All Elite Wrestling

[Gramsci]

I hope Alvarez is wrong because I refuse to believe that they are stupid enough to make Bryan come out a few days before the PPV to say that he is not going to participate, like: "Hey, I know I'm not booked for Forbidden Door But you know what? I had a match booked with Zack Sabre but it's not gonna happen because I had a concussion. But anyway, buy the PPV!".

It's bad promotion and a stupid decision. If he's not ready to wrestle, just put out a statement on social media saying he's injured.

[Jmare007]

16 minutes ago, Gramsci said:

I hope Alvarez is wrong because I refuse to believe that they are stupid enough to make Bryan come out a few days before the PPV to say that he is not going to participate, like: "Hey, I know I'm not booked for Forbidden Door But you know what? I had a match booked with Zack Sabre but it's not gonna happen because I had a concussion. But anyway, buy the PPV!".

It's bad promotion and a stupid decision. If he's not ready to wrestle, just put out a statement on social media saying he's injured.

I agree, If Danielson is "just" gonna be out 2-3 months then there is no need to continue to put doom & gloom on your TV. Which is why I think it's either really bad news or they might work an angle with the JSA to kayfabe injure him to explain his absence. Then again, if it's truly a concussion, they can't do anything physical (to the point of doing an angle around it, at least).

 

[El-P]

Anyone feeling that NJPW joint PPV will do really poor numbers ? Between Punk not being there, Okada not being there, a bunch of random tags and multi-men/team matches as opposed to straight dream matches, Toni Storm vs Thunder Rosa which is a really cool match that I can't wait for but has nothing to do on a AEW/NJPW PPV and should have been reserved for TV main event the next Wednesday or something, the lucha promotions debacle which prevents Andrade or Lucha Brothers to get on the card, I'm afraid if this goes wrong it's the end of the experiment and we don't get another one in better conditions, which would suck, because there is so much they could do together.

[Migs]

4 minutes ago, El-P said:

Anyone feeling that NJPW joint PPV will do really poor numbers ? Between Punk not being there, Okada not being there, a bunch of random tags and multi-men/team matches as opposed to straight dream matches, Toni Storm vs Thunder Rosa which is a really cool match that I can't wait for but has nothing to do on a AEW/NJPW PPV and should have been reserved for TV main event the next Wednesday or something, the lucha promotions debacle which prevents Andrade or Lucha Brothers to get on the card, I'm afraid if this goes wrong it's the end of the experiment and we don't get another one in better conditions, which would suck, because there is so much they could do together.

I guess the question is poorly in what context, because I don't know who's driving the us and what metrics they are using.

AEW, I'm sure, is looking at PPV numbers. If they don't do well on PPV, maybe they never do another giant joint PPV - but I'm also not sure that's the worst thing, given how they've struggled to put this card together. But I can't imagine a weak PPV showing would make them not want to have access to NJ guys for big angles, unless NJ has conditioned that on doing a big show together.

NJ... I feel like they roll old school and see the sellout as proof of concept. Same as how they did the NOAH card. It's been part of their struggles generally in the US - they just can't seem to figure out how to consistently deliver a card, with enough promotion, to sell tickets. So I don't see them backing out, unless this makes them feel like they can do it on their own again.

[Jmare007]

Yeah, the show sold out and it's gonna do another 1 million dollar gate so if anything, future joint shows will just be special TV shows.

[El-P]

34 minutes ago, Migs said:

But I can't imagine a weak PPV showing would make them not want to have access to NJ guys for big angles, unless NJ has conditioned that on doing a big show together.

Of course. I meant do another joint show.

25 minutes ago, Jmare007 said:

Yeah, the show sold out and it's gonna do another 1 million dollar gate so if anything, future joint shows will just be special TV shows.

That could be another option, although if the last ratings have been an indication, doesn't work that well for now on TV.

On NJPW's side, having big matches with AEW stars at WK next year would be a good test. Hopefully that happens. Now, with the booking slump Gedo seems to be in, I prefer not to get my hopes up and just whatever happens will happen.

[NintendoLogic]

You'd figure that if Danielson were too injured to work the PPV, he'd be too injured to fly in for Dynamite.

[KawadaSmile]

1 hour ago, NintendoLogic said:

You'd figure that if Danielson were too injured to work the PPV, he'd be too injured to fly in for Dynamite.

That's my take on it as well, even more so considering they gave us almost no information on his health for like two weeks. Doing so now when there is a PPV to sell seems counterproductive.

I guess we'll get the bait and switch and the ZSJ match announced tonight.

[Jmare007]

Ok, this is ridiculous. Now Ishii got injured. Put everyone on a bubble until Sunday, can't take no more chances anymore

https://twitter.com/njpwglobal/status/1540107440380735488

[El-P]

*facepalm*

This PPV is so snakebit. Not that the absence of Ishii will make any difference in term of PPV buys, and Clark Connors has a chance for a big showcase match which is cool for him. But damn.

