AEW on TNT

[...TG]

52 minutes ago, sek69 said:

It's like AEW found the Infinity Gauntlet and snapped back all the wrestling fans that disappeared in 2001.

Let's wait until the second month of running basketball arenas before we come to that conclusion. I hope they can become a long-term success and they're obviously off to a great start, but there's a long, long way to go.

[sek69]

4 minutes ago, ...TG said:

Let's wait until the second month of running basketball arenas before we come to that conclusion. I hope they can become a long-term success and they're obviously off to a great start, but there's a long, long way to go.

 

I agree, but even if they sell out every show some folks will still move the goalposts. 

[goodhelmet]

7 hours ago, El-P said:

But the Librarians suuuuuuuuuucks.... and comedy garbage pasty guys transvestite bouhhhhhhh flippy flops.... HTTP 404

The Librarians do suck. The comedy garbage also sucks. It's also lower card bullshit and won't help elevate any of the talent doing that shit anytime soon.  For someone who has spent his entire time here bashing WWE and reviewing horrible wrestling promotions (plus ECW) to all of a sudden turning a blind eye to bad wrestling segments is quite jarring. 

 

[El-P]

5 hours ago, goodhelmet said:

The Librarians do suck. The comedy garbage also sucks. It's also lower card bullshit and won't help elevate any of the talent doing that shit anytime soon.  For someone who has spent his entire time here bashing WWE and reviewing horrible wrestling promotions (plus ECW) to all of a sudden turning a blind eye to bad wrestling segments is quite jarring. 

Ok. My post was a joke making fun of all the haters who only focus on the unimportant parts of the show, forgetting what's actually the selling point. Thought it was obvious. People are in denial of AEW's current success. So, that was the sound of brains melting. (damn, a joke is always less funny when you have to explain it)

As far as "turning a blind eye to bad wrestling segment", please, don't go that way. I've said the Dark Order gimmick sucks. I've called Jimmy Havoc a shitty garbage comedy worker on MLW before (he just hasn't done anything offensive in AEW yet, him working straight in the six men match was actually pretty decent). I've criticized the lenghts and structure of the main event at Fyter Fest. As far as the Librarians, I've said a a zillion times before : it's ok to me. And the Battle Royal at All-In was *good* to me. I enjoy Sonny Kiss (although like I said, he didn't look nearly as good at Fyter Fest as he ever did in LU), I enjoy Joey Janela, I enjoy Marko Stunt, Orange Cassidy makes me laugh. So, there it is.

Now, will I focus a lot more on what I enjoy in AEW, like I did before in LU and like I do now in IMPACT ? Of course, because I actually like the promotion (thus far). And it's different to review stuff from the past and watch things happen in real time too (you tend to give more of a pass to some stuff because you don't know how it is gonna end up, whereas it was easy to trump WCW 99-01 or parts of TNA into the ground with the benefits of hindsight). Will I be more forgiving ? Probably. Is that bias ? I would guess you can call it that. But again, if something I really dislike or find is shit happens in any promotion, I don't think I'll have trouble pointing it out. You don't see me talk about those great Bad Luck Fale matches in the G1... There's some things I'm not too sure about in AEW (including some I don't talk about), but like I said, I'm still in the wait & see mode as far as these go. Thus far, they've been pretty ok with their choices. I mean, Shawn Spears and Tully ?

But the haters in denial of what's actually happening now, yeah, you can make fun of a bit.

[goodhelmet]

I get it. It doesn't seem like joking because you haven't really been critical of their misfires up to this point. However, you should be given the benefit of the doubt.  

[El-P]

56 minutes ago, goodhelmet said:

It doesn't seem like joking because you haven't really been critical of their misfires up to this point.

One : well, yes I have. We just disagree on some of what may constitute a misfire.

Two : I've been around way too long already. You should know by now I'm making jokes and snarky comments all the time.
 

[goodhelmet]

Week 2 - Boston

Week 3 - Philly

[Laz]

2 hours ago, goodhelmet said:

Week 2 - Lowell

Fixed. It's about an hour outside of Boston, about half an hour from my house. Going.

[goodhelmet]

Damn... how far outside of Boston do you have to be before you aren't advertising Boston as a location?

[Matt D]

16 minutes ago, goodhelmet said:

Damn... how far outside of Boston do you have to be before you aren't advertising Boston as a location?

Worcester? 

[El-P]

2 hours ago, goodhelmet said:

Damn... how far outside of Boston do you have to be before you aren't advertising Boston as a location?

Next WWE Saudi Show should be presented at being broadcasted from Spain or something. I mean, it's sunny. 

[C.S.]

