 90s WCW and the 2^nd would be a slightly more impressive version of Mike Quackenbush headlining Chikara if Chikara shut down after a year.

10. Was he effective when pushed at the top of cards?

Yes and no. You look at something like his first main event at Budokan where he faced Takada at a sold out show in 1993 and you can say “that’s Tamura being effective.” But I’m not sure Tamura had much to do with that number. His ascension to the top of RINGS came at that company’s lowest point. Granted, company founder and biggest star Akira Maeda retired which is what made Tamura the ace so losing your #1 guy in history is always going to hurt, but Tamura’s drawing record at the top of the card in RINGS is not very good. When he had the opportunity to main event shows for UWFi in 1995 when the company was collapsing, there were a number of “this is the lowest attendance figure UWFi has ever had in this building.”

 

There are some sporadic instances in RINGS where Tamura was on a show that did better than they had done in the building in years. But they were few and far between .

 

U-Style he was pushed to the top because it was his vanity promotion. They mostly ran Korakuen Hall and other small buildings so its hard to say he was an effective draw at the top of the cards for such a small promotion. I’m not sure it matters as part of a HOF case.

 

Now, as a worker, yes. Tamura was effective when pushed to the top of the cards. He could always been counted on to bust his ass and put on the best performances that he could. From an artistic standpoint, he was a blow away success but from a financial standpoint, he wasn’t ever really effective.

 

I get that anyone voting for Tamura is probably going to take shootfighting into account for his career. Perhaps someone could talk about that as I’m not the guy for it. But I’ve never been under the impression that Tamura was a massive draw in MMA like Sakuraba or whoever else.

 

11. Was he valuable to his promotion before his prime? Was he still valuable to his promotion after his prime?

Tamura’s UWFi career is widely considered before he reached his prime. So, I would say, yes, he was valuable to his promotion before his prime as an up & coming super worker. He is a direct peer to Kenta Kobashi in terms of age, debut and role in the promotion. As a young worker, he was often the hardest worker in addition to being one of the top workers in the promotion able to go out and have good-great matches in any position on the card against any opponent. Tamura probably meant less to UWFi in terms of drawing than Kobashi did to All Japan, but on very few instances where Tamura was in featured matches as a young wrestler, he delivered in the ring.

His “post prime” would be U-Style and he was the top star and best worker in the company for its duration so he would definitely be considered valuable to U-Style after his prime. What that means as far as a HOF case is up to the voter.

 

11.Did he have an impact on a number of strong promotional runs?

No. Takada was the driving force behind UWFi and by the time Tamura progressed enough in his career to start getting regular-ish featured matches in UWFi, the bloom was off the rose. His time in RINGS coincided with RINGS’ lowest point in company history and in fact RINGS started to do a little better when they moved to all shoots and Tamura became a less featured player.

13. Was he involved in a number of memorable rivalries, feuds or storylines?

Because of the nature of the style and promotions he worked in, Tamura really never worked storylines and he worked so few matches that there aren’t many opportunities to establish memorable feuds and rivalries. However, Tamura vs Volk Han is regarded as the best rivalry in shoot style history by many people. His rivalries with Tsyuoshi Kohsaka and Yoshihisa Yamamoto are often considered to be right on or right below the level of the Han feud. His early career rivalry against Yoji Anjoh has been completely forgotten in time but was an excellent rivalry looking back.

14. Was he effective working on the mic, working storylines or working angles?

This doesn’t apply to Tamura. His most memorable “angle” was the uncooperative match against Gary Albright leading to the infamous “Break, Gary, BREAK!” moment.

15. Did he play his role(s) effectively during his career?

He was a tremendous working young up and comer. He actually worked for about 2 years playing the role of a guy who didn’t wear kickpads and borderline refused to strike so he would focus entirely on grappling and submissions. I’m not sure if people would consider this a “role” but it was an interesting part of young Tamura’s career. As the Ace of U-Style he was excellent in the ring.

Really any role Tamura played you’re going to see artistic excellence paired with usually disappointing financial gains. So this is sort of a catch 22 category for Tamura. In terms of working in the ring, he was great at whatever roles he was playing.

16. What titles and tournaments did he win? What was the importance of the reigns?

Tamura won the 1997 RINGS World Mega Battle Tournament by beating Mikhail Ilioukhine in the tournament finals at Budokan Hall 1/21/98 in front of 9,200 fans in a tournament that included: Tamura, Ilioukhine, Maeda, Han, Andrei Kopilov, Dick Leon-Vrij, Bitsadze Tariel, Tsuyoshi Kohsaka, Hans Nyman, and Nikolai Zouev amongst others. Tamura defeated Hans Nyman, Joop Kasteel, Akira Maeda and Mikhail Ilioukhine to win the tournament.

This is RINGS’ big annual tournament. Previous winners include: Chris Dolman, Akira Maeda x2, and Volk Han x2. Tamura lost the 1996 tournament final to Volk Han.

The 1997 tournament also crowned not just the Mega Battle Tournament winner but crowned the first ever RINGs Openweight Title Championship. Tamura held the title until dropping it to Bitsadze Tariel on 5/29/98. Tariel would hold the title until dropping it back to Tamura a year later on 5/22/99. Tamura held the title through the transition to full shoots before losing the title to Gilbert Yvel on 4/20/00. Yvel vacated the title 5/00 when he went to Pride and it was subsequently won by Fedor Emelianenko who held the title until RINGS closed in 2/02.

So Tamura was the first ever RINGS champion, but that reign was the shortest in the title’s 4 year existence, but he then won it back and held it until the shift to full shoots.

Tamura’s initial win of the title was the company’s worst drawing show ever at Budokan Hall by more than 1,000 fans.

In U-Style, Tamura won the U-Style tournament over the course of 3 shows (2 at Korakuen Hall) from 8/7/04-8/18/04. The promotion ran 6 total shows over the course of 4 years after the tournament so it would be hard to say it had any meaning at all.

17. Did he win many honors and awards?

 

Someone will have to help me out with any Japanese awards and honors. But looking through mookie’s WON Awards results:

1997 – Placed 7^th overall Best Technical Wrestler

1998 – Honorable Mention Readers Favorite Wrestler (One point behind Kobashi, 3 points above Rey Jr)

1998 – 3^rd Place Match of the Year vs Tsuyoshi Kohsaka 6/27

1998 – 6^th Place Most Outstanding Wrestler

1998 – Honorable Mention Wrestler of the Year (Behind Tsuyoshi Kohsaka which I think is very interesting)

1999 – 9^th Place Worked Match of the Year vs Yoshihisa Yamamoto 6/24

1999 – 3^rd Place Best Technical Wrestler

2000 – 8^th Place Shoot Match of the Year vs Antonio Nogueira 10/9

2003 – 6^th Place Shoot Match of the Year vs Hidehiko Yoshida 8/10

2003 – Honorable Mention Best Technical Wrestler

2006 – Ranked 63^rd Overall on the Smarkschoice GWE Poll placing on 23 of 49 Ballots with 2 Top 10 Votes

2016 – Ranked 62^nd Overall on the PWO GWE Poll appearing on 55 of 152 Ballots with one 2^nd place vote and an overall ranking of 31.1

18. Did he get mainstream exposure due to his wrestling fame? Did he get a heavily featured by the wrestling media?

I would need assistance on this. I couldn’t see him ranking in the top 20 in terms of mainstream exposure due to wrestling fame even from his own era.

19. Was he a top tag team wrestler?

Tag team wrestling isn’t an important part of shoot wrestling. He participated in tag team matches in UWFi and tended to have excellent performances in tag matches. But I wouldn’t call him a top tag team wrestler due to the nature of the style and promotions he worked.

20. Was he innovative?

Sort of. Tamura, along with Volk Han, really pushed the boundaries of what was capable not only just in shoot style but in a wrestling ring. Tamura seems innovative because of his speed, athleticism and technique and the fact that when you combined all of this nobody could do what he was capable of in the ring. However, I don’t really view him as innovative in the way that Volk Han was. If Fujiwara & Takada are Buddy Rogers & Ray Stevens, then Tamura was Ric Flair taking their ideas and pushing them as far as possible. I see Tamura as a worker in the tradition of the shoot style founding fathers. Volk Han to me, was the more innovative wrestler within the niche of shootstyle. Outside of quality of work, I don’t see much difference between Tamura, Takada, Yamazaki, Kohsaka and Yamamoto. Volk Han was certainly more unique character.

21. Was he influential?

Not really. He was one of many people in Japanese wrestling to help turn shoot style wrestling into shoots which in my mind wasn’t just a negative to Japanese pro wrestling in general, but was a negative to Tamura’s specific case as a pro wrestling Hall of Famer in my eyes.

22. Did he make the people and workers around him better?

Absolutely. Tamura was an incredible wrestler and he had the best matches in the career of Volk Han, Yamamoto, Kohsaka, and Mikhail Ilioukhine at a bare minimum with arguments for the best match in the career of Gary Albright, Yoji Anjoh, Nikolai Zouev and some dudes I’m probably forgetting because I’m getting worn out.

The bottom line though was that Tamura could always be counted on to make limited workers look good and good workers look great and great workers look transcendent.

23. Did he do what was best for the promotion? Did he show a commitment to wrestling?

Well, he always worked hard and tried to put on the best match he could against anybody. I don’t know much about him refusing to job or anything like that. I do know that he refused to take part in the UWFi vs New Japan feud because he didn’t want to be a fake pro wrestler like in New Japan which led to him leaving for RINGS. That’s not really doing the best thing for his promotion. UWFi was in dire straits financially at this time period and the New Jpaan feud was just life support for them anyway. However, it was a HUGELY successful feud at the time period that Tamura didn’t take part in.

He really didn’t show a commitment to “Pro Wrestling” because he was quick to make the jump to shoots when that became a thing. But its hard to fault a guy for doing what he wants to do career wise.

24. Is there any reason to believe that he was better or worse than he appeared?

 

Yes. First of all, if you are a voter inclined to consider shoots, Tamura likely comes across as a better draw. I’m not sure how much better and I know he was never close to Sakuraba’s level as a star, but he probably gets some help. So there’s that.

 

Also, UWFi and especially RINGS tended to have very high priced tickets compared to traditional pro-wrestling shows so while the attendance numbers, especially for RINGS, aren’t very impressive, the gates tended to average higher numbers than you’d expect.

 

I also wanted to be as fair as I possibly could in regards work related questions in the Gordy list. I wanted to try and look at the perception and ignore my personal opinions and leave them for here. I would argue that Tamura was the best Japanese wrestler of all time and was actually the best wrestler in the world as early as 1994 until the rest of the decade. I think when he came back and opened U-Style, he instantly became the best wrestler on the planet again from 03-04 until U-Style Closed. Basically I think his case is better than it appears because his strengths are MUCH stronger than I actually presented them above. Ignoring the shooting and the year he was out from Maeda breaking his face, Tamura had a 12 year career as a pro-wrestler. In my opinion, he was the best wrestler on the planet for 8 of those years. EIGHT! That’s crazy. 75% of his career he was the best guy on earth and he had less than 15 bad matches EVER and probably less than 5 bad performances ever working probably the most difficult style to master in all of wrestling.

 

His case it worse than it appears because in addition to being basically a zero as a draw, he left wrestling in the middle of his prime to pursue other athletic interests. He left at the top of his game and had he worked a “normal” career of roughly 20 years, who knows how many classic matches he’d have?

 

His case is worse than it appears because his biggest positives as related to “influence” are outside of the pro-wrestling sphere. And even then, is Kiyoshi Tamura one of the 25 most influential people as it relates to the rise of MMA in Japan? He’d have to be behind Inoki, Sakuraba, Takada, Pancase Guys, Gracies, Bob Sapp, Maeda, Fujiwara, Takayama, etc etc etc.

 

His case is worse than it appears because he had roughly 100 total matches as a pro-wrestler. It is weird to think that a guy who performed less in 12 years than other guys have worked in 5 months to get in the Hall. That is a difficult idea to wrap your head around and it can be used against him (foolishly in my opinion) to downgrade his ranking as a worker/best in the world candidate.

 

Edit:

I've added in the spoilers below in his UWFi/RINGS results that I looked at last year in preparation for writing the Gordy List with analysis in case folks wanted to look at that as well.

