Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 Hasn't wrestling always had effeminate men wearing makeup? Including some that were huge stars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 I've watched pro-wrestling for almost 30 years. I spend more time in my life than most men watching muscled up guys in underwears rubbing against each other pretending to fight. Homophobia in pro-wresting is a fucking hilarious thing when you think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said: Hasn't wrestling always had effeminate men wearing makeup? Including some that were huge stars? Yeah, but they were almost always heels where their effeminate mannerisms were designed to get heel heat. To think that people in 2019 aren't ready to accept an effeminate character as anything but a conduit for heel heat is honestly the same shit we get mad at advertisers for when they paint all wrestling fans as poor, dumb hicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 There's a world of difference between being merely effeminate (like, say, Velveteen Dream) and getting off on forcing your opponent's face into your ass. If a male wrestler did that to a woman, it would be regarded as sexual assault. Having a flamboyantly gay wrestler do it only serves to validate the most pernicious anti-gay stereotypes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted May 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 I don't know if it was here or on DVDVR but someone mentioned Nyla Rose. I think it is to the company's credit that she is a transgender wrestler but it doesn't define the character she is playing. It also doesn't seem to be something the company is running away from. Despite the Cornette-Sonny Kiss nonsense, there is real progress being made, especially if they stay the course with Rose where she is judged as a performer and not for her gender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 Ricky Starr was one of the biggest babyfaces of his era, and that was in the 1960s. Adrian Street was a heel in the US more often than he was a babyface, but he was credibly pushed as a lead babyface in Alabama. Of course, having Linda with him probably changed the dynamic a bit, even for someone who looked and acted like Street. I get Cornette's criticism that Sonny Kiss wasn't properly explained by the announcers, but I absolutely think that Kiss can get over today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 I pointed out on Twitter that Sonny Kiss was similar to Adrian Street, Adrian Adonis, Rico & early Goldust. Apparently that wasn't the right thing to do either. So I just don't know anymore, man. Twitter wrestling is pretty bad in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 hour ago, El-P said: I've watched pro-wrestling for almost 30 years. I spend more time in my life than most men watching muscled up guys in underwears rubbing against each other pretending to fight. Homophobia in pro-wresting is a fucking hilarious thing when you think about it. In a way, it seems like the most obvious thing in the world because if you have any of that self-awareness but you also feel insecure about it then you'll over-compensate with the homophobia etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 @Coffey, I think that GO PRO WRESTLING person is implying Sonny Kiss legitimately forced people's faces into his ass non-consensually. That's how Twitter works, right? Take one line, twist it based on any remotely vagueness in the wording, and then run off with an accusatory tone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 Yeah, I find Twitter to be an absolute cesspool. Awful tech too as it's a bandwidth hog on your phone and runs like shit most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 2 hours ago, El-P said: If american pro-wrestling fans in 2019 can't get behind a guy like Sonny Kiss, fuck them seven ways to Sunday. It would mean they are the dumbest pro-wrestling fans in the world. Did you see who this country elected President? This isn't surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 Corny "clarified" his comments about Sonny Kiss - by redirecting it into a tweetstorm about Joey Ryan. https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/05/jim-cornette-clarifies-his-comments-about-sonny-kiss-654700/ Corny's gonna Corny, I guess. 3 hours ago, Coffey said: I pointed out on Twitter that Sonny Kiss was similar to Adrian Street, Adrian Adonis, Rico & early Goldust. Apparently that wasn't the right thing to do either. So I just don't know anymore, man. Twitter wrestling is pretty bad in general. That comparison seems perfectly fine to me. Even if Sonny Kiss is exactly the same way outside the ring (who knows), that doesn't automatically invalidate the obvious similarities between him and the characters of the Adrians, Goldust, Rico, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 Wrestling Twitter is where the future of the community lies. People our age may not give a fuck about it, but spaces like that & Tumblr have already raised one microgeneration and are continuing to do so as we speak. Again, look at that article i linked a couple pages back or so - that's more the kind of