83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff

[Hawkeye12]

It was mentioned back on WWE Confidential in 2003 as well.

[SomethingSavage]

17 hours ago, Charles (Loss) said:

That's a true story. Austin even mentioned it in one of his ECW promos.

That's wild. I honestly had no idea. Thanks though.

Eric kind of presented it like Austin wouldn't want people to know, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's unaware of it being out there also.

[Loss]

He might not remember that he said it, yeah. But he did pitch Steve-o-mania running wild ... literally. Austin was also the guy who thought being the "sheriff" of RAW was an awesome idea. Some wrestlers aren't meant to be bookers, I suppose.

[The Thread Killer]

49 minutes ago, Charles (Loss) said:

Some wrestlers aren't meant to be bookers, I suppose.

Jim Cornette talked about that very issue recently on one of his podcasts - how some fans assume that just because a Pro Wrestler is one of best workers in the business, or one of the top draws, they should automatically be able to book.  Cornette's pointed out that no matter how good a guy was as a wrestler, it is a big mistake to assume he might have the creative skills needed to do more than that.  If I remember correctly, I think Cornette might have been talking about Hogan's ill-fated run in TNA from 2009-2013 where he was reportedly contributing all sorts of bad ideas, but the point is probably equally apt when it comes to Austin.

[FMKK]

4 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said:

Jim Cornette talked about that very issue recently on one of his podcasts - how some fans assume that just because a Pro Wrestler is one of best workers in the business, or one of the top draws, they should automatically be able to book.  Cornette's pointed out that no matter how good a guy was as a wrestler, it is a big mistake to assume he might have the creative skills needed to do more than that.  If I remember correctly, I think Cornette might have been talking about Hogan's ill-fated run in TNA from 2009-2013 where he was reportedly contributing all sorts of bad ideas, but the point is probably equally apt when it comes to Austin.

That's funny to me because I always thought Austin would be a good guy to have around backstage because he always stresses 'realism' in-ring and whatever. 

[SomethingSavage]

On the final Nitro episode, Bischoff mentions that Vince proposed an angle in WWE where Lance Storm would be revealed as Eric's bastard son.

... The fuck?

It wouldn't be until much later, but Brad Maddox looked the part to play Eric's illegitimate kid.

Anyway, Conrad follows up the Lance Storm talk by praising his work and saying Lance reminds him of Bobby Eaton - a guy that can get a good match out of anybody, anywhere on the card. Yeesh.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

The idea of Lance Storm being good at wrestling has to be almost completely due to him doing a podcast with Alvarez and posting on THE BOARD~! for a decade, doesn’t it?  With a small amount due to him being friends/tag partners with Jericho.

[rovert]

No, he had that rep during his career.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Yeah, I assume because he was “light.”  I’m more talking about amongst fans when it’s so clear the guy is p terrible.  Similar to how Raven became known as a genius of ring psychology as a result of doing a set of interviews proclaiming himself as such.

[Shrike02]

1 hour ago, Zoo Enthusiast said:

The idea of Lance Storm being good at wrestling has to be almost completely due to him doing a podcast with Alvarez and posting on THE BOARD~! for a decade, doesn’t it?  With a small amount due to him being friends/tag partners with Jericho.

Couldn't disagree more, I always found him to be good in the ring, but rarely good outside of the ring, and mostly saddled with poor gimicks. He would have fared much better with a good manager.

[returner82]

9 hours ago, Zoo Enthusiast said:

Yeah, I assume because he was “light.”  I’m more talking about amongst fans when it’s so clear the guy is p terrible.  Similar to how Raven became known as a genius of ring psychology as a result of doing a set of interviews proclaiming himself as such.

Yeah, Raven, as funny as he can be on shoot interviews before he'd run through all of his material, is the classic example of "buy him for what he's worth and sell him for what he thinks he's worth".

[ColdStone]

I have to disagree. I have always enjoyed Lance Storm as a performer. He was terrible on the microphone but that was never what he based everything on. He was always a solid worker though. I like the Bobby Eaton comparison. I would agree with it. Both were shutter worthy on the stick but legit in the ring. I have always been a Storm mark though. I liked him in ECW and WCW. I didn't care too much about his WWE run though.

