All Elite Wrestling

[Timbo Slice]

Cage is not a legit 6’. He’s 5’10 and bloated. 

[Mad Dog]

On 9/11/2021 at 5:50 PM, Zoo Enthusiast said:

The latter part of that is definitely part of what makes me want to watch.  I'm a fan of squash matches but watching two straight hours of them isn't all that exciting but throwing some stories into these shows should work wonders.

They're more like 90 minutes or less now. They are teasing a Dark Order break up on Dark and they just blew off a Big Swole/Diamante feud. You also have the Peter Avalon stable causing some issues.

[ragemaster]

Not sure what the issue is with Cage height, he's taller than Big E and has a better body to boot. Sure Vince would love to have him, for about the 3 weeks it takes him to lose interest with his latest toy.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

I mean, they did sign him back in the day for a reason.

[MoS]

He's not close to being as naturally big as Big E. There's no way his cartoonishly enhanced physique survives the wellness policy. They do look the other way if you have other qualities they like - Jinder they want to use for the Indian market for instance- but I don't think they do so for him. That said, however, I do agree that his best bet probably is a short one or two year run with the Fed. He'll be fresh there, and he can have good matches with Roman, Big E, etc before being cycled out. 

[Timbo Slice]

Big E could legit go win a strongman comp this weekend if he wanted to. 

[MoS]

That Rock-Cena WM buildup video from way back had Big E benching 575 pounds in Cena's gym, which puts him in elite category. Not enough to medal in world comps or anything, but extremely impressive. He is crazy strong. He isn't very tall, but he is wide and broad and thick, and looks tremendous. 

[sek69]

Thick dudes can get away with not being the tallest since the thickness is like an optical illusion making those kind of dudes seem taller than they are. 

If we're being honest, Brian Cage is basically a dude in the wrong era. He'd be a great monster villain for Hogan to beat on an episode of Saturday Night's Main Event.

[cm funk]

9 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Thick dudes can get away with not being the tallest since the thickness is like an optical illusion making those kind of dudes seem taller than they are. 

If we're being honest, Brian Cage is basically a dude in the wrong era. He'd be a great monster villain for Hogan to beat on an episode of Saturday Night's Main Event.

This. 

I like Cage, but in another era he's on to another territory at this point.  Only thing I can think of to do with him is to use him as a gatekeeper JTTS which he's not going to be super happy with, or put him in a tag team, which the roster is overloaded with already

I think this is a really good test of Tony's booking acumen.  Can you keep Cage strong and a valuable part of the show without really pushing him beyond the mid/upper-mid spot he's in?  Heyman did a really good job of this in ECW, and WCW stumbled into it with guys.  Can he turn Brian Cage into a modern day Axl Rotten?

[Dale Wolfe]

He's Tom Zenk or maybe Paul Roma

Nothing wrong with that but if he has delusions of grandeur maybe he should go Mexico or something 

[KawadaSmile]

1 hour ago, MoS said:

That Rock-Cena WM buildup video from way back had Big E benching 575 pounds in Cena's gym, which puts him in elite category. Not enough to medal in world comps or anything, but extremely impressive. He is crazy strong. He isn't very tall, but he is wide and broad and thick, and looks tremendous. 

I remember there was a tag team ladder match, I don't recall the event, where Big E essentially benched the ladder with two people on it.

One of the most underrated spots I've seen.

[ragemaster]

If Big E can be the Champion, no reason Cage can't be the champ in WWE. I much rather watch Cage with the right opponent in a singles match than I do with Big E, but I think both would/do work better in tag teams.

Put Cage with Bron Breakker and a new Stenier like tag team is born, not sure who in AEW I put him with. Maybe have him take Hobbs from team Taz and then you have a new power team in AEW.  Which is something missing in AEW, as no big powerful tag teams and would add a different dimension to the division. 

[Badlittlekitten]

Cage hasn't a fraction of Big Es personality.  He'd flounder in WWE.

[ragemaster]

Does Big E have main event Personality, I've never seen it. Cage carry's himself more as a main event level guy, but both are not main event level on the mic. We find out in the next few weeks how good Big E is in the top spot. I'm hoping he tweaks his act, but it may be out of his hands. Guess it depends on the promos his given from the booking team.

Like a lot of people in the Wwe, we probably never see what they really capable off, as they so micromanaged. But wasn't a fan of his "break out" promo with Paul Heyman on talking smack.

 

[KawadaSmile]

I'm curious: what exactly you don't like about Big E's presentation, or at least don't see as a main even level act?