All I know about Lowell is that it was once considered the crack capital of the country - at least according to the movie The Fighter.

[Laz]

5 hours ago, Matt D said:

Worcester? 

Nope. Outsiders still call it Boston, which pisses the residents (and those nearby) off, especially in the metal scene. Worcester is Boston's uglier, grittier, meaner little brother.

2 hours ago, C.S. said:

All I know about Lowell is that it was once considered the crack capital of the country - at least according to the movie The Fighter.

Not too far off. I mean, the opioid epidemic started in the Milford/Franklin/Bellingham area (my hometown, yay!!), and the state is full of trashy AF people outside of the heavily gentrified towns.

[War is Raw]

I feel the misfires have been overblown. They are experimenting and leaning on the creativity and fanbase which got them here (BTE + Cody's passion/vengeance). The boys are booking their own stuff. I will not argue with success, and AEW has gotten off to a fantastic start and proven much to me compared to other leagues I've seen followed at launch, like Herb's UWF, ECW, Global, TNA,WSX NXT, MLW, LU, and others I've forgotten. Like, this has been a perfect launch in terms of numbers, match ratings, and crowd happiness. Who cares if there is a production glitch?

Khan is the one who mentioned bringing in casuals or lapsed fans. Not sure if that meant 201x ex-WWE fans, Attitude Era fans, or WCW Four Horseman fans. Regardless, Cody I believe recently said something contrary to going after those fans, and wanted to focus on the existing fanbase, as new fans may tune to TNT.

Anyway, I haven't seen the business plan, and I'm not an armchair GM. I actually have faith that Tony Khan's 5-year business plan is pretty good. With all due respect, The Dark Order and The Librarians are so irrelevant to the big picture, it sounds like such an overblown nitpick. Attacking the modern style or garbage wrestling is fine if that is not your taste. Not sure why AEW shouldn't have that style, though. I go to my local indy and it's 80s style workrate with 1-2 new style plancha guys. It's for kids. If TNT is like an Americanized NJPW, I'd be thrilled.

These two glorified houseshows were stop gaps until All Out and TV. Putting them through the ringer so severely really won't hold up years from now. Like, we make fun of WWE's preshows or bad matches and just move on. Can we even recall what happened at MiTB's undercard without looking?

Yes, we have high expectations and I actually think AEW has been putting on better shows than ECW PPVs. I recall 1997 Barely Legal, which also got 100,000 buys (but in a 1,000 seat place), had some disappointing aspects, including a Shane Douglas vs PitBull #2 20-minute bomb. In fact, there was a meme at the time that their TV and house shows were better than their PPVs.

I was prepared to just watch the last three matches for Double of Nothing. I was not grabbed at the beginning. But after I did, I watched the whole card. I've watched everything and have been pleased. Everyone works their gimmicks and hustles. Easy to follow and logical storylines. Can't say the same about WWE.

[Blehschmidt]

4 hours ago, War is Raw said:

 With all due respect, The Dark Order and The Librarians are so irrelevant to the big picture, it sounds like such an overblown nitpick. 

Oh My God, Thank You!

Watching people getting out the hammer and nails to crucify a whole company over a couple masked guys and a joke pre-show gimmick is insane.

We are seriously seeing the first potential competition and what could be a shot in the arm for a stagnant business in 18 years...

Be Fucking Happy.

 

[Laz]

That doesn't change the stupidity of saving things worth watching, that might capture a casual fan's attention, for the $50 show and tossing the stupid jokey stuff on the free TV pre-show. 

[C.S.]

On 8/7/2019 at 8:10 PM, Blehschmidt said:

Oh My God, Thank You!

Watching people getting out the hammer and nails to crucify a whole company over a couple masked guys and a joke pre-show gimmick is insane.

We are seriously seeing the first potential competition and what could be a shot in the arm for a stagnant business in 18 years...

Be Fucking Happy.

 

That's like saying TNA should have gotten a free pass with the Dicks or Johnsons or whatever that gimmick was.

The little things matter.

The Librarians might actually work if Avalon and Bates embraced their gimmicks and looked more like, ya know, librarians. Instead, Avalon looks like a low-rent pimp cosplaying Joey Ryan at Halloween party. Bates looks fine for "generic indie gal #5" but she doesn't look the part of a librarian. 

Dark Order has potential, but their aesthetic needs a serious overhaul.

AEW has been great IMO, and I am happy, but shit is shit.

[Blehschmidt]

I'm not saying that the Librarians gimmick isn't stupid. As for the Dark Order, I don't have any issue with Uno or Dos, but I do think the minions look like shit and I don't really think either guy is intimidating enough to do be doing the lights out, scary gimmick stuff.