 

 

 

Kiyoshi Tamura debuted May 21, 1989 losing to Minoru Suzuki in 5 minutes at NK Hall in front of 7,000 people in the opening match. He continued on the in the opening match for his first few shows until he “got” to wrestle Akira Maeda in the semi main event (underneath a Takada vs Fujiwara match) in front of 5,600 people in Sapporro at UWF’s 10/25/89 show at the Nakajima Sports Center. It should be noted that even though he’s in the semi-main event, Tamura should get zero credit for drawing a single person. UWF was the hottest wrestling promoting in Japan in 88 and 89 on the back of Maeda and Maeda making Takada. Tamura was just cannon fodder. And Maeda treated him as such and destroyed Tamura with knees to the face so hard he broke I believe Tamura’s cheekbone. This caused Tamura to miss the next 14 months of action. Indeed he wouldn’t appear again until 12/1/90 in the opener against Masahito Kakihara in what turned out to be UWF2.0’s last ever show. When UWFi was formed, Tamura vs Kakihara was the opener for the very first show which I’ve always thought was really cool but again doesn’t mean anything. All Tamura is known for at this point is having his face destroyed by Maeda.

Tamura gets his first main event here:

Spoiler

July 30, 1991 in Fukuoka, Japan
Hakata Star Lanes drawing 2,000

1. Makoto Ohe KO Juan Arellano (2nd - 1:37) in a "kickboxing" match.

2. Yuko Miyato beat Tatsuo Nakano (9:41) via submission.

3. Kazuo Yamazaki beat Billy Scott via submission.

4. Yoji Anjoh & Jim Boss beat Nobuhiko Takada & Kiyoshi Tamura (31:02) when Anjoh forced Tamura to submit.

 

This is a small spot show as UWFi is still finding itself. This was their first non-Korakuen Hall show but Takada alone deserves all credit for UWFi drawing at this point.

 

Tamura spends the rest of 1991 in first or second matches on the card. He gets wins over Kakihara, Tom Burton once in a singles and once in a tag, Yuko Miyato, and Tatsuo Nakano. He loses 3 times to Yoji Anjoh in a (great) singles match and two tag matches. He also loses to Gary Albright at Sumo Hall on 12/22/91 at what is UWFi’s biggest show in history up to that point in front of 11,000 fans coming to see Nobuhiko Takada take on Trevor Berbick in a Wrestler vs Boxer match.

 

1992 Tamura moves up the card a bit and is working mid card matches. He picks up wins over:

Yuko Miyato, Tatsuo Nakano, Mark Silver, Ray (Glacier) Lloyd, and Steve Cox.

He lost to Anjoh in a tag match. Lost a tag match where his partner Yuko Miyato took the fall.

He had a 30minute draw against Yoji Anjoh

 

Tamura had one main event in 1992, which he lost:

July 12, 1992 in Shizuoka, Japan
Industrial Hall drawing 4,500

1. Makoto Ohe beat Fernando Calleros (5th) via decision in a "kickboxing" match.

2. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Yoshihiro Takayama (10:20) via submission.

3. Yoji Anjoh & Mark Fleming beat Tatsuo Nakano & Tom Burton (17:15) when Anjoh forced Burton to submit.

4. Yuko Miyato beat Masahito Kakihara (6:09) via submission.

5. Nobuhiko Takada beat Steve Cox (6:27) via submission.

6. Gary Albright & Mark Silver beat Kazuo Yamazaki & Kiyoshi Tamura (18:49) when Albright KO Tamura.

I don’t give Tamura any credit for this sellout. He’s the junior member in a tag match there to take the fall for a promotion that is hot as fuck and selling out all of their shows anyway.

 

Tamura did have two major wins in 1992 in a great position on the card:

May 8, 1992 in Yokohama, Japan
Yokohama Arena drawing 14,000

1. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Masakazu Maeda (15:08) via submission.

2. Masahito Kakihara drew Mark Silver (30:00).

3. Tatsuo Nakano beat Tom Burton (9:00) via submission.

4. Mark Fleming beat Yuko Miyato (8:07) via submission.

5. Yoji Anjoh beat Steve Day (11:48) via submission.

6. Nick Bockwinkel drew Billy Robinson (10:00) in an "exhibition" match. Lou Thesz was the referee.

7. Koji Kitao KO Kazuo Yamazaki (7:48).

8. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Matthew Saad Muhammad (1st - 0:34) via sleeperhold in a "wrestler vs. boxer" match.

9. Gary Albright KO Nobuhiko Takada (14:37)

This is the biggest show in UWFi’s history at this point and Tamura gets to work 2^nd from the top in a “wrestler vs boxer” match and win convincingly in under a minute.

 

 

October 23, 1992 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 16,500

1. Kunpon Gehya Samureek beat Makoto Ohe (5th) via decision in a "kickboxing" match.

2. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Tom Burton (7:15) via submission.

3. Yoshihiro Takayama TKO Mark Silver (1:11).

4. Yoji Anjoh beat Khasrow Vaziri (Iron Sheik) (4:54) via submission.

5. Masahito Kakihara & Yuko Miyato beat Gary Albright & Mark Flemming (5:10) when Kakihara forced Flemming to submit.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Kazuo Yamazaki (15:34) via submission.

7. Nobuhiko Takada KO Koji Kitao (3rd - 0:46)

Now, that’s the biggest show in UWFi history up to this point and Tamura again gets to go over in a match 2^nd from the top. This time beating the #2 native in UWFi in an excellent match.

 

Like his other main events, I would give zero points for Tamura for drawing, but that’s great exposure and look. After the Kitao match, the very next show!!!

 

February 14, 1993 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 16,500

1. Bovy Chowaikung vs. Mel Murray in a "kickboxing" match.

2. Yoshihiro Takayama drew Tom Burton (20:00).

3. Tatsuo Nakano beat Masahito Kakihara (8:44) via submission.

4. Mark Flemming beat Hiromitsu Kanehara (4:43) via submission.

5. Yuko Miyato beat Gene Lydick (5:29) via submission.

6. Dan Severn beat Yoji Anjoh (5:13) via submission.

7. Kazuo Yamazaki KO Dennis Koslowski (11:21).

8. Gary Albright KO Naoki Sano (4:20).

9. Nobuhiko Takada TKO Kiyoshi Tamura (15:03).

 

Tamura gets to main event against Takada and it’s a sell out at Budokan. I’m a big fan of Tamura, but I wouldn’t use this as an example of him as a draw at this point in his career. He’s been a young wrestler on the rise for sure and been involved in a bunch of great matches already sure. And I can’t deny that this is a Budokan sell out. But it feels wrong to say Tamura was a major part of that. “Takada” and “UWFi” had more to do with this selling out than “Tamura.” And the fact that Japanese wrestling was at its hottest point in the modern era probably doesn’t hurt. It’s a feather in his cap and cool, but I wouldn’t say “Tamura was a draw” and point to this as an example of him being a real draw. UWFi was selling out all of their Tokyo shows and so was All Japan. So yeah. Great match though. And Budokan.

 

April 10, 1993 in Osaka, Japan
Furitsu Gym drawing 7,500

1. Steve Day beat Hiromitsu Kanehara (6:55) via submission.

2. Mark Fleming beat Yoshihiro Takayama (7:01) via submission.

3. Tatsuo Nakano & Gene Lydick beat Yoji Anjoh & Tom Burton (15:57) when Nakano forced Burton to submit.

4. Bad News Allen beat Yuko Miyato (6:30) via submission.

5. Naoki Sano beat Masahito Kakihara (6:46) via submission.

6. Dan Severn beat Kiyoshi Tamura (21:37) via submission.

7. Gary Albright KO Dennis Koslowski (5:01).

8. Nobuhiko Takada beat Kazuo Yamazaki (15:13) via submission.

Severn had 3 matches up to this point in UWFi and this match was longer than all 3 of them combined. Severn beat Anjoh twice in 11 total minutes. It took him 21+ to beat Tamura.

 

May 6, 1993 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 16,500

1. Bad News Allen beat Yoshihiro Takayama (6:14) via submission.

2. Masahito Kakihara & Yoji Anjoh beat Gene Lydick & Tom Burton (13:42) when Burton was injured.

3. Kazuo Yamazaki beat Yuko Miyato (12:47) via submission.

4. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Naoki Sano (19:26) via submission.

5. Super Vader TKO Tatsuo Nakano (3:35).

6. Gary Albright KO Dennis Koslowski (4:56).

7. Nobuhiko Takada beat Dan Severn (13:50) via submission.

Back to the midcard in a match that doesn’t sell any tickets but looks like a “go out and have a great match because nothing else is gonna be all that great” and they did.

 

 

July 18, 1993 in Tokyo, Japan
Sumo Hall drawing 11,000

1. Hiromitsu Kanehara drew Gene Lydick (20:00).

2. Bad News Allen beat Yoshihiro Takayama (4:44) via submission.

3. Yuko Miyato beat Ray Lloyd (7:25) via submission.

4. Dennis Koslowski & Steve Day beat Naoki Sano & Masahito Kakihara (14:20) when Koslowski KO Kakihara.

5. Kazuo Yamazaki beat Yoji Anjoh (15:09) via countout.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Tatsuo Nakano (13:32) via submission.

7. Gary Albright TKO Mark Silver (1:05).

8. UWFI World Champ Nobuhiko Takada beat Salman Hashimikov (8:30) via submission.

 

Another meaningless match against a jobber. See why I’m hesitant to give him points for the Takada match?

 

 

August 13, 1993 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 16,500

1. Bovy Chowaikung beat Tony Cockburn in a "kickboxing" match.

2. Steve Nelson beat Kazushi Sakuraba (6:50) via submission.

3. Greg Bobchick beat Tommy Cairo (6:11) via submission.

4. Gene Lydick beat Yoshihiro Takayama (10:39) via submission.

5. Hiromitsu Kanehara TKO Tom Burton (7:06).

6. Masahito Kakihara beat Bad News Allen (7:06) via submission.

7. Dennis Koslowski beat Yuko Miyato (6:18) via submission.

8. Naoki Sano beat Yoji Anjoh (20:38) via submission.

9. Gary Albright & Dan Severn beat Nobuhiko Takada & Kiyoshi Tamura (21:39) when Albright forced Takada to submit.

10. Super Vader KO Kazuo Yamazaki (6:24)

This looks good. 2^nd match from the top on another Budokan sell out. AND he didn’t even lose. But that doesn’t change the fact that he’s the lowest ranked guy in the match. He’s wrestled and lost to all of these dudes before. PLUS, Vader in UWFi was a HUGE deal. So at best Tamura’s the 6^th most important drawing factor, 7^th if you want to count the name “UWFi” and maybe even less than that if you want to credit the general hotness of the wrestling scene. It would be like looking at No Way out 1998 and saying Savio Vega deserves a slice of credit for the 16,000+ live crowd. No he doesn’t and I dig Savio. Tamura is one of my 5 favorite wrestlers ever and he shouldn’t get credit here.

October 4, 1993 in Osaka, Japan
Furitsu Gym drawing 5,900
Shown October 5, 1993 on PPV (0.48)

1. Mark Silver beat Kazushi Sakuraba (7:14) via sleeperhold.

2. Yoshihiro Takayama beat Tom Burton (11:12) via submission.

3. Yoji Anjoh beat Tatsuo Nakano (9:22) via sleeperhold.

4. Dennis Koslowski beat Masahito Kakihara (8:55) via submission.

5. Hiromitsu Kanehara KO Tommy Cairo (3:49).

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Yuko Miyato (8:19) via submission.

7. Gene Lydick beat Greg Bobchick (7:37) via submission.

8. Kazuo Yamazaki beat Bad News Brown (13:34) via submission.

9. Salman Hashimikov & Vladimir Berkovich beat Gary Albright & Dan Severn (13:09) when Hashimikov forced Severn to submit.

10. UWFI World Champ Nobuhiko Takada beat Billy Scott (13:00) via submission.

11. Super Vader TKO Naoki Sano (6:20).

 

There he is back in the mid card beating a jobber in a meaningless match.

December 5, 1993 in Tokyo, Japan
Jingu Stadium drawing 46,168 ($2,500,000)

1. Bad News Allen beat Kazushi Sakuraba (5:45) via submission.

2. Gene Lydick beat Tom Burton (2:48) via submission.

3. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Greg Bobchick (6:38) via submission.

4. Yoshihiro Takayama beat Tommy Cairo (1:25) via submission.

5. Masahito Kakihara TKO Tatsuo Nakano (9:24).

6. Mark Silver & Kazuo Yamazaki beat Naoki Sano & Yuko Miyato (19:17) when Yamazaki forced Sano to submit.

7. Billy Scott beat Yoji Anjoh (13:40) via submission.

8. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Dennis Koslowski (12:49) via submission.