[ragemaster]

He's been part of a comedy team act for the last ten years, with breakfast cereal and pancakes as part of his gimmick. Not sure what part of any of his act say's main event guy. As a wrestler he's a little better than average and I never heard him cut a good/great main event level promo.  Don't get me wrong, he has had some good matches over the years, works hard to the best of his abilities in the ring. But he's not standout great or even top 20 in the wwe as a wrestler for that promotion. His dive though the ropes is awesome, but dangerous as hell for him and for his own safety I wish he drop it.

Yes New day do well for the kids, so for marketability he has points.

I would love to be proved wrong and him not end up like a Dolph Ziggler world champion. But with WWE booking and the fact he wasn't booked strong with his win to begin with, I think he's chances are remote and he will drop the title back to Lashley at the next PPV. 

I also understand the black element of his push and the fact for kids watching at home it's important for them to see a positive black role model at the top. But also like the film Black panther, which was very important for people of colour to see themselves in a big budget Marvel/Hollywood film in a positive light.  Unfortunately Black Panther as a movie just wasn't a very good film, just average and got overhyped because of what it represented. 

But this is the Wwe and with Kofi Kingston/Booker T/keith Lee/Ricochet they already proved they don't care about that. All guys they dropped the ball with and could have used to move the business out of the 50's.  Yes Bobby Lashley had a strong push, but only because of his body and not in a positive way. 

I get the love for a guy who's worked hard for a company for 10 years, getting a title as a career achievement award. But what am I missing that you think makes him a main event level act.

 

 

 

[MoS]

The fact that Big E got over far beyond his level of push is a clear sign how special he is. New Day were not supposed to get this over - and it's not just with kids, they are generally beloved. Hell, even during their most pushed days, they would basically put over the Usos in all the big matches. But he managed to get over and remain over for all these years despite WWE never showing the sign that they were going to elevate him. Compare him to Dolph, whom the promotion at least pushed close to the main event for a few minutes. Ziggler didn't remain half as over for half as long as Big E has. If we keep comparing him to Cage, then I would argue that Cage has been less over than his push in AEW, a total reverse of Big E. He's received far more booking support than Big E has and yet he doesn't really feel like much of a big deal imo.

He did a lot of goofy stuff to keep getting TV time, but unlike a lot of undercard/midcard comedy acts, his matches and his occasional fired promos would give enough indication that this is a dangerous motherfucker who can snap and kill anyone on the roster so you better not fuck with him. Of course whether that is utilized well is a matter of booking and how they follow up on the reign, but he obviously has the potential and the charisma that has kept him good and credible enough to immediately feel at home in that slot. Look at how massive that final quarter did compared to the rest of the show, as opposed to the usual trend of the 3rd hour having a sharp dropoff. I think it's very hard to say that there are very many people on the roster who have the kind of goodwill and pent up desire to see in the main event, who could have pulled a similar number. All this on the basis of a tweet he sent a few hours before the show. 

[ragemaster]

The proof is in the pudding, the fact they advertised there was was a good chance of a title change with the tweet and Randy and Lashley was also for the title in the main event. I think anyone who held the brief case and tweeted they were going to cash it in, would have increased the rating for that quarter. Lets see what the next few weeks on the ratings produce and if he is a draw. 

For me Big E just comes across as goofy and his Charisma isn't that high, but it might be like The Miz or Christian. Some guys you look at and you just don't buy them in that position . Its all subjective and that's my personal opinion on the guy, I'm happy to revise it, he might come out on Monday and blow me away with a promo. In a couple of month I could be his biggest fan.

I think Ziggler was hurt by one, his name and two because he kept getting pushed and then not followed up on, the fans lost interest in him. I guess it helps Big E, that he's not been pushed in the single division much, so he doesn't have that loser sigma on him. Even though he's been in the company for so long, he's not been put in the main event to fail as much as some of the other guys working there. 

Time will tell where Big E ends up and if he's in the main event mix for the rest of his carer or he's back where he was like Kofi. From the respect of his peers I do hope he makes it, as he seems like one of the good guys in the business.

 

 

[strobogo]

1 hour ago, ragemaster said:

Does Big E have main event Personality, I've never seen it. Cage carry's himself more as a main event level guy, but both are not main event level on the mic. We find out in the next few weeks how good Big E is in the top spot. I'm hoping he tweaks his act, but it may be out of his hands. Guess it depends on the promos his given from the booking team.

Like a lot of people in the Wwe, we probably never see what they really capable off, as they so micromanaged. But wasn't a fan of his "break out" promo with Paul Heyman on talking smack.

 

Cage doesn't carry himself as anything other than a random meat heat. Dude has no personality in or out of the ring at all, Brian Cage is a fucking machine was more accurate than Excalibur intended.

[Matt D]

11 minutes ago, strobogo said:

2 hours ago, ragemaster said:

 

Cage doesn't carry himself as anything other than a random meat heat

Pretty sure Meat Heat is what Stasiak got for secretly recording people backstage.