[Alucard]

Also a fellow Lance Storm guy here. Always one of my favorites, thought his mic work was rather good in WCW. Raven is another I will always mark for and wish he was used more in his WWE run the way he was everywhere else.

[SPS]

I agree with the folks vouching for Lance as a Canadian fan I was a huge fan and I disagree he was a terrible worker. Say what you want about his strikes being too light or his interviews  being bland but between the ropes the man was respected by his fellow workers and used as trainer in OVW for a reason. I also got to train with him at his school and work in the ring with him a lot and he is fantastic, he is so athletic and skilled also it's a shame he never did any amateur wrestling or grappling in a shoot sense because his instincts for it, he'd have been interesting to see in that realm and having that added to his pro wrestling work. Some people seem to take offense at his demeanor outside the ring and how vocal he is about his viewpoints regarding what he thinks is right and wrong in wrestling but I've never heard him just knock people or promotions for no reason.

As for Raven also am a huge fan and aside from his childish humor at times and huge ego you can't doubt his mind for the business or say he didn't know what he was talking about. Personal issues aside the man was at one time groomed for a spot in the "inner circle" of the WWF and was producing WWF TV and working in the office. Also even when his WWF run ended so industriously he probably made more money than anyone else besides Terry Funk on the early to mid 2000's indie scene. Raven was a very savvy and smart guy and totally got business, if he didn't with all his baggage and issues he would've never stuck around as long as he did.

[Matt D]

I bet you guys are high on Dean Malenko too.

[SPS]

3 hours ago, Matt D said:

I bet you guys are high on Dean Malenko too.

While I'm not as down on him as many hardcore online fans seem to be in recent years compared to the WWE faithful, if anyone could make Lance look like Ricky Morton when it came to facial expressions it's Dean. Also if some people think Lance's punches looked soft then they should check out Dean's forearm strikes, they were some of the worst I've seen a name worker ever throw. But Dean still could do some things on the mat and pull off sequences and highspots that still could wow most any fan today, he's just not the level of what Benoit, Jericho or Guerrero were in hindsight.

[The Thread Killer]

83 Weeks and Cornette's Drive-Thru are pretty much the only podcasts I still listen to regularly, (although I am still working my way through The History of FMW.)  Don't know if anybody around here caught the episode of 83 Weeks from a couple of weeks ago where they covered Eric's time in the AWA?  I thought it was pretty good, and kind of interesting.  Apparently, much to their surprise, that episode has turned out to be one of the most popular topics they've done so far.  It seems to have caught them a bit off guard, since they didn't think many people cared about the AWA, and they assumed that most of the listeners would want to exclusively hear about WCW and the run of shows where WCW beat the WWF in the ratings.

Then this past week, they covered Starrcade 96.  It was a good show, but nothing too noteworthy - except they ended up touching on something which encapsulates why I have come to prefer this show and pretty much stopped listening to Something to Wrestle. Conrad starts by warning Eric he's going to be quoting Meltzer about the state of WCW's attendance, ratings and revenue in 1996 and basically says he knows Eric is going to complain about it.  Eric argues with Conrad, and says he thinks Dave Meltzer does a good job of reporting on and covering the business aspects of WCW, and he trusts that information - he just doesn't like it when Meltzer reports stories when he is getting worked by his sources, or he editorializes.  So Bischoff doesn't end up disagreeing with any of the stuff Conrad reads off from the Observer about WCW's business.

Later, Conrad reads an item from the Observer about WCW being in talks with Tatanka (?!) about coming in.  This time, Eric loses it and yells: "You see? NEVER HAPPENED." He claims that he had never even met or spoken with Tatanka until just recently, when they met at some convention.  Whether it's true or not, Eric claims that the Tatanka story is total bullshit.  Later still, while they are reviewing the actual PPV, Conrad reads Meltzer's review of the show - specifically his criticism of Roddy Piper's pre-match promo.  Once again, Eric gets a bit touchy and claims that of course Piper's promo was rambling and nonsensical - because he's Roddy Piper.  He even discusses how his and Dave Metlzer's opinions of what make a "good match" are different from his, since Meltzer focuses on the match quality and the moves, whereas as the promoter Bischoff was focusing on the "story" and business end.