audience i suspect AEW is going for in the long run. It makes sense considering that women, transgender & nonbinary people are gaining greater media platforms and becoming more open about their fandom as time goes on; the PWO demographic is a dead end in comparison. It's the same reason the comic book industry has been willing to eat shorter-term losses to get POC & female superheroes over, and WWE hasn't exactly hit a home run with this crowd... re: the Cornette stuff, "transvestite" is an outdated term that is often used to refer to actual trans people even though it shouldn't. Just "cross-dresser" or something at least wouldn't have any implication that an obviously cisgender gay guy is trans. Have a thousand words i could say on the Islamophobia discussion, but i'll leave it at this: white liberals are absolutely no less capable of it than Republicans are, and Maher & Hitchens are not exactly favorable comparisons for you here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 A gimmick can still be a gimmick even if it's "real life." Punk's straight-edginess, Bryan's righteous liberalism, Boss Man's past as a prison guard, Paul Bearer's past as a mortician, Ricki Starr's ballet-dancing...these were all both gimmicks and "real." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 17 hours ago, NintendoLogic said: Sorry, but I can't see a full-blown exotico getting over in America beyond a niche audience. More importantly, I see it as a huge turnoff to a significant portion of the fanbase, particularly the lapsed fans AEW is aiming for. I can understand the trepidation but if there's anyone of this generation that could cross over and win hearts and minds it is Sonny. Has the charisma and ring work to win everyone over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 8 hours ago, C.S. said: Corny "clarified" his comments about Sonny Kiss - by redirecting it into a tweetstorm about Joey Ryan. https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/05/jim-cornette-clarifies-his-comments-about-sonny-kiss-654700/ Corny's gonna Corny, I guess. Ok, I have to be honest here. I enjoy both guy, but Ryan talking about "homophobic rant" and inciting people to tag MLW and basically make a fuss and try have Cornette get fired or something (because that's what you do these day as a true SJW) is weak sauce. Poor choice of word notwithstanding, taking about "homophobic rant" in this case is stupid. 8 hours ago, funkdoc said: Wrestling Twitter is where the future of the community lies. People our age may not give a fuck about it, but spaces like that & Tumblr have already raised one microgeneration and are continuing to do so as we speak. Except these aren't place for actual discussions because of how they work. Social media have a distinct terrible impact on people (Hell, it's already a proven fact social media have had a terrible impact on political issues and democracy as a whole already). Everytime I check Wrestling Twitter, I'm appalled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 I am going to defend Twitter. I see it bashed time and time again. I think if you take the time and cull a good list of places to follow it can incredibly informative. I can find out the news, sports scores, who is on tour, wrestling news, latest history book releases. It is just a one stop shop. I have gotten into some good discussions and learned a lot. I have gotten into bad discussions. I once had Lance Storm explain to me that Ultimo Dragon deserved to be in the WON HOF by tweeting me the famous Dragon J-Crown picture, which is a stupid rationale. I had a person tell me to drown in zebra cum because I thought Lex Luger is better than Sting. It is just funny. No reason to get worked up. I'm pro-Twitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 It's a tool like any other tool and it's all how you use it. For instance, I don't use it at all for wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, Matt D said: It's a tool like any other tool and it's all how you use it. How the tool is conceived is driving how it is being used though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 Just looked over for a few seconds on Twitter. Joey Ryan talking about "hate speech" is ridiculous. It makes actual hate speech seem like a trivial issue. Even Sonny Kiss referring to this as an "attack" (to his credit, under quotation marks, so he's not going all the way) seems like going a bit overboard. Like a French comedian said in her show, a lot of people now have the emotional maturity of a 6 months old. Corny should know better. And as far as Ryan goes, honestly, from a guy who worked (or still does) with such a despicable company as Pornhub, he should maybe not play the moral soldier, really.Yeah, kinda disappointed by all people involved here (expect Sonny, who obviously didn't ask to be called a transvestite). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 26 minutes ago, El-P said: Just looked over for a few seconds on Twitter. Joey Ryan talking about "hate speech" is ridiculous. It makes actual hate speech seem like a trivial issue. Even Sonny Kiss referring to this as an "attack" (to his credit, under quotation marks, so he's not going all the way) seems like going a bit overboard. Like a French comedian said in her show, a lot of people now have the emotional maturity of a 6 months old. Corny should know better. And as far as Ryan goes, honestly, from a guy who worked (or still does) with such a despicable company as Pornhub, he should maybe not play the moral soldier, really.Yeah, kinda disappointed by all people involved here (expect Sonny, who obviously didn't ask to be called a transvestite). I have no idea what Joey Ryan said, but I can't help but think he'd be a lot further in his career without the dick stuff and has never really needed it - it's only hindered his progress, not helped it. IMO, his "I choose indy wresting" Dylan McKay bullshit is a smokescreen and my theory is that AEW gently turned him down because his act would not fly on TNT, but that is pure speculation on my part. Regardless of what Ryan said or didn't say, the reason Corny's not getting the benefit of the doubt is because this isn't his first rodeo when it comes to these types of comments. He has only himself to blame for that. Like you said, he really should know better. 11 hours ago, funkdoc said: but i'll leave it at this: white liberals are absolutely no less capable of it than Republicans are The movie Get Out is about exactly this. 1 hour ago, Superstar Sleeze said: I am going to defend Twitter. I see it bashed time and time again. I think if you take the time and cull a good list of places to follow it can incredibly informative. I can find out the news, sports scores, who is on tour, wrestling news, latest history book releases. It is just a one stop shop. I have gotten into some good discussions and learned a lot. I have gotten into bad discussions. I once had Lance Storm explain to me that Ultimo Dragon deserved to be in the WON HOF by tweeting me the famous Dragon J-Crown picture, which is a stupid rationale. I had a person tell me to drown in zebra cum because I thought Lex Luger is better than Sting. It is just funny. No reason to get worked up. I'm pro-Twitter. But doesn't Ultimo Dragon deserve to be in the WON HOF, regardless of Lance Storm's lazy reasoning? In any case, it's kind of cool that you got a response from Lance Storm! (I'm guessing he's hated around these parts though because of the tantrum he threw over the DVDVR 500.) Something as downright stupid/hilarious as "drown in zebra cum" is a pro for Twitter. Would love to hear more of your reasoning re: Sting/Lex. My first instinct would be Sting, but now you have me reflecting on some of Lex's more memorable moments. I am curious to hear your rationale for picking Lex. BTW, AEW absolutely needs its own "Lex Luger" for the first TNT show, but there is nobody who fits the bill, unless they can pull off a miracle and get CM Punk (unlikely) or stealthily grab someone like a John Cena or even Randy Orton (will never happen). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 36 minutes ago, C.S. said: IMO, his "I choose indy wresting" Dylan McKay bullshit is a smokescreen and my theory is that AEW gently turned him down because his act would not fly on TNT, but that is pure speculation on my part. Yeah, that part is odd. Wasn't he on an indy goodbye tour after he got his release from LU ? He's actually a really good worker, and although I for one am not bothered one bit by the dick spot, I agree at this point he could just be an effective worker without that prop spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 hour ago, C.S. said: I have no idea what Joey Ryan said, but I can't help but think he'd be a lot further in his career without the dick stuff and has never really needed it - it's only hindered his progress, not helped it. IMO, his "I choose indy wresting" Dylan McKay bullshit is a smokescreen and my theory is that AEW gently turned him down because his act would not fly on TNT, but that is pure speculation on my part. Completely disagree. The dick stuff is the only reason people care about him. Without it, he's just a dollar store Adam Cole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 hour ago, NintendoLogic said: Completely disagree. The dick stuff is the only reason people care about him. Without it, he's just a dollar store Adam Cole. Don't know where the Adam Cole comparison comes from, as I've never seen any similarities between the two. Ryan was doing this faux-Rick Rude/gigolo gimmick long before the dick stuff came into it. He can easily go back to that. I remember it working for him in TNA. I'm not suggesting he completely drop the essence of his character, just the dumb dick spots that are clearly holding him back from a major league career at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 The Cole comparison may not be particularly apt, but I was trying to think of an undersized indy guy who isn't particularly flippy and he's the first one who came to mind. My overall point is that there's nothing major league about Joey Ryan. The Rick Rude knockoff act is already bush league as hell, and it's not like he has size or ability going for him. He's indy for life, and the easiest way to get over on the indies is through shitty meme comedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.