9. Salman Hashimikov & Vladimir Berkovich beat Gary Albright & Dan Severn (17:41) when Hashimikov forced Severn to submit.

10. UWFI World Champ Nobuhiko Takada beat Super Vader (14:23) via submission.

He gets a win 3^rd from the top but this card is all Vader vs Takada.

 

 

 

February 25, 1994 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 16,000

1. Steve Nelson beat Kazushi Sakuraba.

2. Tatsuo Nakano beat Yoshihiro Takayama.

3. Yuko Miyato beat Hiromitsu Kanehara.

4. Gene Lydick beat Billy Scott.

5. Yoji Anjoh beat Kazuo Yamazaki.

6. Nobuhiko Takada & Naoki Sano beat Gary Albright & Dan Severn.

7. Masahito Kakihara beat Kiyoshi Tamura.

 

This though. This is really interesting and I’m not sure what to do with it. Its not a sell out. But it is Tamura. In the main event against a lower ranked opponent drawing 16,000 at Budokan with Takada in a tag match. Granted, Albright has been Takada’s biggest opponent in UWFi’s history other than Vader and Severn vs Takada sold out Budokan in 93. So that tag match is a pretty strong semi-main event. But yeah. This was a thing. What’s even more bizarre is…

April 3, 1994 in Osaka, Japan
Castle Hall drawing 14,000 Shown April 16, 1994 on PPV (0.1)

1. Kiyoshi Tamura KO Bad News Allen (6:11).

2. Super Vader beat Salman Hashimikov via submission.

3. Gene Lydick beat Vladimir Berkovich (9:40) via submission.

4. Yoji Anjoh beat Victor Zangiev (5:54) via submission.

5. Masahito Kakihara beat Dan Severn (10:39) via submission.

6. Gary Albright KO Billy Scott (2:11).

7. Nobuhiko Takada beat Kazuo Yamazaki (7:17) via submission.

8. Yuko Miyato beat Yoshihiro Takayama.

9. Tatsuo Nakano beat Hiromitsu Kanehara via submission.

So, he main events a near sell out Budokan against a lower ranked opponent and they follow it up with him in the first match? WEIRD. This was the first round of a tournament but weird.

 

 

May 6, 1994 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 16,500

1. ISKA World Light Welterweight Champ Makoto Ohe beat Didier Montoya via decision in a "kickboxing" match.

2. Tom Burton KO Kazushi Sakuraba (5:10).

3. Hiromitsu Kanehara & Yoshihiro Takayama beat Dan Severn & Billy Scott (4:36) when Kanehara KO Scott.

4. Victor Zangiev beat Yuko Miyato (4:22) via submission.

5. Kazuo Yamazaki beat Tatsuo Nakano (9:42) via submission

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Naoki Sano (13:52) via submission.

7. Gary Albright KO Yoji Anjoh (4:26).

8. Nobuhiko Takada KO Gene Lydick (5:04).

9. Super Vader KO Masahito Kakihara (3:40).

2^nd round of the tournament.

June 10, 1994 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 16,500
Shown November 11, 1994 on PPV (0.12)

1. Bovy Chowaikung KO Gary Hadwin (3rd - 1:11) in a "kickboxing" match.

2. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Tom Burton (7:29) via submission.

3. Billy Scott beat Yoshihiro Takayama (11:03) via submission.

4. Steve Nelson & Gene Lydick beat Kazushi Sakuraba & Masahito Kakihara (16:08) when Lydick KO Sakuraba.

5. Naoki Sano beat Tatsuo Nakano (9:15) via submission.

6. Salman Hashimikov & Victor Zangiev beat Kazuo Yamazaki & Yoji Anjoh (16:00).

7. Super Vader pinned Kiyoshi Tamura (7:14).

8. UWFI World Champ Nobuhiko Takada beat Gary Albright (16:36) via submission.

Semi-Finals of the tournament. I am still hesitant to give Tamura any sort of credit for drawing. But this was the best 7 minute match ever. And he made it to the semi-finals so if nothing else you have to call him the #2 native wrestler in UWFi at this point.

August 18, 1994 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 16,500 ($1,150,000)

1. Bad News Allen beat Hiromitsu Kanehara (5:56) via submission.

2. Yoshihiro Takayama KO Mark Silver (0:37).

3. Kazushi Sakuraba & Masahito Kakihara beat Billy Scott & Gene Lydick (17:47) when Kakihara forced Scott to submit.

4. Salman Hashimikov beat Yuko Miyato (6:13) via submission.

5. Kazuo Yamazaki beat Tatsuo Nakano (11:11) via submission.

6. Yoji Anjoh & Naoki Sano beat Vladimir Berkovich & Victor Zangiev when Anjoh KO Zangiev.

7. Gary Albright KO Kiyoshi Tamura (17:31).

8. Super Vader KO Nobuhiko Takada (19:24) to win the UWFI Title and the Best of the World Tournament.

Semi main event and basically a 3^rd place match for the tournament. This was another great match for Tamura. I wouldn’t really give him any sort of credit for drawing the sellout since the match on top drew 46,000 fans the last time out.

October 8, 1994 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 16,500

1. Bovy Chowaikung vs. Danny Steele in a "kickboxing" match.

2. Kazushi Sakuraba beat Mark Silver.

3. Yoshihiro Takayama drew Hiromitsu Kanehara.

4. Yuko Miyato beat Tatsuo Nakano.

5. Naoki Sano beat Vladimir Berkovich.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura & Dan Severn beat Yoji Anjoh & Steve Nelson.

7. Masahito Kakihara beat Gene Lydick.

8. Nobuhiko Takada beat Victor Zangiev (6:32) via submission.

9. Gary Albright & Kazuo Yamazaki beat Super Vader & John Tenta (17:54) when Albright forced Vader to submit.

October 14, 1994 in Osaka, Japan
Castle Hall drawing 14,000

1. Kazushi Sakuraba beat Kenichi Yamamoto.

2. Vladimir Berkovich beat Hiromitsu Kanehara.

3. Dan Severn beat Yoshihiro Takayama.

4. Tatsuo Nakano & Victor Zangiev beat Yuko Miyato & Yoji Anjoh when Zangiev forced Anjoh to submit.

5. Gene Lydick & Kiyoshi Tamura beat Steve Nelson & Masahito Kakihara

6. Nobuhiko Takada beat Naoki Sano (17:24).

7. Super Vader & John Tenta beat Gary Albright & Kazuo Yamazaki (14:07) when Vader KO Yamazaki.

 

And Tamura is back to the mid card anyway.

 

 

November 30, 1994 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 16,500

1. Bovy Chowaikung KO Chris Mack (3rd - 1:11) in a "kickboxing" match.

2. Tom Burton beat Kenichi Yamamoto (5:25) via submission.

3. Yuko Miyato beat Kazushi Sakuraba (7:53) via submission.

4. Yoji Anjoh beat Hiromitsu Kanehara (7:54) via submission.

5. Billy Scott beat Tatsuo Nakano (9:36) via submission.

6. Naoki Sano beat Yoshihiro Takayama (17:03) via submission.

7. Kiyoshi Tamura TKO Dan Severn (7:14).

8. Kazuo Yamazaki beat Masahito Kakihara (14:12) via submission.

9. Gary Albright beat Nobuhiko Takada (15:20) via submission.

 

This is probably the biggest win of Tamura’s career at this point since the Yamazaki match in 1992. But Severn doesn’t mean as much as he did 18months before this. And Takada vs Albright is the draw anyway.

 

January 16, 1995 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 16,500

1. Gong Yuttachai beat Rodney Brockfield in a "kickboxing" match.

2. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Kenichi Yamamoto.

3. Yoshihiro Takayama beat Tom Burton.

4. Tatsuo Nakano beat Bad News Allen.

5. Masahito Kakihara & Yoji Anjoh beat Naoki Sano & Kazushi Sakuraba.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Gene Lydick.

7. Kazuo Yamazaki & James Stone (Little Guido) beat Nobuhiko Takada & Billy Scott (1:03) when Yamazaki forced Scott to submit.

8. UWFI World Champ Super Vader beat Gary Albright (11:25) via submission.

 

Vader vs Albright is obviously the draw. Tamura’s in a nothing match.

 

February 18, 1995 in Tokyo, Japan
NK Hall drawing 7,000

1. Tatsuo Nakano beat Kenichi Yamamoto.

2. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Tom Burton.

3. Yoshihiro Takayama beat James Stone.

4. Yoji Anjoh beat Kazushi Sakuraba.

5. Billy Scott beat Yuko Miyato.

6. Naoki Sano beat Gene Lydick.

7. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Masahito Kakihara (2:06) via submission.

8. Nobuhiko Takada beat Kazuo Yamazaki (4:36).

 

This is a sell out. They have been doing Takada vs Yamazaki for 11 years by 1995. I bet Tamura vs Kakihara was talked about as the new era of Takada vs Yamazaki when this show was promoted.

 

April 20, 1995 in Nagoya, Japan
Rainbow Hall drawing 8,100

1. Tom Burton beat Kenichi Yamamoto.

2. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat James Stone.

3. Gene Lydick beat Yuko Miyato.

4. Yoji Anjoh beat Tatsuo Nakano.

5. Kiyoshi Tamura & Kazuo Yamazaki beat Yoshihiro Takayama & Kazushi Sakuraba.

6. Masahito Kakihara beat Naoki Sano.

7. Gary Albright beat Billy Scott.

8. Nobuhiko Takada KO Super Vader (15:40) to win the UWFI World Title.

 

The fact that UWFi has stopped running Budokan and Castle Hall every show and that Takada vs Vader is only drawing 8,000 (down 38,000 fans in less than 18 months) fans really goes to show that the UWFi isn’t what it was in 1993.

 

May 17, 1995 in Osaka, Japan
Furitsu Gym drawing 6,000

1. Kenichi Yamamoto beat James Stone.

2. Yoshihiro Takayama & Kazushi Sakuraba beat Hiromitsu Kanehara & Tom Burton.

3. Gene Lydick beat Tatsuo Nakano.

4. Billy Scott & Naoki Sano beat Yoji Anjoh & Yuko Miyato.

5. Kazuo Yamazaki beat Kiyoshi Tamura.

6. Masahito Kakihara beat Gary Albright (11:06) via submission.

7. Nobuhiko Takada beat Joe Malenko (21:36) via submission.

 

Honestly, Yamazaki vs Tamura is the most interesting looking match on the show from a fan interest perspective. I don’t know what Joe Malenko meant at this point.

 

 

 

June 18, 1995 in Tokyo, Japan
Sumo Hall drawing 11,000

1. Kenichi Yamamoto drew Steve Nelson (15:00).

2. Kazushi Sakuraba beat James Stone (6:59) via submission.

3. Hiromitsu Kanehara & Billy Scott beat Gene Lydick & Tatsuo Nakano (16:25) when Scott forced Lydick to submit.

4. Yuko Miyato beat Tom Burton (6:32) via submission.

5. Yoshihiro Takayama KO Kazuo Yamazaki (6:25).

6. Naoki Sano beat Yoji Anjoh (12:37) via submission.

7. Kiyoshi Tamura KO Gary Albright (9:34).

8. UWFI World Champ Nobuhiko Takada KO Masahito Kakihara (6:41).

 

This is the famous “BREAK GARY BREAK” match where Albright wouldn’t cooperate. Very very ood. Any match against Albright in UWfi is a fairly big match since he’s been primarily the #1 gaijin for the history of UWFi. But Kakihara has been getting a big push and Takada is Takada.

July 13, 1995 in Shizuoka, Japan
Industrial Hall drawing 3,500

1. Kazushi Sakuraba beat Kenichi Yamamoto.

2. Tatsuo Nakano beat Steve Nelson.

3. Yoji Anjoh & Yoshihiro Takayama beat Hiromitsu Kanehara & Masahito Kakihara.

4. Naoki Sano beat James Stone.

5. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Joe Malenko (18:14) via submission. .

 

Main event against Joe Malenko in 1995 drawing 3,500 fans on a show without Takada might actually sound impressive. But, ignoring 3 Korakuen Hall shows, this is tied for the smallest UWFi crowd since 6/28/92. So I wouldn’t give Tamura much credit for anything related to this show even if “vs Joe Malenko in 1995 drawing 3000+ without Takada” might on the surface sound kinda impressive.

 

 

July 22, 1995 in Fukuoka, Japan
Hakata Star Lanes drawing 2,500

1. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Kenichi Yamamoto.