[Coffey]

9 hours ago, ragemaster said:

I get the love for a guy who's worked hard for a company for 10 years, getting a title as a career achievement award. But what am I missing that you think makes him a main event level act.

We should talk more about this, to be honest. Not just in WWE but in all of professional wrestling. When did it become OK to "reward" someone a championship title as a "thank you" like it's an honor role ribbon? The titles should go to the best & top guys & wrestling getting away from that, honestly, is part of the problem. In WWE, especially, fucking EVERYONE has been a champion, so no one feels special. And they even made their title just a giant ass logo so the champion is walking around carrying a commercial. It's embarrassing. 

If you go back to the Hulk Hogan days, a ton of talent like Perfect, Rude, DiBiase, Steamboat, etc. didn't get a run. Nowadays, even fucking Jinder Mahal, Great Khali & Jack Swagger are former world champions. The Money in the Bank briefcase is honestly a flawed concept. 

And I love Big E. & I'm happy for him... but if WWE got rid of Money in the Bank entirely, I certainly wouldn't shed any tears. They could get rid of half their titles too. 

[ragemaster]

One of the problems I find on this board is just how Jim Cornette this board has become. Certain wrestlers like Jericho, Cody, Cage, Will Ospreay just based on their views or actions outside of the ring get ripped on constantly. Even when they involved in something good they get torn down, just because they not flavour of the month.

Then other guys who do average stuff like Big E, Hobbs, Hook, are written about are like they the next big thing. The angle With Punk and Hobbs was only good because of the heat generated because punk got attacked. I liked the angle and I have no issue with Hobbs getting a match to help him grow as a performer with Punk.

But compare him with Jade Cargill and it's night and day on how far both have progressed as acts. Hobbs is average at best at this point in his career, I think he needs at least two years. Or he would benefit for being sent to new japan next year and working the G1 just to improve his in ring work, as he's got good mechanics but he needs lots of experience to get to the next level.

Hopefully Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard and Taz are doing interview seminars with these guys and gals back stage.

I think cancel culture, snow flake brigade has unfortunately had an effect here. 

In some cases like with Jericho's Gay slur it is 100% warranted and that shouldn't be used to get a pop in 2021. But Cody and Malaki had a return good angle with a cool brawl and the people reacted strong to it. Malaki is the new cool guy on the brand, so he was always going to get cheered, over who ever he feuded with. Cody did his job and put him over strong and in the match next week I'm guessing it will be heated and they have a good match. But Cody gets nothing but negative comments on here, even when he done nothing wrong so far in the build up for this match.  

The only problem's I had with last night show is yes Dan Lambert needs to go, or tone down his act a lot. As I think it's a turn off for the audience, especially if what he's saying has too much truth in it. The second is that it was over kill with the two separate brawls into the crowd last night, but that's a small point.

I have no problem with good debate or discussion, but I do feel a lot of it not based on the true merits of the individual involved. But their personal politics or how nice they are is factored in when it comes on how they viewed.   

I do think Black life's also plays apart with all the Big E love on this board and I wish people would just say that the WWE has been a racist company and they need a strong positive black role model in the top spot. That I understand and can't argue with, I just wish they had used Keith Lee in that spot as for me he has more upside as a main eventer.

     

 

 

  

 

 

it's become. 

[MoS]

Yes, we all think Big E is a great main event talent and that Hobbs has tons of potential due to their race. Totally. You have truly cracked our inner motivation, good for you

[MoS]

Also, personally, a bit weird to use Jade as a contrast to Hobbs, when she looked really green last night, and the match was carried by Leyla putting her in the right spots. Jade has an excellent look but I am not convinced she is as athletic and strong as she is being portrayed to be. It happens with ridiculously ripped bodybuilder types sometimes; they're not very strong. For instance I think Kris Statlander is stronger. Keeping yourself constantly dehydrated is terrible for your strength. 

In contrast, Hobbs wrestles like a big strong dude who can throw you around, exactly like he should. I am not saying he is having amazing singles matches, but I think they have been perfectly fine and his presence and look add a great aura to Team Taz. I don't know how long he has been wrestling for, but I don't see any reason to protest against pushing him right now. He and Team Taz are certainly over.

[ragemaster]

Suppose I meant her ring presence, she looks more like a star than Hobbs, as a wrestler yes Hobbs is way a head in the ring. But I don't think you can teach her charisma, I just mean she has more upside long term than Hobbs does. 

I don't object to his push, as you can't beat for the next two years until he is ready, as by then he won't mean anything when he is pushed. I just think he gets more praise than his skill set warrants at this point in time. Where I can see why people are high on Jade, as in a year or two she will be a big star in the business if she stays with it.