[rovert]

Forbidden Door still has great talent depth.

The actual, active AEW roster list that appears next Wednesday on Dynamite and whose isn't out until 2023 is a much more worrisome issue.

The last two weeks has lead to AEW going "WWE" and asking talent not to disclose their injuries and surgeries. However, I will say to Tony Khan's credit he hasn't false advertised anyone yet.

But AEW's public list of injuries is the tip of the iceberg. Top line scene-wise Punk and Danielson is just the start. 

Dynamite next Wednesday will be a reshuffle/restart. But I've deep concerns if Tony is up to the challenge as he has more than displayed he has reached the traditional 3-year burnout point of any booker. And has overdosed on his booking tropes the last month specifically.

[Loss]

For whatever it's worth, I don't think they need to clear their normal PPV numbers for this to be considered a success. Mike Tenay supposedly thinks 90K is the magic number.

For years to come, there will always be debate about whether the issue is that Americans don't know who all these New Japan guys are and aren't invested in seeing them, or if the injury bug is the problem.

To me, AEW started peaking around this time last year and had an amazing summer and an even better fall. 2022 has been up and down, but the period since Revolution has felt like a major decline to me.

[rovert]

1 minute ago, Loss said:

For whatever it's worth, I don't think they need to clear their normal PPV numbers for this to be considered a success. Mike Tenay supposedly thinks 90K is the magic number.

For years to come, there will always be debate about whether the issue is that Americans don't know who all these New Japan guys are and aren't invested in seeing them, or if the injury bug is the problem.

 To me, AEW started peaking around this time last year and had an amazing summer and an even better fall. 2022 has been up and down, but the period since Revolution has felt like a major decline to me.

If you are Tony Khan you have to be secretly rooting for Forbidden Door be a 85k PPV rather than a 100k one or beyond. Rather than a crazy success that has fans and PPV companies clamouring for AEW to do monthly PPVs.

Also running ROH full time let alone trying to revive a dead brand is a full-time, 24/7 job. Tony has scheduled another ROH PPV in a month's time.

AND Tony has to navigate Fulham's promotion into English Premiership League and level up their squad this Summer so to insure they don't get relegated AGAIN.

Abject insanity. A stomach ulcer at best, a heart attack/early grave at worst.

[KawadaSmile]

AND he still has his Chief Football Strategy Officer spot in the Jacksonville Jaguars, who have been one of the fucking worst teams in the NFL in the past couple of seasons. He has way too much on his plate.

[Matt D]

1 hour ago, rovert said:

The actual, active AEW roster list that appears next Wednesday on Dynamite and whose isn't out until 2023 is a much more worrisome issue.

And people were complaining about the roster being way too big a few months ago. 

[El-P]

7 hours ago, Loss said:

To me, AEW started peaking around this time last year and had an amazing summer and an even better fall. 

To me they started peaking earlier (basically when Omega won the title, although the first months were still happening during the pandemic era) and I would agree the high point was during the Summer/Fall.

One thing not many people will want to hear is that really the most compelling long-term booking done in AEW was the Omega/Young Bucks/Hangman "drama", as it had the most depths from years before the company even started, and these guys were used to construct long-term stories based on their real-life relationship. This is why it was so compelling in the long term and probably why after that point, the company looked less focused especially on top. The two big focused angles they ran were CM Punk vs MJF and Wardlow vs MJF, none of which were for the AEW title. All two built around a guy who will or will not leave the company, depending on where the Pillman fetish leads him.

It has been three years. I was thinking about that, I waited for about 17 years to get an alternative that I actually liked, and when it finally happened it was the perfect fit at the perfect  time for me, it's like everything I had watched until them led me to that point (getting the past of US wrestling out of my system for good, getting accustomed to modern product first via Lucha Underground, which has opened my mind soooo much then going through TNA as a way to fill the 00's void in term of evolution of styles, pun intended, then getting into the contemporary NJPW stuff about at the moment it peaked). And it got me my best and most fun three years ever as a pro-wrestling fan. If everything stopped right now, of course it would suck, especially for the talent, but I absolutely had my fill for life.

Also, three years is a long time. The stupid cliché about "love only lasts three years" notwithstanding, the infamous booker fatigue that has been talked about has to kick in at some point. And it's not like he's just the booker (not to mention his other businesses). You can see the signs all over the product. The most significant to me is the All-Atlantic belt. I have no idea how this looked like a good idea to anyone. Another tournament right after the Owen (which was a tournament... and nothing more), for another belt, when the TNT title booking has been all over the place (and fuck me if I don't care about it going into Wardlow's World, already the most annoying thing in AEW this catchphrase, so WWE). And then you have Samoa Joe running around (well, not really) with the ROH Television championship. And remember Weeler Yuta got the ROH Whatever Pure title ? And there's a woman champ and a world champ around too.