2. Steve Nelson beat James Stone.

3. Yoshihiro Takayama beat Tatsuo Nakano.

4. Naoki Sano & Kazushi Sakuraba beat Joe Malenko & Yoji Anjoh.

5. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Masahito Kakihara (6:20) via submission.

 

Tamura again gets a main event. If you ignore Korakuen hall shows altogether, this would be tied for their smallest card in history. UWFi ran shows here when they first started up. They’re back now.

 

August 18, 1995 in Tokyo, Japan
NK Hall drawing 6,000

1. Kenichi Yamamoto beat Tom Burton.

2. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Kazushi Sakuraba.

3. Naoki Sano beat Yoshihiro Takayama.

4. Masahito Kakihara beat Yoji Anjoh.

5. Nobuhiko Takada beat Tatsuo Nakano.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Gary Albright (6:24) via submission.

 

Takada is back, but he’s in a nothing match and this is,the rematch of “BREAK GARY BREAK.” NK Hall holds 7,000 so they fail to sell out but that’s a pretty good number without any sort of support especially with UWFi crumbling financially.

UWFi was having serious financial issues at this point and so they entered the New Japan feud. Tamura didn’t want to associate with fake pro wrestling and didn’t appear on any of the New Japan vs UWFi cards. Which is unfortunate because it was a huge financial success with 3 of the biggest shows in Japanese wrestling history. I’m not sure if he was actually injured but Tamura didn’t appear again until 3/1/96:

 

March 1, 1996 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 16,500

1. Tatsuo Nakano beat Kenichi Yamamoto.

2. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Kazushi Sakuraba (8:42) via submission.

3. Masahito Kakihara beat Shinjiro Ohtani (7:55) via submission.

4. Champo beat Hiromitsu Kanehara via decision in a "kickboxing" match.

5. Yoji Anjoh & Yoshihiro Takayama beat Kazuo Yamazaki & Takashi Iizuka (12:42) when Anjoh forced Yamazaki to submit.

6. Keiji Mutoh beat Naoki Sano (14:30) via submission.

7. IWGP Champ Nobuhiko Takada beat Shiro Koshinaka (10:53) via submission.

 

March 23, 1996 in Sendai, Japan
Miyagi Sports Center drawing 4,500

1. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Kazushi Sakuraba.

2. Yoshihiro Takayama beat Tatsuo Nakano.

3. Kengo Kimura beat Hiromitsu Kanehara.

4. Masahito Kakihara beat Akitoshi Saito.

5. Akira Nogami & Kuniaki Kobayashi beat Kenichi Yamamoto & Yoji Anjoh.

6. Nobuhiko Takada & Yuhi Sano beat Shiro Koshinaka & Michiyoshi Ohara (12:46) when Takada forced Ohara to submit.

April 19, 1996 in Osaka, Japan
Furitsu Gym drawing 7,000

1. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Billy Scott.

2. Tokimitsu Ishizawa beat Kazushi Sakuraba.

3. Yoshihiro Takayama beat Tatsuhito Takaiwa.

4. Masahito Kakihara beat Yuji Nagata.

5. Tatsuo Nakano & Yuhi Sano beat Kenichi Yamamoto & Yoji Anjoh.

6. Riki Choshu & Kensuke Sasaki beat Nobuhiko Takada & Hiromitsu Kanehara (10:40) when Sasaki pinned Kanehara.

May 27, 1996 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 15,300

1. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Kazushi Sakuraba (9:01) via submission.

2. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Akira Nogami (5:25) via submission.

3. Yuhi (Naoki) Sano beat Kenichi Yamamoto (6:02) via submission.

4. Koki Kitihara beat Tatsuo Nakano (6:35) via submission.

5. Yoji Anjoh & Yoshihiro Takayama beat Gedo & Hiromichi Fuyuki when Anjoh forced Gedo to submit.

6. Shiro Koshinaka pinned Masahito Kakihara (6:22).

7. Nobuhiko Takada KO Yoshiaki Fujiwara (9:46).

 

Tamura’s last matches in UWFi are all on decent sized to big shows, but he’s in the undercard every show.

 

From here Tamura jumps over to RINGS. So lets take a look…

 

Spoiler

June 29, 1996 in Tokyo, Japan
NK Hall drawing 6,700

1. Willie Peeters KO Wataru Sakata (10:08).

2. Masayuki Naruse KO Todor Todorov (8:36).

3. Bitsadze Ameran KO Dennis Raven (4:21).

4. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Dick Leon-Vrij (3:41) via submission.

5. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka beat Jacob Hamilton (5:10) via submission.

6. Volk Han beat Mitsuya Nagai (11:47) via submission.

7. Yoshihisa Yamamoto beat Maurice Smith (30:00) via decision.

 

He debuts in RINGS in the mid-card, but honestly that’s a really interesting match against Dick Leon-Vrij. This is a near sell out and Tamura debuting against Vrij is more interesting than anything except Yamamoto vs Smith. Han vs Nagai had happened at least 3 other times.

 

 

July 16, 1996 in Osaka, Japan
Furitsu Gym drawing 4,080

1. Wataru Sakata beat Valentijn Overeem (6:42) via submission.

2. Masayuki Naruse beat Sergei Sousserov (12:48) via submission.

3. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Willie Peeters (10:47) via submission.

4. Dick Leon-Vrij KO Christopher Haseman (3:08).

5. Bitsadze Tariel KO Joop Kasteel (7:47).

6. Volk Han TKO Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (11:23).

7. Hans Nyman TKO Yoshihisa Yamamoto (2:35).

 

Another mid card match placement, this time against a much less compelling wrestler with more interesting matches on the show. Furitsu Gym holds at least 7,000 people so this isn’t a very good number.

 

August 24, 1996 in Tokyo, Japan
Ariake Coliseum drawing 9,000

1. Willie Peeters beat Wataru Sakata (18:31) via submission.

2. Masayuki Naruse beat Egan Inoue (11:51) via DQ.

3. Walter Schnaubelt beat Vladimir Klementiev (5th) via decision in a "kyokushin karate" match.

4. Mitsuya Nagai beat Dick Leon-Vrij (6:16) via submission.

5. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Maurice Smith (10:58) via submission in a "vale tudo" match.

6. Adilson Lima beat Mikhail Ilioukhine (24:52) via submission in a "vale tudo" match.

7. Volk Han beat Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (13:52) via submission.

8. Ricardo Morias TKO Yoshihisa Yamamoto (0:46) in a "vale tudo" match.

 

Nice sized show. Tamura vs Smith is a shoot fight. Its in the mid card and I’m not sure if it could be credited as a draw. There are a number of shoot matches on this show so that could play a part in the large for RINGS at this time crowd.

 

September 25, 1996 in Sapporo, Japan
Nakajima Sports Center drawing 3,853

1. Peter Dijkman TKO Wataru Sakata (5:26).

2. Christopher Haseman KO Masayuki Naruse (9:12).

3. Mitsuya Nagai KO Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (11:05).

4. Bitsadze Tariel KO Hans Nyman (5:19).

5. Volk Han beat Kiyoshi Tamura (10:32) via submission.

6. Andrei Kopilov beat Yoshihisa Yamamoto (12:33) via submission.

 

The first Tamura vs Han classic is 2^nd from the top on this show drawing less than 4,000 in a building that holds at least 5,500. Kopilov vs Yamamoto is an interesting match, but Han vs Tamura feels like it would be the draw.

 

October 25, 1996 in Nagoya, Japan
Aichi Gym drawing 4,896

1. Gogitidze Bakouri beat Todor Todorov (8:09) via submission.

2. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka beat Dick Leon-Vrij (5:35) via submission.

3. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Mikhail Ilioukhine (14:40) via submission.

4. Mitsuya Nagai beat Willie Peeters (9:36) via submission.

5. Bitsadze Tariel TKO Nikolai Zouev (5:34).

6. Volk Han beat Masayuki Naruse (10:24) via submission.

7. Yoshihisa Yamamoto beat David Khakhaleshvili (2:24) via submission.

8. Akira Maeda beat Andrei Kopilov (4:54) via submission.

 

Tamura in the undercard against an interesting opponent. Maeda returns and this looks like a decent number. Any clue how big this building is?

 

November 22, 1996 in Osaka, Japan
Castle Hall drawing 7,880

1. Nikolai Zouev beat Wataru Sakata (10:01) via submission.

2. Dick Leon-Vrij TKO Masayuki Naruse (6:16).

3. Yoshihisa Yamamoto beat Gogitidze Bakouri (4:52) via submission.

4. Bitsadze Tariel KO Hans Nyman (10:11).

5. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Mitsuya Nagai (6:13) via submission.

6. Volk Han beat Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (10:27) via submission.

7. Akira Maeda beat Yoshiaki Fujiwara (10:55) via submission.

 

Castle Hall holds 14,000 fans so even if RINGS was still running with higher than normal for wrestling ticket prices, this is a barely half full building. Tamura vs Nagai isn’t as interesting as Han vs Kohsaka or Maeda vs Fujiwara.

 

December 19, 1996 in Fukuoka, Japan
International Center drawing 5,680

1. Masayuki Naruse KO Dick Leon-Vrij (6:01).

2. Gogitidze Bakouri beat Mitsuya Nagai (8:59) via submission.

3. Hans Nyman KO Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (9:24).

4. Maurice Smith beat Bitsadze Ameran (4:54) via submission.

5. Volk Han beat Bitsadze Tariel (6:17) via submission.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Yoshihisa Yamamoto (9:49) via submission..

7. Akira Madea beat Vladimir Klementiev (3:17) via submission.

 

The biggest number I’ve seen for RINGS in this building was 7,526 on 10/23/93 so this isn’t a super number but Tamura vs Yamamoto & Han vs Tariel feel like strong support for a Maeda main event. Feels like a solid number for this time period even though they failed to sell out.

 

January 22, 1997 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 11,800

1. Wataru Sakata beat Sean McCulley (19:41) via submission.

2. Grom Zaza beat Masayuki Naruse (10:120 via submission.

3. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka beat Mikhail Ilioukhine (10:04) via submission.

4. Nikolai Zouev beat Mitsuya Nagai (13:01) via submission.

5. Akira Maeda beat Maurice Smith (5:35) via submission.

6. Bitsadze Tariel TKO Yoshohisa Yamamoto (6:19) for third place in the Mega Battle Tournament 1996.

7. Volk Han beat Kiyoshi Tamura (12:36) via submission to win the Mega Battle Tournament 1996.

 

Tamura vs Han meet in the finals of the Rings Mega Battle Tournament. The fail to sell out Budokan on the one hand. On the other hand 11,800 is a pretty good number. RINGS has drawn better for Tournament finals at Budokan before this and actually worse. Maeda vs Bitszade Tariel in the tournament final in 1994 drew 10,360. So even though this is a knee jerk terrible looking number, I feel okayish calling this solid.

 

March 28, 1997 in Tokyo, Japan
NK Hall drawing 6,872

1. Minoru Tanaka KO Todor Todorov (15:49).

2. Willie Peeters beat Christopher Haseman (6:12) via submission.

3. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka beat Bitsadze Tariel (8:11) via submission.

4. Yoshihisa Yamamoto beat Hans Nyman (8:02) via submission.

5. Akira Maeda beat Kiyoshi Tamura (7:54) via submission.

 

Near sell out as Tamura meets Maeda in a main event.

 

April 4, 1997 in Tokyo, Japan
Korakuen Hall drawing 1,888

1. Sanae Kikuta beat Kaichi Tsuji (8:33) via submission.

2. Lee Hasdell beat Sean McCulley (3:59) via submission.

3. Masayuki Naruse TKO Valentijn Overeem (12:05).

4. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Christopher Haseman (6:52) via submission.

5. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka beat Yoshihisa Yamamoto (30:00) via decision.

 

Tamura in the semi main against a not very interesting opponent underneath Kohsaka vs Yamamoto. No Maeda or Han and RINGS fails to sell out Korakuen Hall.

 

April 22, 1997 in Osaka, Japan
Furitsu Gym drawing 4,870

1. Christopher Haseman beat Sean McCulley via forfeit.

2. Dick Leon-Vrij TKO Tony Halme (2:40).

3. Joop Kasteel TKO Mitsuya Nagai (6:27).

4. Yoshihisa Yamamoto beat Masayuki Naruse (21:20) via submission.

5. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (13:57) via submission.

