Is TNA the worst wrestling promotion in history?

[sek69]

So on tonight's PPV Scott Steiner did a top rope Frankensteiner. In 2018. And everyone survived.

[KawadaSmile]

PCO vs Steiner when

[Zoo Enthusiast]

PCO vs Steiner when

Ha, legit texted a friend the same thing about 10 minutes ago.

[Mad Dog]

PCO vs Steiner when

 

This needs to happen on Southpaw wrestling.

[C.S.]

 

Pentagon Jr. is your new Impact Canadian World Champion. ETA on Aries' inevitable tantrum and departure? No one is a bigger fan of Austin Aries than Austin Aries.

 

Edit: Scott Steiner won the Tag Titles. In 2018!

 

[With Coil]

Scott doing the frankensteiner and reuniting with Petey Williams to do math and be Scott Steiner was awesome. He really, really showed up and did the best he possibly could do in and out of the ring for the night.

[sek69]

Impact also finally got new title belts that don't look like someone put stickers on the old ones to cover the TNA logos.

 

Gotta hand it to them, they are working hard to build good will after Dixie did her damnednest to salt the Earth. TV has been improving, and this PPV was miles better than anything they've done in ages. They aren't going to turn things around on a dime, but at least you can see there's effort being made.

 

Also is Don Callis the best politician in wrestling right now or what? He's an exec with Impact, who work with AAA, while being a commentator (and getting involved with angles like the Jericho stuff) for New Japan who work with CMLL. I know New Japan probably doesn't give a shit about the feud, but CMLL has been famously petty when their guys are anywhere near anyone associated with AAA. Not to mention Impact also works with Pro Wrestling Noah, and IIRC it wasn't a happy breakup when they stopped working with New Japan.

 

Somehow he's making it all work so far, which might be the most impressive part to all this.

[SomethingSavage]

And just how heartbroken is Billy Corgan about it all?

 

I'm disappointed with the Aries belt collector bit coming to such a sudden & abrupt end, but I won't even lie. I'm curious to see how they handle the fallout with the next several weeks of TV. Pentagon packs plenty of buzz right now, so he isn't exactly a major drop off or a downgrade. I'd still prefer to see Aries in that seat for awhile longer, but I'm still on board to see where they go from here.

[Mrzfn]

Funny thing is things were looking up with Dixie at the end, at least a little, with all the Hardy stuff. The ill fated Jarrett transition was just awful, but they seem to have pulled together a whole lot since kicking him and some other unfortunate people to the curb.

[C.S.]

And just how heartbroken is Billy Corgan about it all?

 

I'm sure he's fine. He's doing his own thing with the NWA now, and from what I've seen, it's a refreshing throwback that's doing things no other wrestling organization has done in 30 years. He never would've been able to do that with a brand as damaged as TNA/Impact - which is ironic for me to say when he bought the R.I.P. NWA, but that was much lower-profile than TNA (not counting the obvious NWA-TNA days).

[SomethingSavage]

I was just kidding around about Corgan. Well, mostly...

 

Billy actually made some noticeable improvements to TNA during his time there, to be fair. His overall influence varies, depending on how much you believe he was behind versus Borash and even Matt Hardy to some degree. But yes. Corgan's fingerprints were clearly on some of that stuff.

 

Part of me wishes he would've been allowed to go full throttle with his vision - just to watch it become fully formed, if nothing else.

 

I like what he's attempted to do with the NWA revival. And I especially enjoyed it at the start. But I don't know. It does feel like the direction is meandering a bit with time.

 

Truth be told, we already witnessed a better NWA revival in recent years, and credit for that is owed to Dave Marquez and his CWF Hollywood promotion. *That* was the last time the NWA brand truly felt like it COULD mean anything substantial, and it was happening on a much more clearly designed stage than what you're getting now with Corgan's efforts.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not discounting what Billy's been doing. I've dug it. But calling it the best thing to happen to the NWA - even just in more recent times - is to overlook a good two or three year stretch of time where they were really crafting a cohesive, compelling story around the championship.

 

Hell, the best thing about Billy's NWA thus far - besides those early few weeks of Tim Storm as grizzled vet on his last legs, defending his hilltop - is the fact that it's helped mend fences and rebuild the bridge between Marquez's CWF Hollywood and the NWA brand.

 

In an ideal world, Marquez would have a bigger presence & profile in the grand scheme of things.

[Matt D]

And just how heartbroken is Billy Corgan about it all?