I don't always agree with Eric Bischoff, but these types of discussions are the reasons I still listen to this show.  Bruce Prichard just dismisses every single thing Meltzer ever says and every story he reports, automatically out of hand.  There isn't any discussion about why, there isn't any justification, it's just "Fuck Meltzer" over and over again.  He refuses to give Meltzer any credit for anything and his repeated Meltzer bashing (along with what appears to be his own growing disinterest in his own show) has made Something to Wrestle almost unbearable at this point. At least Bischoff, gives Meltzer credit for accuracy in covering the business as a reporter, he just disputes his sources and his editorializing. At times he can resort to falling back on "Fuck Meltzer" too, but most times (if pressed) he is a lot more even handed and fair about it, and at least explains and justifies his reasons for having issues with Meltzer and the Observer.

I don't think the enthusiasm factor can be overlooked, either.  Every time I have tried picking up STW again lately, it sounds like Prichard is bored and just going through the motions.  A few weeks back, Conrad and Eric did a show focusing on Eric's first year with WWE.  Eric got so into the discussion and the details of the negotiation and his debut on Raw, that they had to split the episode in two.  You might argue that Eric Bischoff just likes the sound of his own voice and there certainly is some truth to that...but I always laugh when Conrad asks him a question and then Eric takes 15 minutes to answer, going into detail and meandering off into side-topics.  At least he is still enthusiastic about the show and the topics they cover. This show has been going for 10 months now, and in my opinion it has gotten better with time, unlike Prichard's show which has run out of steam.

Although next week they are covering Starrcade 97, and Eric is already warning people that he and Conrad really get into it.  I am betting it will be over the infamous Nick Patrick slow/fast count.

[SomethingSavage]

The AWA episode really was excellent. And I'm in agreement with your other points also. This was essentially his origin story. Everything I enjoyed about the Prichard Houston show back in the day was here. That translated to an engaging, wholly enjoyable listen. It ranks right up there with the Hogan run-in on the Dusty episode as a peak moment for me.

Eric's long-winded responses are absolutely part of his charm, too. I mean, yeah. It can be maddening at times when he loses the thread, but he almost always finds his way back in the end. It's not a case of him dodging bullets or anything. It's just his style. His answers are often packed with insight and information, even if the business-speak could understandably turn some folks off at times.

Bischoff is still a fun storyteller when the situations presents itself though. The Ninja Star Wars sales pitch to Verne and the boys rinsing up in the livestock showers in freezing cold weather are two prime examples of that. Plus I don't know if I've ever heard a more accurate description of Diamond Dallas Page's personality than we got here. I can both appreciate Page for his positivite contributions and still find the dude to be too much at times.

Anyway, this was a good one. Well worth the listen without feeling unnecessarily long or drawn out.

[SomethingSavage]

The story of Ken doll Eric Bischoff, wearing nothing but a friend's wife's full-length mink coat & wielding an Uzi, answering the door for a Pizza Hut delivery is fucking bonkers. And I love it.

There's been a solid chain of episodes here lately. The Starrcade 97 one wandered a little too deep into the old "Meltzer rant" territory that they'd temporarily left behind, but I'm numb to that nonsense now. I just accept it as part of the shtick & enjoy the other, more interesting discussion pieces.

If anything, the pendulum has swung in the other direction for me. I mean, I still roll my eyes at Eric's exaggerated disdain for Dave from time to time. But Conrad's Scott Keith-level "insight" is just the dirt worst. It's like literally digging up the fossils of articles written in 1997/98 and reading those opinions out loud.

But hey. I take the good with the bad. For the most part, there's some really good stuff in these latest episodes.

[SomethingSavage]

It's unfortunate that Eric misunderstood Conrad's question when he was asked to compare & contrast the evil boss characters of Bischoff & McMahon around the 97/98 time period.

Instead, Eric went with it as if the question was about Bischoff versus Russo. And a long-winded rant ensued. Plus, there's really no comparison.

Eric's confusion doesn't really bother me much, but Conrad being too lazy to guide him back or restate the question is aggravating. I would have been interested in hearing Bischoff discuss the differences & parallels of those two characters at their respective peaks.