6. Christopher Haseman TKO Alexander Otsuka (7:03).

7. Volk Han beat Akira Maeda (8:47) via submission.

 

Maeda returns to face Han. Tamura vs Kohsaka is a strong supporting match and Maeda vs Han is one of the bigger matches RINGs can run even if it is played out by 97. But Furitsu holds at least 7,000 so this isn’t a really great number all things considered.

 

May 23, 1997 in Sendai, Japan
Miyagi Sports Center drawing 3,850

1. Masayuki Naruse beat Willie Peeters (7:22) via submission.

2. Mitsuya Nagai beat Valentijn Overeem (4:58) via submission.

3. Yoshihisa Yamamoto beat Herman Renting (3:17) via submission.

4. Kiyoshi Tamura KO Grom Zaza (8:15).

5. Volk Han beat Joop Kasteel (5:09) via submission.

6. Akira Maeda beat Bitsadze Tariel (7:18) vi asubmission.

Its kinda hard to give Tamura any sort of credit on shows like this and its small anyway. I lean towards saying Maeda vs Tariel was the match that sold the show but I do think Tamura vs Grom probably had some value. Hard to say about Joop Kasteel.

 

June 21, 1997 in Tokyo, Japan
Ariake Coliseum drawing 9,188

1. Wataru Sakata beat Yuri Bekichev (3:54) via submission.

2. Masayuki Naruse beat Lee Hasdell (12:58) via submission.

3. Mitsuya Nagai beat Andre Mannart (0:20) via submision.

4. Ricardo Morais drew Yuri Korchikin (20:00) in a "vale tudo" match.

5. Adilson Lima TKO Alexander Fedorov (10:10) in a "vale tudo" match.

6. Yoshihisa Yamamoto beat Maurice Smith (6:00) via submission.

7. Nikolai Zouev beat Kiyoshi Tamura (10:30).

 

This is a feather in Tamura’s cap. RINGS ran Ariake Coliseum a lot. They had their first anniversary show there. They usually ran two shows a year there one in May or June and another in usually December sometimes November. This is actually the best number they’ve had in this building since 5/16/92 when the 1^st Anniversary Show drew 10,369 for Akira Maeda vs Hank Neumann. The year before Now, the 1996 show drew 9,000 fans and included these weirdo people like Ricardo Marais and Adilson Lima competing in Vale Tudo matches. Tamura vs Zouev is a good match, but I kind of question its status as the draw on the show. I’d love to give Tamura all the credit for it, but can anyone shed some light on the “vale tudo” guys? I feel like they may have something to do with this show doing so well.

 

July 22, 1997 in Osaka, Japan
Furitsu Gym drawing 4,500

1. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka beat Grom Zaza (9:26) via submission.

2. Christopher Haseman beat Minoru Tanaka (9:07) via submission.

3. Masayuki Naruse beat Wataru Sakata (5:55) via submission.

4. Yoshihisa Yamamoto beat Mitsuya Nagai (2:27) via submission.

5. Akira Maeda beat Hans Nyman (9:04) via submission.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura TKO Bitsadze Tariel (13:32).

 

About average what they’re doing in this building around this time. This place holds 7,000 so this isn’t a great number even with Maeda returning.

 

August 13, 1997 in Kagoshima, Japan
Kagoshima Arena drawing 3,380

1. Mitsuya Nagai beat Mikhail Simov (6:38) vi asubmission.

2. Wataru Sakata beat Minoru Tanaka (5:03) via submission for third place in the RINGs Light Heavyweight Title Tournament.

3. Masayuki Naruse TKO Christopher Haseman (14:26) to become first RINGs Light Heavyweight Champ.

4. Hans Nyman TKO Kiyoshi Tamura (9:03).

5. Akira Maeda beat Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (9:14) via submission.

6. Yoshihisa Yamamoto TKO Volk Han (11:30).

 

Top 3 matches are strong so I wonder how big this building is.

 

September 26, 1997 in Sapporo, Japan
Nakajima Sports Center drawing 4,820

1. Yuri Korchikin beat Malcolm Nay (4:33) via submission.

2. Pete Williams TKO Joop Kasteel (8:25).

3. Wataru Sakata beat Valentijn Overeem (2:16) via submission..

4. Frank Shamrock beat Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (30:00) via decision.

5. Akira Maeda beat Andrei Kopilov (8:32) via submission.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Volk Han (12:48) via submission.

 

This building holds at least 5,500. But this is close to a sell out. Maeda vs Kopilov was a major match in the early days of RINGS but you have to give Tamura vs Han the credit here considering their first two matches were so well regarded.

 

October 14, 1997 in Tokyo, Japan
Korakuen Hall drawing 1,860

1. Sanae Kikuta beat Minoru Tanaka (2nd - 3:08) via submission.

2. Alexander Otsuka KO Christopher Haseman (18:10).

3. Wataru Sakata beat Dominque Deligny (4:02) via submission.

4. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Elvis Sinosic (10:11) via submission.

5. Willie Peeters TKO Masayuki Naruse (16:44).

Tamura faces RINGS newcomer 2^nd from the top on a shitty card without Maeda, Han, Kohsaka, Yamamoto, Kopilov, Tariel, Zouev, Ilioukhine or Dick Leon-Vrij to name a bunch of people fails to sell out Korakuen Hall.

 

October 25, 1997 in Tokyo, Japan
NK Hall drawing 6,620

1. Joop Kasteel beat Lee Hasdell (8:55) via submission.

2. Mikhail Ilioukhine beat Masayuki Naruse (12:28) via submission.

3. Mitsuya Nagai beat Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (9:19) via submission.

4. Dick Leon-Virj beat Bitsadze Tariel (6:01) via submission.

5. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka beat Boris Jeliazkov (30:00) via decision.

6. Akira Maeda beat Nikolai Zouev (5:17) via submission.

7. Volk Han beat Andrei Kopilov (10:52) via submission.

8. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Hans Nyman (10:34) via submission.

 

Hey look, everybody’s back! This building holds at least 7,000 but I think that’s it. So this is a near sell out and actually the 2^nd best number RINGS has ever done in this building. Tamura vs Nyman is a solid main event and there’s a ton of familiar names all over this card.

 

November 20, 1997 in Osaka, Japan
Chuo Gym drawing 5,110

1. Gilbert Yvel KO Lev Barkala (10:47).

2. Masayuki Naruse beat Mohammad Yone (5:35) via submission.

3. Mikhail Ilioukhine beat Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (14:16) via submission.

4. Akira Maeda beat Mitsuya Nagai (17:00) via submission.

5. Volk Han beat Dick Leon-Vrij (7:15) via submission.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Joop Kasteel (6:30) via submission.

 

No clue how big this building is but this feels like a solid number with another pretty loaded card.

 

December 23, 1997 in Fukuoka, Japan
International Center drawing 6,800

1. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka beat Christopher Haseman (11:12) via submission.

2. RINGs Light Heavyweight Champ Masayuki Naruse beat Wataru Sakata (12:10) via submission.

3. Sean Alvares beat Willie Peeters (9:40) via submission in a "vale tudo" match.

4. Grom Zaza beat Ricardo Morais (20:00) via unanimous decision in a "vale tudo" match.

5. Mikhail Ilioukhine TKO Volk Han (9:36).

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Akira Maeda (6:30) via submission..

 

RINGS runs this building every year and this is the 2^nd biggest number they’ve done there up to this point. The biggest being the 10/23/93 show drawing 7,526 to see Maeda take on someone named Sotir Gotchev. Ricardo Morais is noticeable because he seems to pop up on these RINGS shows that do well, but Tamura vs Maeda is a big main event for RINGS, random Vale Tudo guys or not.

 

January 21, 1998 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 9,200

1. Wataru Sakata beat Herman Renting (3:24) via submission.

2. Masayuki Naruse beat Dominque Deligny (19:24) via submission.

3. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka beat Sione Latu (1:58) via submission.

4. Bitsadze Tariel TKO Hans Nyman (6:31).

5. Akira Maeda beat Volk Han (4:24) via submission for third place in the Mega Battle Tournament 1997.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Mikhail Ilioukhine (18:12) via submission to win the Mega Battle Tournament 1997 and become the first RINGs Openweight Champ.

 

Yeesh. This isn’t a great number considering its Budokan Hall and the building holds 16,000+. That said, Ilioukhine isn’t exactly the worlds best possible opponent (ignoring match quality, because he WAS the best possible opponent on this night) and Han vs Maeda goes back 6+ years by 98. So its not a HORRIBLE figure. Fuck it. I’m not defending 9200 at Budokan.

 

March 3, 1998 in Tokyo, Japan
Korakuen Hall drawing 1,450

1. Akihiro Gono beat Tatsuya Kurahashi (7:07) vi asubmission.

2. Christopher Haseman beat Minoru Tanaka (12:01) via submisison.

3. Alexander Otsuka beat Wataru Sakata (30:00) via decision.

4. Masayuki Naruse beat Troy Ittensohn (8:22) via submission.

5. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Sergei Sousserov (9:27) via submission.

 

Especially when its followed up by another failure to sellout Korakuen. Again though, Tamura got no support on this card in terms of drawing.

 

March 28, 1998 in Tokyo, Japan
NK Hall drawing 6,200

1. Valentijn Overeem TKO Kenichi Yamamoto (6:39).

2. Bob Gilstrap beat Grom Zaza (30:00) via points in a "vale tudo" match.

3. Masayuki Naruse TKO Sander Thonhauser (10:37).

4. Mikhail Ilioukhine beat Hiromitsu Kanehara (14:03) via submission.

5. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka beat Nikolai Zouev (10:20) via submission.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Dick Leon-Vrij (7:46) via submission.

 

Actually a pretty good number in this building at this time without Maeda, Han or Yamamoto with a bunch of repeat matches.

 

April 16, 1998 in Osaka, Japan
Furitsu Gym drawing 7,600

1. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Sander Thonhauser (6:26) via submission.

2. Gogitidze Bakouri beat Wataru Sakata (8:44) via submission.

3. Masayuki Naruse beat Andrei Kopilov (7:19) via submission.

4. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka beat Joop Kasteel (7:49) via submission.

5. Valentijn Overeem beat Kiyoshi Tamura (3:56) via submission.

6. Volk Han beat Akira Maeda (5:43) via submission.

 

Whoa, seemingly out of nowhere, this is a great number with Han vs Maeda on top. Tamura vs Overeem is a shoot I believe and probably deserves some credit as nothing else looks really mind blowing and able to explain this number.

 

May 29, 1998 in Sapporo, Japan
Nakajima Sports Center drawing 3,200

1. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Lee Hasdell (30:00) via decision.

2. Kenichi Yamamoto beat Christopher Haseman (12:39) via submission.

3. Grom Zaza beat Joop Kasteel (5:54) via submission.

4. Mikhail Ilioukhine beat Masayuki Naruse (13:52).

5. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka beat Volk Han (10:10) via submission.

6. Bitsadze Tariel TKO Kyoshi Tamura (3:39) to win the RINGs Openweight Title.

 

And then there’s this. No Maeda and even though its pretty played out by 98, Han vs Kohsaka is always a good match. Tamura vs Tariel in the main and at best this building is half full. Weird.

 

June 27, 1998 in Tokyo, Japan
NK Hall drawing 4,240

1. Yasuhito Namekawa KO Troy Ittensohn (2nd - 1:43).

2. Wataru Sakata beat Willie Peeters (1st - 1:45) via submission.

3. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Sander MacKilljan (1st - 3:25) via submission.

4. Hans Nyman beat Vladimir Klementiev (4:44) via submission.

5. RINGs Light Heavyweight Champ Masayuki Naruse beat Kenichi Yamamoto (11:07) via submission.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura drew Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (30:00).

 

Legendary match between Tamura vs Kohsaka did a terrible number drawing less than 4300 in a building that holds at least 7,000. No Maeda, Volk Han, or Yamamoto or other big name foreigners and this is I want to say the 3^rd Tamura vs Kohsaka match. But still. Not a good number.

 

"Akira Maeda Retirement Show"
July 20, 1998 in Yokohama, Japan
Yokohama Arena drawing 17,800

1. Gilbert Yvel beat Orjal Bekov (1st - 2:28) via submission.

2. Christopher Hazemann TKO Boris Jeliazkov (8:30).

3. Joop Kasteel KO Paul Varelans (7:27).

4. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Dick Leon-Vrij (4:22) via submission.

5. Volk Han beat Kenichi Yamamoto (8:24) via submission.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Wataru Sakata (9:48) via submission.

