All Elite Wrestling

[sek69]

8 hours ago, El-P said:

This is bizarre as fuck, especially the fact they gave him the TNT title back at this time. Also, having a TNT interim champion with a belt for two weeks was odd as fuck too. Everything is just bizarre and none of it makes sense. Unless he's very at odds with Omega & The Bucks (he says he is not), I have no idea why anyone would think he'd leave the company he helped create only 3 years ago when they are still growing.

I don't think he's leaving, but it seems pretty clear him and the other EVPs are on different pages in terms of vision and that's why the Codyverse seems so detached from everything else going on. Like, I don't think they hate each other or get into fistfights behind the scenes, but it seems clear they have different visions. 

[PeteF3]

Moxley's coming back on Wednesday, as well.

[Cowboy Hats 4.0]

The interim TNT title thing remains so so weird.

[Matt D]

Cole vs Kaun from last night:

There's probably nothing in wrestling I hate more right now than the opening of Adam Cole's studio matches. The fans sing along to the song. They do the boom. Then he teases throwing the shirt. They go nuts for it. He kicks it away denying them all. Do they boo? No. The match starts. Cole locks up. He disengages. He shouts Adam Cole Bay-Bay. They all chant along. What a bunch of pathetic losers. In the end, though, it's Cole's fault. He's the one conducting the music. If he realizes that the reactions are broken, he needs to change something. This isn't some sort of meta-thing where he's trying specifically to get under my skin. It's just him being a cool heel and the crowd eating it up. But it's gross that they get such a kick out of him abusing them and then go right back for more and I don't even want to watch his matches after that. Anyway Kaun looked ok but not necessarily better than Bison in the next match, so whatever.

[El-P]

45 minutes ago, Matt D said:

There's probably nothing in wrestling I hate more right now than the opening of Adam Cole's studio matches. The fans sing along to the song. They do the boom. Then he teases throwing the shirt. They go nuts for it. He kicks it away denying them all. Do they boo? No. The match starts. Cole locks up. He disengages. He shouts Adam Cole Bay-Bay. They all chant along. What a bunch of pathetic losers. 

Terrible comment to make. They paid to attend a pro-wrestling show and have fun attending a pro-wrestling show. Yeah, that's awful, I know, how dare they. Good things there are people on a niche pro-wrestling board setting the record straight always not only on how pro-wrestling *should* be worked (no) but also passing judgment on the fans and how they should react (no).

Seriously, this is ridiculous. You hate it ? Cool. No one asks you to enjoy it. You don't want to watch the match after that (I know, the indignity of it, my God) ? Well, then don't. But acting houlier than thou on the basis of "But that's not how pro-wresting should work ! How dare they be blasphemous with the purity of trve heat ?" is pretty... well, you used the word yourself, pathetic. And laughable, really. Respectfully of course (as always, nothing personal, I'm reacting to the posting, not the person).

[Matt D]

You're right. It's inappropriate to kink shame simps who get off on abuse (or anyone really) in 2022. People are allowed to love however they like, but it's probably not the healthiest relationship imaginable.

[El-P]

17 minutes ago, Matt D said:

but it's probably not the healthiest relationship imaginable.

It's tricky and complicated for sure, but it's not novel nor a recipe for disaster either. Whether Cole should turn babyface or not soon is up to debate (he'll do it eventually, I guess), but the sing-along is what makes a lot of the perception that he is a star, so it's not going away as long as he's over, whatever his stance will be.

To me one of the most fun thing is figuring out what's happening and how things work, and the ambivalence in the relationship of fans toward the classic heel/babyface roles definitions in reference to the actual performers is pretty fascinating. The greatest exemple of this lately was when Tony Schiavone showed up on the ramp to give a hug to Britt Baker, there was so much layers of lectures (between the kayfabe roles which already are ambivalent between Britt & Tony, the fact the audience was cheering the heel because they love her "as a heel", the real-life friendship of Britt & Tony...) happening at the same exact time, actually would be super complex to explain to a non-wrestling fan why it was such a glorious moment (the highlight of that entire match to me, really).

EDIT : and yes, I then had to google simps because English is not my first language. Oh well. 

[Loss]

I don't have an issue with chant-a-longs, but if I was aiming to distinguish myself from WWE, I wouldn't encourage them from fans. I see sing-alongs and routines as part of an entrance as more something part of the WWE house style. It's not a big deal to me either way, but probably something I'd steer away from. I see WWE style stuff seep into other wrestling all the time. The Best Friends camera zoom on the hug is one of the most glaring examples in AEW.

[El-P]

Cole was already doing this in ROH.

That being said, I have no issue with Cole because he's basically an exception (well, Britt actually does the same thing with D.M.D, power couple indeed) but I would not want it to be the way to go in getting people over. Of course, whatever works works, but like you said the more you differentiate yourself from WWE, the better (I was never a fan of the most WWEish stuff Jericho has done in the past).

The zoom-in actually reminds me a lot more of Okada's cam production signature. And since Best Friends are part of Chaos (yes they are), well...

[Loss]

And the Okada thing was ripped off from late 90s/early 00s WWE, or at least it always seemed that way to me.