[The Thread Killer]

83 Weeks continues their strong run of shows discussing the Starrcade PPV's which took place during Eric Bischoff's tenure in WCW.  They have already covered 96, 97 and 98 over the past few weeks.  This week they went back and covered Starrcade 1994. 

I thought it was a really strong episode, and Eric really went into great detail (or "going into the weeds" as he calls it) regarding a number of issues.  They discuss Eric's duties as "WCW Executive Producer" and how at around this time there was a lot of political maneuvering behind the scenes between Bischoff and the then President of WCW, Bob Dhue. They really go in depth about who Gary Juster is, how Eric buried him in his book, and why Bischoff cancelled all WCW House Shows to save money at the apparent objection of Juster.  Conrad gets a tad snarky about Eric burying Juster since he has met him and likes him, and Conrad tries to call Eric out about it, a bit. Interestingly, Eric fires back with a claim that he knows Juster was leaking info to Meltzer. They talk about WCW attempting to grow their business internationally while their domestic house show business is dead. He gets quite animated and talks at great length about The Honkytonk Man and his release, rebutting Honky's version of his WCW tenure and claims that he quit.

They review the Starrcade 94 PPV in depth, including a frank discussion of Hulk Hogan's friends getting WCW jobs - particularly focusing on Jim Duggan, John Tenta and especially Ed "Brutus-The-Barber-Brother-Bruti-Butcher-Man-With-No-Name-Zodiac-Booty-Man-Disciple" Leslie. They have an interesting discussion about the Alex Wright/Jean-Paul Levesque match, with Eric giving some interesting feedback regarding who looked like a bigger star in that match, and who was responsible for their push.  A highlight is the discussion of the Mr. T. vs. Kevin Sullivan match. I particularly enjoyed the exchange when Conrad says he wanted to punch Bischoff in the dick after watching that match, and Eric shoots back and says he should punch his Father-in-Law in the dick - he was on the booking committee at the time, and besides - Flair's dick is a much bigger target.  Eric ends up acquiescing and agreeing to be pushed down a small flight of stairs, due to how bad this match was.

Two of the most interesting things about this episode to me were the fact that Bischoff (in his own words) "puts over" Dave Meltzer a fair bit, until he loses it at the end regarding what he claims are inaccuracies regarding Meltzer's reporting of WCW's financial loses in 1994.  Also, I know I have discussed this at length at PWO but I think this bears repeating - I was really struck at how much more self-effacing Bischoff is when compared to Prichard.  Maybe it's a "gimmick" but even Conrad grudgingly admits that he expected Bischoff to defend the Main Event much more than he did.  Conrad was obviously expecting a real argument like the one they had over Starrcade 96 and 97 Main Events.  Instead, you get a shockingly contrite Eric Bischoff who claims this is one of if not the worst shows WCW ever did under his reign.  He also really gets into the details of Hulk Hogan's level of influence over the booking of his matches and selection of his opponents.  He makes some interesting points - namely that while Hogan undoubtedly did use his influence to get his friends booked in Main Events, in Hogan's "defense" he legitimately thought the matches would draw.  Eric makes the point that if Hogan thought working with his friends was going to hurt the bottom line - especially if it would affect his ability to draw money long term, he wouldn't do it. To me the highlight was the discussion of booking at this time (done by a committee of Ric Flair who replaced Dusty Rhodes, Terry Taylor and Kevin Sullivan)  but more specifically I found it really interesting when he went into great detail regarding a series of targeted focus groups they ran which helped him determine what the fans wanted to see.

There were a couple of negatives about this episode.  Eric mercilessly flogged the 83 Weeks Patreon deal to the point of absurdity, and he also kept going back to a labored analogy comparing himself to a puppy and Conrad to an Alligator which was really quite goofy and just didn't work.  When they are discussing shows which Bischoff knows are pretty much indefensible, he tends to try to paint himself as a victim of Conrad's criticism which isn't a great look for him.

However, all in all this show encapsulated perfectly what I have been on about recently - how good 83 Weeks is, and how it is so much better than Something to Wrestle.  Anybody else hear it, and if so what did you think?

[SomethingSavage]

I'm right there with ya, brutha. This show has been my go-to lately. Revisiting the AWA, recounting Eric's first year in the WWF, and the entire Starrcade series have all been fairly awesome listens.