7. RINGs Openweight Champ Bitsadze Tariel KO Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (7:43).

8. Akira Maeda beat Yoshihisa Yamamoto (20:00) via decision.

 

Oh shit, looks who’s back. Tamura is 3^rd from the top against a young boy as Maeda sells out Yokohoma.

 

August 28, 1998 in Niigata, Japan
City Gym drawing 3,480

1. Yasuhito Namekawa beat Daniel Higgins (14:28) via submission.

2. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Grom Zaza (10:17) via submission.

3. Yoshihisa Yamamoto beat Nikolai Zouev (13:30) via submission.

4. Wataru Sakata beat Kenichi Yamamoto (20:00) via points.

5. Bitsadze Tariel KO Volk Han (4:06).

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Masayuki Naruse (24:33) via submission.

 

No clue how big this building is, but its always ugly following “17,000” with “3,480.”

 

September 21, 1998 in Yokohama, Japan
Bunka Gym drawing 4,170

1. Yasuhito Namekawa beat Ryuki Ueyama (15:00) via points.

2. Lee Hasdell KO Kenichi Yamamoto (10:56).

3. Wataru Sakata TKO Christopher Haseman (12:21).

4. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Willie Peeters (6:57) via submission.

5. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka beat Mikhail Ilioukhine (12:00) via submission.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Yoshihisa Yamamoto (18:52) via submission.

 

The biggest show I can find in this building from RINGS is 4/24/93 on a show without Maeda headlined by Volk Han vs Mitsuya Nagai which drew 4760. So we know this isn’t a sell out which has got to be disappointing considering Tamura & Yamamoto are two of the top 3 natives in the company with Maeda retired.

 

October 23, 1998 in Nagoya, Japan
Aichi Gym drawing 4,550

1. Masayuki Naruse beat Yasuhito Namekawa (4:50) via submission.

2. Team Netherlands (Hans Nyman, Dick Leon-Vrij, & Joop Kasteel) beat Russia "A" Team (Volk Han, Mikhail Ilioukhine, & Sergei Sousserov).

o Nyman KO Sousserov (2:59).

o Ilioukhine beat Nyman (2:54) via submission.

o Leon-Vrij KO Ilioukhine (2:50).

o Han beat Leon-Vrij (2:01) via submission.

o Kasteel KO Han (2:21).

3. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Vladimir Klementiev (7:51) via submission.

4. Japan "A" Team (Yoshihisa Yamamoto, Hiromitsu Kanehara, & Wataru Sakata) beat Team Bulgaria (Dimitri Petkov, Todor Todorov, & Boris Jeliazkov).

o Sakata beat Todorov (5:14) via submission.

o Yamamoto KO Jeliazkov (6:01).

o Petkov beat Yamamoto (3:32) via submission.

o Kanehara beat Petkov (4:55) via submission.

 

No clue how big the building is or how to judge who/what the draw is.

 

November 20, 1998 in Osaka, Japan
Furitsu Gym drawing 4,380

1. Yasuhito Namekawa drew Lee Hasdell (20:00).

2. Team Georgia (Bitsadze Tariel, Grom Zaza, & Bitsadze Ameran) beat Team Australia (Christopher Haseman, Daniel Higgins, & Troy Ittensohn).

o Tariel beat Higgins (0:22) via submission.

o Tariel TKO Ittensohn (0:42).

o Haseman TKO Tariel (1:57).

o Ameran TKO Haseman (1:32).

3. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Dave van der Veen (7:24) via submisison.

4. Russia "B" Team (Nikolai Zouev, Andrei Kopilov, & Vladimir Klementiev) beat Japan "B" Team (Kyoshi Tamura, Tsuyoshi Kohsaka, & Masayuki Naruse).

o Naruse TKO Klementiev (2:16).

o Kopilov TKO Naruse (2:32) via submission.

o Tamura beat Kopilov (1:35) via submission.

o Zouev beat Tamura (3:17) via submission.

o Zouev beat Kohsaka (10:00) via points.

 

This time Tamura’s in the big tournament thing on a show that is again about 3,200 people away from selling out this mid sized building.

 

December 23, 1998 in Fukuoka, Japan
International Center drawing 5,500

1. Team Netherlands (Hans Nyman, Dick Leon-Vrij, & Joop Kasteel) beat Japan "A" Team (Yoshihisa Yamamoto, Hiromitsu Kanehara, & Wataru Sakata).

o Sakata TKO Leon-Vrij (12:29).

o Kanehara beat Nyman (9:04) via submission.

o Kasteel TKO Masayuki Naruse (8:33).

2. Kiyoshi Tamura TKO Kenichi Yamamoto (11:26).

3. Team Georgia (Bitsadze Tariel, Grom Zaza, & Bitsadze Ameran) beat Russia "B" Team (Nikolai Zouev, Andrei Kopilov, & Vladimir Klementiev).

o Zouev TKO Ameran (4:01).

o Zaza beat Zouev (2:28) via submission.

o Kopilov TKO Zaza (4:12).

o Tariel KO Kopilov (2:18).

o Tariel beat Klementiev (5:17) via submission.

 

More of the weirdo tournament shit for the Mega battle Tournament. About 2,000 away from the best RINGS number in this building with Tamura vs Yamamoto a strong supporting match to the tournament.

 

January 23, 1999 in Tokyo, Japan
Budokan Hall drawing 10,500

1. Yasuhito Namekawa beat Lee Hasdell (20:00) via points.

2. Willie Peeters TKO Kenichi Yamamoto (13:45).

3. Wataru Sakata beat Dave van der Veen (2:41) via submission.

4. Volk Han beat Hiromitsu Kanehara (13:32) via submission.

5. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka beat Kiyoshi Tamura (9:42) via submission.

6. Team Georgia (Bitsadze Tariel, Grom Zaza, Bitsadze Ameran) beat Team Netherlands (Hans Nyman, Dick Leon-Vrij, & Joop Kasteel) to win the Mega Battle Tournament 1998. Zaza TKO Vrij (1:22). Kasteel beat Zaza (3:32) via submission. Kasteel beat Ameran (2:46) via submission. Tariel KO Kasteel (1:30) . Tariel KO Nyman (2:50).

 

Tamura vs Kohsaka is a strong match to help the tournament and this is up from the previous year’s terrible Budokan number. Still. It’s hard to call this anything but a disappointing number considering the size of the building.

 

February 21, 1999 in Yokohama, Japan
Yokohama Arena drawing 17,048 ($2,479,000)

1. Yasuhito Namekawa beat Ryuki Ueyama (20:00) via points.

2. Yoshihisa Yamamoto beat Andrei Kopilov (6:55) via submission.

3. Volk Han beat Nikolia Zouev (1st - 4:49) via submission.

4. Sean Alvarez beat Wataru Sakata (20:00) via decision in a "vale tudo" match.

5. Ricardo Morias beat Hiromitsu Kanehara (20:00) via decision in a "vale tudo" match.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Valentijn Overeem (6:08) via submission.

7. Alexander Karelin beat Akira Maeda (2nd) via points.

 

But this is not a disappointing number. Tamura’s in the semi-main, but lets be real. This is all about Maeda vs Karelin

 

March 22, 1999 in Tokyo, Japan
NK Hall drawing 4,502

1. Christopher Haseman beat Yasuhito Namekawa (7:42) via submission.

2. Boris Jeliazkov beat Wataru Sakata (8:28) via submission.

3. Masayuki Naruse beat Dave van der Veen (7:36) via submisson.

4. Yoshihisa Yamamoto beat Valentijn Overeem (2:40) via submission.

5. Mikhail Ilioukhine beat Randy Couture (7:43) via submission.

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Hiromitsu Kanehara (20:14) via submission.

 

Look its Randy Couture! 2500 away from a sellout with Tamura main eventing against former UWFi wrestler Kanehara

 

April 23, 1999 in Osaka, Japan
Furitsu Gym drawing 3,870

1. Lee Hasdell beat Ryuki Ueyama (4:18) via DQ.

2. Grom Zaza TKO Sander Thonhauser (4:02).

3. Christopher Haseman beat Masayuki Naruse (13:18) via submission.

4. Yoshihisa Yamamoto KO Joop Kasteel (7:32).

5. Gilbert Yvel TKO Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (19:58).

6. Kiyoshi Tamura drew Frank Shamrock (20:00).

 

Shoot against Frank Shamrock as Furitsu goes down even further. Creeping towards a half empty building.

 

May 22, 1999 in Tokyo, Japan
Ariake Coliseum drawing 6,820

1. Yasuhito Namekawa beat Sara Umer (3:09) via submission.

2. Valentijn Overeem TKO Hiromitsu Kanehara (4:35).

3. Volk Han beat Masayuki Naruse (7:46) via submission.

4. Mikhail Ilioukhine beat Joop Kasteel (9:40) via submission.

5. Yoshihisa Yamamoto KO Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (15:41).

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Bitsaze Tariel (9:19) via submission to win the RINGS Openweight Title.

 

After not running a show at Ariake in 1998, RINGS returns in 1999 with a bunch of matches they’ve run before and have their worst number ever in the building with Tamura vs Tariel in the main event.

 

June 24, 1999 in Tokyo, Japan
Korakuan Hall drawing 2,020

1. Ryuki Ueyama beat Willie Peeters (18:05) via DQ.

2. Yasuhito Namekawa beat Minoru Toyonaga (9:51) via submission.

3. Wataru Sakata beat Boris Jeliazkov (6:49) via submission.

4. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Masayuki Naruse (30:00) via points.

5. Grom Zaza beat Volk Han (30:00) via points.

6. Joop Kasteel beat Bitsadze Tariel (6:01) via submission.

7. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Yoshihisa Yamamoto (20:00) via decision.

 

All time classic main event draws I assume a sell out in Korakuen. I’ve seen better figures for the building but I know its around 2000.

 

August 19, 1999 in Yokohama, Japan
Bunka Gym drawing 4,670

1. Ryuki Ueyama beat Yasuhito Namekawa (20:00) via points.

2. Christopher Haseman beat Willie Peeters (3:13) via submission.

3. Lee Hasdell beat Ricardo Fyeet (15:01) via submission.

4. Hiromitsu Kanehara beat Wataru Sakata (20:00) via points.

5. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka TKO Gilbert Yvel (8:17).

6. RINGs Openweight Champ Kiyoshi Tamura beat Joop Kasteel (12:17) via submission.

 

Near sellout in Bunka with Tamura in the main event!

 

December 22, 1999 in Osaka, Japan
Furitsu Gym drawing 5,100

1. Andrei Kopilov beat Leonardo Castello Branco (1st - 0:16) via submission.

2. Ricardo Fyeet KO Tyrone Roberts (2nd - 0:09).

3. Maurice Smith beat Brandon Lee Hinckle (2nd) via split decision.

4. Renzo Grace beat Wataru Sakata (1st - 1:25) via submission.

5. Gilbert Yvel beat Bitsadze Tariel (1st - 2:18) via submission.

6. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka beat Christopher Haseman (3rd) via split decision.

7. Boris Jeliazkov beat Tim Lajcik (1st - 2:23) via submission.

8. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Dave Menne (2nd) via unanimous decision.

9. Andrei Kopilov beat Ricardo Fyeet (1st - 0:08) via submission.

10. Renzo Grace beat Maurice Smith (1st - 0:50) via submission.

11. Gilbert Yvel TKO Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (1st - 1:17).

12. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Boris Jeliazkov (2nd - 1:17) via submission.

 

Furutisu is still about 2300 short of a sellout, but is up substantially from their last show in the building.

 

February 26, 2000 in Tokyo, Japan
Buodokan Hall drawing 13,000

1. Renato Babalu beat Mikhail Illoukhine (3rd - 0:40) via submission.

2. Dan Henderson beat Gilbert Yvel (2nd) via unanimous decision.

3. Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera beat Andrei Kopilov (2nd) via split decision.

4. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Renzo Gracie (2nd) via unanimous decision.

5. Bobby Hoffman KO Grom Zaza (1st - 0:34).

6. Dan Henderson beat Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera (3rd) via split decision.

7. Renato Babalu beat Kiyoshi Tamura (2nd) via split decision.

8. Christopher Haseman beat Brad Kohler (1st - 1:01) via submission.

9. Dan Henderson beat Renato Babalu (2nd) via split decision to win the King of Kings Tournament 1999.

 

I’m fairly certain RINGS is full on shoots at this point which makes it kinda suck that they do their best number in Budokan since 1995.