 

I'm disappointed with the Aries belt collector bit coming to such a sudden & abrupt end, but I won't even lie. I'm curious to see how they handle the fallout with the next several weeks of TV. Pentagon packs plenty of buzz right now, so he isn't exactly a major drop off or a downgrade. I'd still prefer to see Aries in that seat for awhile longer, but I'm still on board to see where they go from here.

Pete and I are heartbroken.

[sek69]

It would have been nice to see Billy get more time to go where he wanted to, but his track record probably meant it was only a matter of time before there was some blowup causing him or other important people to leave. It's kind of been his MO. He's kind of like Jim Cornette in that regard only instead of rants and threats of bodily harm he's more passive agressiveness and gaslighting folks.

[C.S.]

 

Austin Aries regained the title at the Impact tapings.

 

 

Pretty silly booking.

 

The match sounds wild though.

[SomethingSavage]

It was silly to take the title off him in the first place. They should go with Aries until they settle on making their next top guy. Pentagon is fire and a tidal wave they could ride temporarily, but he's not sticking around for them to build a bunch of TV and angles around.

 

I thought the Redemption show was more good than bad, all things considered.

 

It's true that much of the first half would've felt entirely skippable - if it weren't for Scotty Steiner. He's started to show his age a bit, and the T-shirt/middle-aged tat look does him no favors, but the guy showed up & put in work. I popped HAYOOOJ for the top rope Frankensteiner. And then that backstage interaction with Petey was just aces. Loved the callback to the Colt podcast with the Cracker Barrel reference, too. Pure fun there.

 

I'm really digging what they're doing with their Knockouts division at the moment also. Or should I say, "again?" It's honestly probably their most consistent division, all things considered. There have surely been drop offs and declines at time, but they always seem to rebound and thrive - even at points when the rest of the company feels lifeless or totally uninspired.

 

There's plenty of clearly defined characters among the current batch of Knockouts. Rosemary has been a favorite for awhile already, and she's almost transcended into this Taker-like gatekeeper role for the time being. Her feuds feel like standalone issues that exist outside of title contention, and that's pretty cool.

 

Allie is essentially what Bayley could be, if her gimmick and bubbly appeal wasn't wrecked & buried by two years of bad booking. It's easy to invest in someone like Allie, and - because of that - it feels especially rewarding whenever she gets a title run like the one she's finally experiencing at the moment.

 

Su Yung's look is tremendous. It really catches your eye. I was initially worried that it seemed too similar to Rosemary's act during her days with Decay, but nah. The undead bribe stuff works well enough on its own. It's creepy, and she plays it to the hilt.

 

Oh. And the six-man hardcore war was fun, too. They didn't reinvent the wheel by any means, but it moved along at a quick pace. And it was packed with plenty of big spots & weapon shots. It delivered on what was advertised. (I *did* find the two OVE cutter spots to be memorable.) On top of that, it furthered the Eddie/Callihan issue.

 

And, while the angle was also something we've seen before, it was executed really well. Those Singapore cane shots from Eddie were something else. Fucking fierce shots for everybody. I'm not sure where the wife miscue is heading, but I liked the chaotic scene we were left with here. It all felt totally appropriate for the war these guys have waged against one another.

 

Oh. And that visual of Callihan, slumped down and just dying on the vine, was fucking fantastic. So there's that.

 

I try to steer clear of spoilers, especially when it comes to these enormous taping sessions. So I'll try to wait until the stuff starts to air and see how things play out.

 

I know they catch a lot of shit and snide remarks for being a glorified Canadian indie or whatever, but there are way worse strategies than what they're doing. I don't fault Callis at all for attempting to build some goodwill with a loyal, proven, die hard wrestling fan base and potentially expanding from there. Maybe it isn't ideal, but it's certainly not a bad idea either.

[SomethingSavage]

Oh. And I forgot to mention - Braxton Sutter as the punching bag of the women's division is just tremendous.

 

Pretty much kills him as a serious singles guy, but fuck that. It's fun stuff.

[Rah]

He quit yesterday

[El-P]

So, the third occurence of the infamous "Fire Russo" chant happened at Hard Justice 2008 during the Sonjay Dutt vs Jay Lethal "Tuxedo chain match" (yeah, I'm sure Dutch Mantell booked that shit, it doesn't scream Russo idiotic gimmick match at all...), part of the equally awful Macho Man & Liz redux storyline, which was easily one of the worst of the year (if not the worst, but Abyss being back only foreshadows some awful things to come, as he's always been settled with the worst shit since Russo came back).