Oh yeah, running ROH as a separate promotion is a BAD idea. Not that the product can't be cool, but there's already way too much product out there. I'm thinking about letting IMPACT on the side for now, as I'm getting burned out (also, IMPACT works well in binge-watch mode and you don't get another major happening there anymore unlike when Omega was around, so spoilers don't really matter). Last thing I want is another TV show I might get interested in. The one thing I definitely would love to watch now is if another product like LU would get off the ground. Something different, out there, that can open doors for some new things. Or simply a last season for GLOW (so frustrating ).

AEW is not new anymore. It exists, and it's great for everybody (just ask Cody Rhodes). But it has to find the right balance now, leading into their next TV rights contracts. Keeping things focused (maybe get some help with the booking by a guy who is actually good at it aka no one from WWE, to get some pressure of the boss shoulders) and fresh (working with so many other company and having such a vast amount of talent will do that part).

[Loss]

To me, this is the time to push Wardlow, Keith Lee, Ricky Starks, Jungle Boy, Darby Allin and HOOK as much as possible and hope that at least one of them catches fire way more than expected. I also think tag teams should occupy the main event picture for a while. Young Bucks vs FTR III will have big appeal, and we know Young Bucks vs reDragon is coming eventually, although I hope it works out where Fish and O'Reilly are healthy by the time Omega returns.

Part of me also thinks they need to also start running house shows so everyone is getting more reps, and just treat it as a loss leader. Injuries actually seem to go down when wrestlers work more frequently because their bodies have to adjust less to getting in the ring. I don't even think they need to necessarily feature all the top stars and run major markets. They can go for 500-1000 seat buildings in medium sized markets and people like the names above, Strickland, The Acclaimed, etc. can be the attractions. Just something to keep people working more, and give people like Jade Cargill who need ring time in the worst way a place to get it.

[strobogo]

I think it's hard to say AEW has "peaked" when it's only been around for three years. The influx of WWE talent changed the vibe and style a bit, not unlike WCW in 1994/1995, but after some growing pains, it felt like WCW again. It still feels a lot more like WCW than WWE and that's pretty much enough for me. TK definitely needs some help, though. Even the biggest AEW mark can't deny that. There is a wealth of access to great wrestling minds backstage.

[El-P]

47 minutes ago, strobogo said:

I think it's hard to say AEW has "peaked" when it's only been around for three years. 

It doesn't mean there won't be bigger peaks in the future of course, it's never linear. If the promotion lasts say ten years at least, then it will be easier to define one definitive peak out of those years. But as of now, I feel a first peak has come and gone and right now it's in a transition period. 

[Stiva]

Shuffling the tag teams to the main event scene is a great idea. Bucks vs FTR III could easily main event All Out if they’re willing to wait that long but you also have reDragon, Moxley/Kingston, Jericho/Sammy, Swerve/Lee, Starks/Hobbs, Lucha Bros, Andrade/Rush, Roppongi Vice, the list is endless with combos that could anchor Dynamite main events and even Fight for the Fallen. Make AEW a tag territory for 6 months, TK.

And get someone else to book ROH while you’re at it. 

[rovert]

On 6/24/2022 at 2:05 AM, rovert said:

Forbidden Door still has great talent depth.

The actual, active AEW roster list that appears next Wednesday on Dynamite and whose isn't out until 2023 is a much more worrisome issue.

The last two weeks has lead to AEW going "WWE" and asking talent not to disclose their injuries and surgeries. However, I will say to Tony Khan's credit he hasn't false advertised anyone yet.

But AEW's public list of injuries is the tip of the iceberg. Top line scene-wise Punk and Danielson is just the start. 

Dynamite next Wednesday will be a reshuffle/restart. But I've deep concerns if Tony is up to the challenge as he has more than displayed he has reached the traditional 3-year burnout point of any booker. And has overdosed on his booking tropes the last month specifically.

Not a victory lap or a back pat. 

I wish I give Tony Khan a hug or buy him a pint.

Jungle Boy is publicly confirmed as injured. After Christian's hot promo on Dynamite and everything.

And there's still MUCH MORE TO COME.

[Matt D]

7 hours ago, rovert said:

Jungle Boy is publicly confirmed as injured. After Christian's hot promo on Dynamite and everything.

Trick now is to give Christian a reign of terror where he continuously works everyone until JB can come back to stop him.

[KawadaSmile]

Christian Cage, AEW Champ? 

[Matt D]

4 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Christian Cage, AEW Champ? 

Christian Cage, Interim Jungle Boy.

[Embrodak]

Tony discovering in real time why WWE makes their wrestlers work a safer style. Some of the veterans (not the Hardyz) need to step in and tell these younger guys why they shouldn’t be taking such gruesome bumps on a regular basis. Sammy and Darby are one mistiming away from paralysis. Been watching Mid South again, and goddamn, it’s amazing how much action and drama and hard hitting can be packed into a relatively safe working style.