 

April 20, 2000 in Tokyo, Japan
Yoyogi Gym drawing 3,600

1. Allister Overeem beat Yasuhito Namekawa (1st - 0:45) via submission.

2. Wataru Sakata beat Brandon Lee Hinkle (1st - 7:23) via submission.

3. Bobby Hoffman KO Boris Jeliazkov (1st - 8:00).

4. Renato Babalu beat Travis Fulton (1st - 4:49) via submission.

5. Ricardo Arona beat Andrei Kopilov (2nd) via unanimous decision.

6. Jeremy Horn beat Yoshihisa Yamamoto (2nd - 2:50) via submission.

7. Gilbert Yvel TKO Kiyoshi Tamura (1st - 3:13) to win the RINGs Openweight Title.

 

This all looks like shoots to me and no clue how big this building is.

 

August 23, 2000 in Osaka, Japan
Furitsu Gym drawing 4,270

1. Matt Hughes beat Christopher Haseman (2nd) via unanimous decision.

2. Dan Severn beat Andrei Kopilov (2nd) via unanimous decision.

3. Ricardo Arona beat Jeremy Horn (2nd) via split decision.

4. Valentijn Overeem beat Joe Slick (1st - 0:36) via submission.

5. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka drew Antonio Rodrigo Nogueria (2nd).

6. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Pat Miletich (2nd) via split decision.

 

Furitsu is down. But these are all shoots so I don’t know why I’m still going.

October 9, 2000 in Tokyo, Japan
Yoyogi Gym II drawing 4,600

1. Roberto Traven beat Mikhail Borisov (2nd) via unanimous decision.

2. Dave Menne beat Wataru Sakata (2nd) via unanimous decision.

3. Valentijn Overeem TKO Suren Balachinsky (2:13).

4. Renato Babalu beat Bitsadze Tariel (1st - 2:58) via submission.

5. Randy Couture beat Jeremy Horn (3rd) via unanimous decision.

6. Ryushi Yanagisawa beat Boris Jeliazkov (1st - 3:45) via submission.

7. Antonio Nogueira beat Achmed Labasanov (1st - 1:38) via submission.

8. Kiyoshi Tamura beat Grom Zaza (2nd) via unanimous decision.

9. Dave Menne beat Roberto Traven (2nd) via unanimous decision.

10. Valentijn Overeem beat Renato Babalu (1st - 2:19) via submission.

11. Randy Couture beat Ryushi Yanagisawa (2nd) via split decision.

12. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira beat Kiyoshi Tamura (2nd - 2:29) via submission.

 

February 24, 2001 in Tokyo, Japan
Sumo Hall drawing 10,260

1. Hiromitsu Kanehara KO Dave Menne (3rd - 3:24).

2. Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera beat Volk Han (2nd) via unanimous decision.

3. Randy Couture beat Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (2nd) via unanimous decision.

4. Valentijn Overeem beat Yoshihisa Yamamoto (1st - 1:45) via submission.

5. Alistair Overeem beat Vladimir Tchanturia (1st - 1:06) via submission.

6. Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera beat Hiromitsu Kanehara (2nd - 0:27) via submission.

7. Valentijn Overeem beat Randy Couture (1st - 0:56) via submission.

8. Ryushi Yanagisawa beat Wataru Sakata (2nd) via split decision.

9. Renato Babalu beat Kiyoshi Tamura (2nd) via split decision.

10. Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera beat Valentijn Overeem (1st - 1:20) via submission to win the King of Kings Tournament 2000.

 

April 20, 2001 in Tokyo, Japan
Yoyogi Gym drawing 3,670

1. Jiro Wakabayashi drew Naoyuki Kotani (3rd).

2. Yasuhito Namekawa beat Wataru Imamura (1st - 1:48) via submission..

3. Fedor Emelianenko beat Kerry Schall (1st - 1:47) via submission..

4. Jeremy Horn beat Yuri Bekichev (1st - 0:50) via submission.

5. Bobby Hoffman beat Ryushi Yanagisawa (2nd) via unanimous decision.

6. Gustavo Ximu beat Kiyoshi Tamura (2nd) via split decision.

 

I don’t really have much else to say because I don’t consider shoots for the WON HOF. U-Style mostly ran in Korauken Hall and other small buildings. If someone has the numbers, please post them, but I don’t’ know how relevant they’d be in regards to Tamura’s “drawing power" considering they ran such small buildings.

 

 

 

[Matt Farmer]

I still don't see Fujiwara, if he's getting in on work alone. What sets him apart from a dozen other mid-card Japanese wrestlers? He's was no better, and IMO not on the same level as guys like Kuniaki Kobayashi, Kengo Kimura, Animal Hamaguchi, Yoshiaki Yatsu and dozens more.

[PeteF3]

I don't really know how that can be answered besides, "He had more great singles matches than all of those guys combined."

 

Edit: Expanding a bit, here's a breakdown of how Fujiwara did in the Other Japan '80s DVDVR voting. Looking at the results of where his matches placed, he was far and away considered the best worker on that set. Again, not the final word, but strong evidence that this isn't just a random few people who really like him. The people who watched the matches perceived him as not only the best worker of the group but comfortably so.

 

He was also in a 3-way tie for highest-voted wrestler on the New Japan '80s set. (Clarifying, the votes were for matches, not wrestlers--this is a breakdown of how each wrestlers' match placed). Being even with Fujinami is hardly a HOF-level work detriment. Kengo is there too and he was one of the names you listed, but I would argue that Kengo benefited pretty highly from selection bias. His great matches are top-of-the-line great but he was far more likely to look mediocre than either Tatsumi or Yoshiaki and those matches didn't make the set.

 

Bottom line, the Fujiwara worker love isn't exactly new or revisionist. It comes from how well his matches performed in front of a sizable-by-IWC-message-board-standards voting bloc.

[NintendoLogic]

Just out of curiosity, what was the contemporaneous view of Fujiwara as a worker in outlets like the Observer?

[Shrike02]

You should give a podcast with Phil where are you both examine specific Fujiwara matches and go point/counterpoint. It worked well for me.

 

http://placetobenation.com/digging-in-the-crates-7/

 

Bonus points for good taste in books; the Flashman novels are brilliant.

[PeteF3]

Just out of curiosity, what was the contemporaneous view of Fujiwara as a worker in outlets like the Observer?

 

Navigating those pre-computer Observers is a pain but just from looking at the '87 Observer Yearbook, Fujiwara placed #24 in the world in a survey of 30 "responding pro wrestling experts."

[elliott]

To my knowledge, Fujiwara at the time wasn't viewed as anything special. You have to remember a lot of the praised workers at the time from Meltzer were the more fast paced action oriented guys. Fujiwara wasn't a guy known for flashy highspots so he wasn't going to grab the attention of someone like Meltzer or Bowdren or whatever other opinion maker at the time you want to consider.

 

He is truly a revisionist candidate built up by work. He isn't someone you can't really point to as a major draw, but it is super easy to craft an influence argument for him as one of the shoot style founding fathers. I think it is awesome that he is someone who went from being on no one's radar to a strongish HOF candidate for people who have gone back and looked at him. However, I don't expect him to ever have a realistic shot of getting in considering the guy running the show is someone who rejects the idea of revisiting old matches.

 

I couldn't craft an argument for him as a drawing card. However, looking at how he was presented and how the crowd reacted to him, he was clearly a key figure in the UWF vs New Japan feud and treated as a real player by the fans.

 

His influence as a trainer is something to definitely add to his case. There is at least one guy in the HOF for training who never trained anyone who went on to become as good as Fujiwara's guys (I'm looking at you, Stu Hart).

 

I view Fujiwara as primarily a work candidate who has other pluses to his candidacy. He's almost the reality of Ultimo Dragon's fake HOF candidacy. Great worker, trainer, influence. But you have to buy into the work argument. That's the strongest building block.

 

I would recommend literally every match he had against Sayama. I think that is the most underrated feud of the 80s from an in-ring perspective. He also has classic matches against Maeda, Yamazaki, Takada, and Choshu in the 80s. He has maybe the best Inoki match I've ever seen from 1986. He excels in multi man matches with a shit ton of other great & charismatic worker. To the point where he is often one of the two or three standout performers in those classic New Japan 10 mans.

 

I've recently called Tamura my pick for the best Japanese wrestler ever, but the more I think about it, the more I lean towards Fujiwara being the guy. He's a guy who peaked as high as anyone else as a performer and never really had a stretch of being bad or uninteresting. He has enough other stuff (influence, training) that I'd consider him.

 

Comparing him to the guys Farmer mentioned: Hamaguchi, Kobayashi, Kimura and Yatsu is mean to those other wrestlers. I like all of those guys, but I do view it on some level like saying "What sets Nick Bockwinkel apart from Eddie Gilbert?"

 

In addition to having a higher peak, Fujiwara has all of those guys on longevity as a great/interesting worker, variety of opponents or styles, consistency, great matches, nuts and bolts (selling, mat work, psychology) etc. Whatever metric.

[ohtani's jacket]

I still don't see Fujiwara, if he's getting in on work alone. What sets him apart from a dozen other mid-card Japanese wrestlers? He's was no better, and IMO not on the same level as guys like Kuniaki Kobayashi, Kengo Kimura, Animal Hamaguchi, Yoshiaki Yatsu and dozens more.

 

I think the answer to this pretty clearly that Fujiwara had a better singles career than any of those wrestlers. If all Fujiwara had in his resume were multi-man tags during hot feuds like Choshu vs. Fujinami and UWF vs. New Japan then you could make a comparison to someone like Animal Hamaguchi but Fujiwara clearly had a more significant singles career than the names you listed and was an occasional headliner.

 

I do think he is a marginal candidate but he wasn't a career midcarder.

[PeteF3]

He is truly a revisionist candidate built up by work.

 

On this you're correct and I was misleading--those two '80s sets are, what, almost 10 years old at this point? The Fujiwara love has been around for that long if not longer, perhaps long enough that it's becoming more of a consensus among people in the know than revisionist. But yes, it's definitely "revisionist" in comparison to his time, where he was obviously respected as per that '87 Yearbook ranking but not considered elite.

 

Edit: And I agree with OJ that he's a marginal candidate. On my purely hypothetical ballot, the lucha backlog is too crowded for me to really consider "maybes," and that's what Fujiwara is. My ballot would have a bunch of lucha guys and a few other token votes (Punk, Taue, Enrique Torres), plus the Non-Wrestlers.

[elliott]

Since it got buried on the last page among Fujiwara talk, I reposted my Gordy LIst for Tamura here:

 

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/39734-won-hof-2017/?p=5817637

 

and I would love to see who people view as a stronger candidate between Tamura, Volk Han and Fujiwara.

[PeteF3]

I think Han is great and would be fine with him as a HOFer but I don't think he can really touch the other two in terms of versatility and variety. And just being a pure RINGS guy shouldn't be a copout excuse, because I think Tamura has him beat in those categories and he was a pure shootstyle guy as well. Honestly, though, I think all 3 guys are in that "marginal HOF" category but would see Tamura as the strongest of the 3 simply because he *was* the best wrestler in the world at one point. And as someone with an anti-shootstyle bias, for him to stand out as such to me means he was very good indeed.

[elliott]

I think Han is great and would be fine with him as a HOFer but I don't think he can really touch the other two in terms of versatility and variety.

 

 

I think this is interesting. I agree about Fujiwara having the advantage in versatility and variety. But Tamura is an interesting comparison to Han when thinking about versatility and variety.

 

On the surface, you could make an easy argument for Tamura just based on the nature of their careers. Tamura worked in UWFi which was more pro-style in nature than RINGS and Han only worked the one company. Tamura had a wider variety of opponents because of this and his career narrative was different. We saw him develop from Young Boy to Rising Star to Star. Volk Han was a main eventer from day one till the end.

 

I haven't explored this theory in depth at all, but maybe the very nature of Volk Han gives him a built in advantage for in-ring variety as compared to the more classical shoot style workers. I wrote this about Tamrua in response to the "Is he Innovative Gordy List" Question:

 

"Sort of. Tamura, along with Volk Han, really pushed the boundaries of what was capable not only just in shoot style but in a wrestling ring. Tamura seems innovative because of his speed, athleticism and technique and the fact that when you combined all of this nobody could do what he was capable of in the ring. However, I don’t really view him as innovative in the way that Volk Han was. If Fujiwara & Takada are Buddy Rogers & Ray Stevens, then Tamura was Ric Flair taking their ideas and pushing them as far as possible. I see Tamura as a worker in the tradition of the shoot style founding fathers. Volk Han to me, was the more innovative wrestler within the niche of shootstyle. Outside of quality of work, I don’t see much difference between Tamura, Takada, Yamazaki, Kohsaka and Yamamoto. Volk Han was certainly more unique character."