But....

My point was that it seems like people were ready to wash their hands of the whole company over this shit, and to me that is fucking ridiculous.

People just rolled their eyes and kept watching during the Ding Dongs.

People just rolled their eyes and kept watching during Glacier

People just rolled their eyes and kept watching during the Gobbeldy Gooker

People just rolled their eyes and kept watching during 1993-1995 WWF

People just rolled their eyes and kept watching during LOL TNA (ok...maybe not)

Yet, this company runs 3 shows, 3 enjoyable shows, and attempts to be the first alternative to the WWE monopoly in 18 years.....and people are hung up on 2 bad gimmicks and a battle royal.

I just can't fathom why there are people who are looking for reason, or who want this to fail.

 

 

[El-P]

24 minutes ago, Blehschmidt said:

Yet, this company runs 3 shows, 3 enjoyable shows, and attempts to be the first alternative to the WWE monopoly in 18 years.....and people are hung up on 2 bad gimmicks and a battle royal.

Because that's the only thing they can criticize yet, unless they go straight into über-biased opinions about "modern wrestling sux movez croosfit lolz. #Cornettehead". I mean, there's nothing there apart from these little things that they can rip apart for now. So we get pages of bitching about the Librarians and the Dark Order over and over and over again because you can't really say nothing much more negative about what AEW is presenting thus far.

9 hours ago, C.S. said:

That's like saying TNA should have gotten a free pass with the Dicks or Johnsons or whatever that gimmick was.

9/10 of early TNA was complete shit (I should know), so obviously, no, it's not the same thing at all.

[goodhelmet]

No, the criticism levied towards the gimmicks (especially on the first 2 shows) was that it was stupid to put garbage on the pre-show if you are trying to attract fans who turned away from wrestling because of said garbage from other companies. The pre-show for DoN had a mixed reaction while the pre-show for Fyterfest was universally panned. It is ok to support a company and cheer for a company while simultaneously criticizing a company for doing stupid shit. The reason that the Librarians and Dark Order gimmicks have been panned over and over again is because they have been on every show. The Dark Order was pretty lame at All Out... fast forward to FFTF and they were still lame (not wrestling wise but gimmick wise). The Librarians were lame at All Out... fast forward to FFTF and they still feel lame. Hell, the main criticism isn't even with gimmicks themselves but the actual presentation. 

[Beast]

On 8/6/2019 at 6:06 PM, Laz said:

Fixed. It's about an hour outside of Boston, about half an hour from my house. Going.

Aren't they using Agganis Arena on the Boston U campus?

NJPW is running Lowell, not AEW.

[Blehschmidt]

1 hour ago, goodhelmet said:

No, the criticism levied towards the gimmicks (especially on the first 2 shows) was that it was stupid to put garbage on the pre-show if you are trying to attract fans who turned away from wrestling because of said garbage from other companies. 

But in reality how many lapsed fans are watching pre-shows of a brand new wrestling promotion on You Tube? 

Most people other than the portion of the fanbase who follow this shit hardcore on the internet aren't going to know AEW even exists until the TNT show debuts or at the very least begins getting commercials played for it on a regular basis, unless they caught a blurb about the Jaguars owner being involved in wrestling on Sports Center.

Now, if the TNT show has a 10 minute Librarian "Shhhh" segment I will be right there with you in thinking WTF are they doing, but a pre-show on a ppv geared toward the pre-existing fanbase means nothing in the long run for this company.

 

[goodhelmet]

If that's the case, why have a pre-show in the first place? This was another criticism... what is the purpose of having a pre-show? If it's because that's just how things are done, not a very forward thinking or reasonable move. If it's to give a teaser of what's on the main show, it's a fail. If it's to warm up the crowd then why not make it dark and not air it? If it's to get people who are on the fence to buy your product then why put crap on the pre-show? 

I understand that Cornette gets a lot of play because he is the loudest voice but many of the criticisms are valid and trying to dismiss these as "small" issues is a mistake that every defunct promotion has made... including companies that Cornette has run. Nobody wants this promotion to succeed more than me but I won't ignore the bad while I am too busy singing the praises of the good. 

[goodhelmet]

Also, this was a small line in the Observer this week...

Quote

While 10/2 will be the first live wrestling show, it will not be the first show on TNT. There is other programming yet to be announced to provide an introduction and build major shows

 

I think this is a great move.

[Makai Club #1]

That's smart, very smart. You do not want new viewers to come in cold because you don't really know how well AEW can promote these guys and make new fans out of that. Building that connection before they wrestle is vital.