 

Still, by August, 2008 has clearly been the best year of TNA since 2005, all things considered, the women playing quite an important role in that (but again, the prospect of losing Gail Kim soon means things are gonna take a downturn).

[SomethingSavage]

That's sort of too bad about Braxton bailing, but I'm not too surprised or anything. The angle ran its course, as he got the total Ellsworth treatment on his way out. Makes sense. Still, I found the deal of him proposing to almost every single Knockout in the division to be a funny spin on the male manager routine. Entertaining stuff while it lasted.

 

Loved Callis' line on commentary about Braxton's lack of game. "Will you marry me?" is practically his opening line! Good stuff.

 

Oh. And yeah. Big Kev in TNA was way cooler than everyone's favorite indie darlings combined. Fo' sho'.

 

ls Gail Kim legitimately retired now? If so, that's a shame. I know she is comfortable with where she's at and what she's doing - and she's been burned by them in the past - but I can imagine her really ripping it up with some of the women in WWE at the moment. The landscape over there is far better suited for her now than it ever was before.

[Alucard]

Braxton's heel turn was so sudden and out of nowhere, but the original Braxton/Allie wedding segment was so great. Everyone involved killed it in their roles.

 

ls Gail Kim legitimately retired now? If so, that's a shame. I know she is comfortable with where she's at and what she's doing - and she's been burned by them in the past - but I can imagine her really ripping it up with some of the women in WWE at the moment. The landscape over there is far better suited for her now than it ever was before.

 

She is legit, she's an agent now with Impact for the knockouts matches I believe.

[The Thread Killer]

El-P, you must be either a glutton for punishment or a very determined man. First you sat through the entire end run of WCW, and now you're voluntarily watching TNA in chronological order - of your own free will. I don't know if I could do that in my spare time, knowing already ahead of time how much of it was pure shite.

[SomethingSavage]

Braxton's heel turn was so sudden and out of nowhere, but the original Braxton/Allie wedding segment was so great. Everyone involved killed it in their roles.

 

ls Gail Kim legitimately retired now? If so, that's a shame. I know she is comfortable with where she's at and what she's doing - and she's been burned by them in the past - but I can imagine her really ripping it up with some of the women in WWE at the moment. The landscape over there is far better suited for her now than it ever was before.

 

She is legit, she's an agent now with Impact for the knockouts matches I believe.

 

Thanks, man. That's what I had heard. Good for her. It's great she'll be able to still contribute to the business without taking time away from her home & family life now.

 

That being said, of course I still selfishly want to see her versus Asuka, Ronda, etc.

[The Thread Killer]

I could be wrong, but I think I read something somewhere about how Gail Kim made an appearance on a podcast recently and had less than flattering things to say about Stephanie and the WWE women's revolution. I'd have to search for it, but I'm pretty sure that Gail has decided now that she's retired she isn't going to hold back her opinions.

[The Thread Killer]

Yeah, I found it.

 

From just a couple of weeks ago on "Fightful.com"

Well before there was a "women's revolution" in WWE, Gail Kim had enough.

Kim had returned to WWE after a successful TNA Wrestling run, only to be welcomed with more of the same booking she'd experienced before. In 2011, Kim eliminated herself from a battle royal and never wrestled in the company again. Within a few years, WWE started a charge for a women's revolution. Kim told the WPW Podcast that she thinks Stephanie McMahon could have helped make it happen well before.

"WWE always thinks in a business mindset. For them, they are thinking, ‘ok this woman's revolution is becoming hot, Ronda Rousey, this “Me Too” movement’; so of course to be honest I’m going to say this, because I’ve said it on Twitter, Stephanie (McMahon) could have been fighting for us a long time ago. She was there every single time I worked there and she had zero interest in fighting for the women back then. So, for them, everything is business motivated. So, them having this women's revolution, and it’s from the fans as well….the fans did demand it through social media and Vince heard it and made it happen. And I think finally the girls are getting treated the way they want to get treated."

Instead of heading back to WWE when the shift occurred, she would finish out her in-ring career with Impact Wrestling, and now works backstage for them.

 

 

Comments like that, I'm not sure she'd be welcomed back in WWE which is a shame. She deserves to be part of the recognition the women are finally getting, she was ahead of her time in that regard in WWE.

[sek69]

Judging from history, if Steph is anything like her father Gail will be the one she wants to bring back the most. Nothing more McMahons like than bringing someone back who said mean (or just unflatteringly true) things so they can have them kiss the ring,