 

In the realm of shoot style, Volk Han himself was almost the definition of variety. If that makes sense.

 

And just being a pure RINGS guy shouldn't be a copout excuse, because I think Tamura has him beat in those categories and he was a pure shootstyle guy as well. Honestly, though, I think all 3 guys are in that "marginal HOF" category but would see Tamura as the strongest of the 3 simply because he *was* the best wrestler in the world at one point. And as someone with an anti-shootstyle bias, for him to stand out as such to me means he was very good indeed.

 

I'd consider Han a stronger candidate just based on the fact that he walked into RINGS as a main eventer and was the top gaijin in the history of the promotion, in addition to being a working maestro from day 1. I put less emphasis on work than most do when it comes to the HOF. I actually think Tamura was the best worker in the world from 1994-1999 and again in 2004 which would make him a no-brainer HOFer for most normal people

 

I do also think Tamura has a more complete career arc/narrative that makes him easier to get a handle on than someone like Han who just appeared as someone who was amazing and on top and just stayed that way in a mid-level to upper mid-level promotion that is still kinda underexplored by many.

 

Also, there is definitely something to Tamura bridging the gap to someone who doesn't like shootstyle. You're not alone in that.

[Dylan Waco]

I don't want to pick on Matt Farmer, but he's anti-Taue too, and if I remember correctly part of his argument is that he doesn't think he was particularly good in the ring. There is nothing wrong with that, it's a matter of tastes ultimately, but I do think that the difference of opinion you see in HoF voting and discussion very often has to do with how the particular person engages with what they see and the facts that are available. There is no 3000 hits or 500 home runs metric you can pull from here, it's about making a holistic case for guys and with that a lot of the smaller points are relative. I've had guys like Patera dismissed as career mid-carders before and it's hard to take seriously with my own research, but I just have to accept that the definition of mid-card is relative and maybe I'm coming from it from a completely different place than the other person.

 

If you start from the position that Fujiwara was a career mid-carder who was good but not particularly special it's unlikely you are going to be convinced by any argument. That's not a knock on Matt, it's just true. One of the things about revisiting the footage, GWE, et. is that it's created a situation where a lot of people sort of forced themselves into blank slatism. Yes you still come in with biases but if you are watching an entire DVDVR set, eventually some personal truths start to emerge even if they aren't what you expected coming in. For example, I didn't expect to think Ricky Fuyuki was as good as he was in AJPW, or that Michael Hayes was actually a great in ring performer in World Class.

 

The question for an HoF discussion is whether personal takes like that matter in a vacuum, or whether or not they should be buttressed by consensus. I can make an argument for why I think Michael Hayes was a demonstrably great worker, or why I think Invader I is an all time great brawler, or why I think Fuyuki was better than Kawada in Footloose. But if it's an outlier argument, and I can see that, should that really matter in an HoF discussions? For years my answer to this was "probably not," but as time has gone on my answer is inching very close to "of course it should!"

 

The reasoning is this - if you are selected by Dave to be a HoF voter, he is presumably picking you because he trusts your judgment with a ballot. He curates an electorate presumably so they can give their actual opinions on whether or not someone belongs in the Hall of Fame, and not so that the consensus editorial views of the Observer can be reflected back into the HoF. More than that even IF Dave's HoF voter curation is a Manufacturing Consentesque way of making his own views look like truisms, to my mind this makes it even more critical that a voter not act as a delegate for Observer speak, but rather a voice that reflects their own views.

 

This does not mean being contrary for the sake of being contrary, but rather researching and making arguments for the strength or weakness of candidates as you see them.

 

This also is not meant as a wholesale denunciation of consensus, but I do think we should think about what consensus actually means. For example, based on the consensus of hardcore fans at the time Fujiwara seems to have been thought of as a very good/great wrestler, who was near the top of talents in the World, but not at the tip-top. But this is based off of one worker poll, with 30 anonymous respondents. We know nothing about their biases, viewing habits, et.

 

We can watch the footage and I think demonstrate that Fujiwara always seems to have been extremely over with live crowds, but what does that mean? I think Farmer's comparison of Fujiwara to Meng is away off if we are comparing what they do in the ring, number of great matches, skill, et. but it may not be wildly off base to compare him to Meng insofar as he was always more over than his push would actually indicate. So the consensus of crowd response and even sometimes card placement can betray you a bit or play into established biases very easily.

 

Among the rewatchers, the project fans, the first time engagers, and the revisionists, Fujiwara does really well as noted by the stats Pete introduced above. I made a similar argument regarding Tamura and Regal last year based on GWE results (I'm not advocating a vote for either of them, but Regal finishing as high as he did, when looking at his surrounding company, and when considering the breadth of opinion and experience among the voting pool is a fascinating tidbit that was not really thought about when the results came out as everyone fixated on the number one race). One could argue that there are biases with the DVDVR sets (bias on the committees toward or against certain guys, guys who had several excellent high end matches but lots of trash and the trash doesn't get seen on a best of, et) and that is true. One could also argue that GWE voting still reflects a marginal pool of hardcore fandom and that is also true. But it is engagement, and I can't criticize that. I will personally take those metrics over those pointing to the individual star ratings of Dave Meltzer 100 out of 100 times, but with the understanding that there are still problems. I also prefer it to looking back at an anonymous fan poll result.

 

I think the question of revisionism is interesting in general. It certainly has it's critics, though most of the arguments the critics make ignore how a lot of the revisionist process has unfolded. But at heart I'm in that camp.

 

I'll vote for Fujiwara because I think he's one of the 15 best wrestlers of all time, the true godfather of shootstyle, and influential stylist and trainer, and was a guy who radiated a special energy as a talent when performing that live crowds clearly were attracted by regardless of his placement on cards. Any one of those things would not get him onto my ballot. As a whole it's enough for me.

[GOTNW]

I still don't see Fujiwara, if he's getting in on work alone. What sets him apart from a dozen other mid-card Japanese wrestlers? He's was no better, and IMO not on the same level as guys like Kuniaki Kobayashi, Kengo Kimura, Animal Hamaguchi, Yoshiaki Yatsu and dozens more.

Fujiwara is, at worst, an absolute no brainer hall of famer trainer. None of the random New Japan guys you're coming up with match his case in any way-work, influence or training.

[Loss]

I'm a big proponent of revisionism. I struggle to articulate how I feel about it being used as criteria when considering HOF candidates, because I neither fully endorse nor dismiss it. But I don't think it should weigh as heavily as what people thought in real time. That's not because my general opinion of pro wrestling is the Meltzerian view is that matches are only worked for a specific time and place and shouldn't be revisited. It's because I don't think the Hall of Fame specifically is the place for a true deep dive into revisionism. I think in an ideal setting, that happens in special projects more than it does HOF voting. I also don't see revisionist thinking as something that's a one-and-done. Maybe you go through a spell of watching old footage and rightfully elevate a wrestler to all-time status. Years later, maybe a deeper sampling of that wrestler becomes available and you realize that yes, the wrestler you loved a few years ago is still really good, but not quite as special as you originally thought. I think one thing - perhaps the best thing - about revisionism in my eyes is that it lives and it breathes, and nothing is ever truly final. HOF induction is final. Today's ****1/2 match can be tomorrow's *** affair, and today's slam dunk HOF candidate can be tomorrow's marginal pick. To me, revisionism is most useful in reframing how we think about wrestler accomplishments and what we consider HOF-worthy, be it sellouts, influence, great matches or anything else. ("You know, Wrestler X didn't get credit for how much he drew at the time but look at it through this lens and I think you'll see in hindsight that it was pretty impressive.") TomK made a great case for Hamada as an influence candidate a few years back along these lines.

[Herodes]

My ballot, if I had one

 

 

I FOLLOWED THE HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES

 

Sputnik Monroe

 

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES

 

Junkyard Dog

 

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN MEXICO CANDIDATES

 

Brazo de Oro & Brazo de Plata & El Brazo

Sangre Chicana

Cien Caras

Blue Panther

El Signo & El Texano & Negro Navarro

Villano III

 

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN EUROPE

 

Big Daddy

Jackie Pallo

 

NON-WRESTLERS

 

Dave Brown

Jimmy Hart

Jerry Jarrett

[Microstatistics]

Can someone give me a good argument why Yoshiaki Fujiwara is being voted for?

 

Well, the fact that he was an all time/GOAT level worker and arguably the godfather of an entire style should probably go in his favor.

[shoe]

I put my ballot in yesterday.

 

I FOLLOWED THE HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES

Enrique Torres

Bearcat Wright

Sputnik Monroe

Mr. Wrestling 2

 

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES

JYD

Sgt. Slaughter

 

I followed wrestling in Japan

Taue

Fujiwara

Sharpe Bros

 

Non -Wrestlers

Jimmy Hart

Gary Hart

Jerry Jarrett

Don Owen

Dave Brown

 

I abstained in the other 3 cats.

[KrisZ]

WON HOF ballot is finalized

 

I FOLLOWED THE HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES
Sputnik Monroe
Johnny "Mr. Wrestling II" Walker
Bearcat Wright

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES
Junkyard Dog

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN JAPAN CANDIDATES
Yoshiaki Fujiwara

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN MEXICO CANDIDATES
Cien Caras
Blue Panther
Huracan Ramirez
El Signo & El Texano & Negro Navarro
Villano III

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN AUSTRALIA/NEW ZEALAND/PACIFIC ISLANDS/AFRICA CANDIDATES
Abstain

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN EUROPE/AUSTRALIA/PACIFIC ISLANDS/CARIBBEAN/AFRICA CANDIDATES
Abstain

NON-WRESTLERS
Dave Brown
Gary Hart
Jimmy Hart
Don Owen
Stanley Weston

[Cox]

I've been thinking about the WON HOF, and the more I think about it, the more I think it is absurdly structured. There are too many candidates and not enough votes per voter. It's somehow worse than the baseball Hall of Fame ballot, which has 12-15 legitimate candidates among 34 players on the ballot where voters can only vote for 10 players. Writers have been petitioning to add more spots on their ballot, or even allow writers to vote for unlimited candidates.

 

It's somehow worse for the WON HOF, which has a ridiculous 74 wrestlers (not even including the non-wrestlers) across 6 geographical areas and only 10 votes. It leads to situations where voters have to make choices they shouldn't have to. Like, if I think Akira Taue is the second best guy on the ballot and want to vote for him, but think Jun Akiyama is a guy I think is worthy of induction, but is the 11th best wrestler on my ballot. I'd be better off abstaining from Japan all together and strategically putting those two votes in another category (like Mexico or US Historical, both of which have an abundance of worthy candidates) but in the process I'm dropping the guy I think is the second best guy on the ballot. Those are choices voters should not have to make. If a voter thinks there are 11 or 15 people worthy of induction, they should be able to vote for that many candidates.

 

There's also the situation I think I bring up every year with people voting for candidates in categories they otherwise have no business voting in. For instance, Allan has done a great job talking up Big Daddy's candidacy (and rightfully so, he's a great candidate). This will hopefully lead to a lot of people voting for him. But I fear a lot of the people who might vote for Big Daddy based on Allan's lobbying but don't vote for other European candidates are voting no for candidates who may very well have good hall of fame cases, but don't have anybody publicly lobbying for them the way Allan has for Big Daddy (and this is not a criticism of Allan's great work on Big Daddy, but more a criticism in the flaw of Dave's voting system). It's a situation where, if a voter votes for one candidate in a geographical location, that voter should really be familiar with everybody in that geographic location, or else that voter may well be voting no on a worthy candidate in error. I doubt all voters are thinking that way, though.

 

I'd love to see Dave lift the cap on the number of votes a voter can make, or move to a yes/no/abstain format, but unfortunately I don't think we will be seeing that anytime soon, so I think we're going to see a flawed system for the foreseeable future, which is too bad.

[JNLister]

Yeah, I'd be tempted to ditch the categories and the 10 vote limit altogether. Just give voters the full list and have them tick yes, no or abstain (with heavy emphasis that it's fine to abstain if you don't know the candidate), then put in anyone who gets 60% of their yes/no votes.

 

I also suspect many if not most voters who aren't in forums/listening to podcasts give approximately zero thought to the mathematical effects of which categories they vote in and instead just pick their 10 favourites.