And you're right. There was some insightful, fascinating discussion on this latest episode.

You already ran down most of the stuff I would have touched on myself. The only item I would add is a bit more on the Hogan influence & what it meant for WCW at this point.

Eric does an excellent job of outlining the decline in North American wrestling actually. And that sets the stage supremely well for everything else.

Bischoff admits that luck and timing played a part in "luring" Hulk to WCW in the first place, which was surprising but refreshingly honest. But he goes on to discuss how Hulk opened up doors for them globally & internationally - with promoters and companies paying upfront for shows.

I'm not very familiar with the ins & outs of their tours from this time period, but weren't they touring previously in Europe with Vader/Sting on top a year or so prior to Hulk's signing? What was their business like at that time? I'm just curious to know now.

Either way, Hogan was such a major coup for them. And Eric, if anything, underemphasizes that a bit. At the very least, he doesn't go overboard in overselling it.

Another noteworthy item came with the talks of Turner's interest in acquiring NBC. Given Hulk's status, popularity, and familiarity to mass audiences - even more directly in this instance, via Saturday Night's Main Event on NBC - you could absolutely assume that this could have been another factor in Turner being so willing to sign Hulk at all costs.

I'm not saying this with any certainty, of course. But I am sort of surprised that it isn't brought up as a talking point more often. That's all.

While I'm speculating though, you can kind of get the sense that Eric only barely tolerated Jimmy Hart most of the time. He has openly bashed Jimmy's dated look & his animated personality A LOT. And Eric almost seems to go out of his way to mention it with every show he's on - which, again, is a lot.

But yeah, man. These shows have had some fun moments & some fascinating talking points recently. They've definitely been better than anything Prichard has put out in a long, long time.

[SomethingSavage]

So, like I said, this pod has been on a really strong streak for the last several shows. As a result, I've started to go back & fill in the gap by listening to the earlier episodes I'd originally skipped over.

Eric was surprisingly, refreshingly honest about his disappointment with Havoc 98. I always appreciate that. Conrad even tried to give Eric some praise for the strong buyrate, but Bischoff quickly corrects him & points out that it's sometimes worse when you get such a big audience to witness such a shitty show. You're effectively left with a larger pool of disappointed, disenchanted customers. And he's right.

Jackie Chan versus Ernest Miller on pay-per-view in 1998? Sign me up. For real though, the Cat is a total guilty pleasure for me around that 98/99 time frame. And Jackie Chan was actually a pretty big hit with pop culture for awhile there.

It was cool to hear Eric talk about his time in TNA for a change. I kind of wish they'd go the Prichard route and take a couple of episodes to really dive into the subject, to be honest.

In any case, hearing how Garrett got his start was neat. I never knew he trained with Rikishi & Gangrel though. I always just assumed he was a Team 3D Academy guy.

Oh. And Eric talking about how his deal with TNA came together was funny. I cracked up when he called it the "Jimmy Hart tax" - meaning, if they wanted to sign Hulk (which they definitely DID want), then they had to sign Bischoff (which they didn't). Tremendous.

The story about sitting next to a closeted wrestling fan on the plane was great, too. Loved that. Oh. And Eric's analogy of 90s pro wrestling (pre-Bischoff) being like porn - people watched it, but nobody admitted to watching it - was pretty on point.

It was cool to hear Eric throw some praise Al Snow's way, too. I'm fairly sure they only worked together in TNA, but it's clear that Eric liked Al's approach to psychology and philosophy in wrestling.

I've always found that Snow is one of those guys who sounds brilliant in interviews, but I've never really got the sense that he's all that capable as a booker. I know his first OVW run (under the WWE umbrella) was panned and considered a disaster for business, but how's he doing now that he's acquired the company himself?

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Are y’all aware that there is an After Show for this show?

http://www.afterbuzztv.com/after-83-weeks-with-christy-olson/

[El-P]

Ok, I gave up listening the first episode, but all the positive talk about this show makes me want to give it another shot. Sell me a few episodes where Bischoff is at his less annoying and most genuine. I have zero interest in all thing AWA or WWE, but I am interested in TNA stuff. So there. Hit me with some references, people and help me find a good podcast for early 2019, as I have grown incredibly tired of CT's other two shows last year.