Before WWE, had any wrestling company in the history of the United States ever had crowd fill-in-the-blank style chants like that? I can't think of any. I guess that's why I think of it in my head as a purely WWE thing that has spilled over elsewhere. That may just be me. I'm not trying to come down hard on it.

[El-P]

8 minutes ago, Loss said:

And the Okada thing was ripped off from late 90s/early 00s WWE, or at least it always seemed that way to me.

I dunno. There was the same zoom-in/out effect on AJW shows in the 90's if I remember right, at the start of the matches. I don't really remember any comparable cam effect as a gimmick in WWE to be honest, but then again maybe I forgot about it.

The fill-in chants probably comes from the Attitude Era indeed. Most notably the New Age Outlaws, Austin & Rock I think.

[Loss]

It seemed like something similar to Rock throwing his elbow pad for the People's Elbow. We'd always get a wide shot.

[El-P]

You're right, I totally forgot about that one. Haven't watch a Rock match in probably 15 years (apart from those Rock vs Cena main events when they happened).

[sek69]

The Best Friends thing was 100% designed as a spoof/homage to the Okada spot ("look at these lovable goofs doing one of the GOAT's spots!"), but I never got the impression Okada's version was in any way WWE inspired. Not saying that it is or isn't, just that it's not a connection my brain ever made when I saw it. 

[TheDuke]

4 hours ago, El-P said:

 

The fill-in chants probably comes from the Attitude Era indeed. Most notably the New Age Outlaws, Austin & Rock I think.

Men on a Mission did the "Whoop There it is" thing earlier in the 90s.

[Flyin' Brian]

You’ve got ECW ‘you fucked up’ chants and ‘Joe’s gonna kill you’ from his ROH days. 

[Flyin' Brian]

Plus ‘we want Flair’ during Luger v Windham in ‘91. 

[sek69]

7 minutes ago, Flyin' Brian said:

You’ve got ECW ‘you fucked up’ chants and ‘Joe’s gonna kill you’ from his ROH days. 

My favorite was always the "Fuck Sabu" chants after he was double booked and chose the one with the lower possibility of the check bouncing. For a guy who's certainly made his share of bad choices in life, that one wasn't one of them. 

[Flyin' Brian]

2 minutes ago, sek69 said:

My favorite was always the "Fuck Sabu" chants after he was double booked and chose the one with the lower possibility of the check bouncing. For a guy who's certainly made his share of bad choices in life, that one wasn't one of them. 

I think he had a good mind for the business but his demons got in the way more often than not. 

[Jmare007]

I asked this in the Dynamite thread but....what's the status on Lio Rush? Is he gone or something? I was eager to watch him with Dante as tag team and eventual rivals and shit didn't even last a month.

[MoS]

Maybe he is injured?? He's on Twitter promoting a music video of his. I sure hope he isn't being punished for publicly confronting TK about the Swole situation, that would more than anything really put the final nail in the coffin on AEW being any different at all from all the wrestling promotions coming before it. 

[Jmare007]

1 hour ago, MoS said:

Maybe he is injured?? He's on Twitter promoting a music video of his. I sure hope he isn't being punished for publicly confronting TK about the Swole situation, that would more than anything really put the final nail in the coffin on AEW being any different at all from all the wrestling promotions coming before it. 

Yeah, but Lio got kinda pushed aside before that. The whole "Dante swerves Team Taz" basically ended the relationship with Lio (unless it was something developed in Dark?) and we didn't see him again. I think he tweeted something encouraging Dante after he turned on Taz but that was it.

[Loss]

Supposedly, he asked for time off because he doesn't want to risk COVID right now.

[Coffey]

22 hours ago, Loss said:

I don't have an issue with chant-a-longs, but if I was aiming to distinguish myself from WWE, I wouldn't encourage them from fans. I see sing-alongs and routines as part of an entrance as more something part of the WWE house style. It's not a big deal to me either way, but probably something I'd steer away from. I see WWE style stuff seep into other wrestling all the time. The Best Friends camera zoom on the hug is one of the most glaring examples in AEW.

Hit the nail on the head with the entrance routines. One of the first things I would do, which is an easy fix if I were involved with AEW, it try to change up my entrance each time I came out. Instead of doing it exactly the same way every single time, like they do in WWE to the point where it doesn't feel natural anymore & starts just feeling like a video game. Music starts - come out & stand here - do a pose - move to there - do a pose, etc. It feels inorganic & doesn't leave any room for spontaneity. 

[MoS]

2 minutes ago, Coffey said:

Hit the nail on the head with the entrance routines. One of the first things I would do, which is an easy fix if I were involved with AEW, it try to change up my entrance each time I came out. Instead of doing it exactly the same way every single time, like they do in WWE to the point where it doesn't feel natural anymore & starts just feeling like a video game. Music starts - come out & stand here - do a pose - move to there - do a pose, etc. It feels inorganic & doesn't leave any room for spontaneity. 

Steve Austin is the reason why I am a wrestling fan, and one of the key reasons was because he would just walk briskly to the ring, jawing and trash-talking, and not waste any time. It would immediately give me an "Oh shit, business just picked up" feeling.