WWE TV 11/04 - 11/10 Fish are really smart animals, they avoid oil spots in the sea

[El-P]

23 minutes ago, C.S. said:

Maybe he got worked by his Seth-hating tabloid sources?

Maybe Seth is just lying his ass off, like he always does when towing the company line. At this point, he's got about as credibility as Brucie.

9 minutes ago, FMKK said:

Well all the usual geeks are jumping on this to bury Meltzer and claim he doesn't have the scoopz on NXT and AEW like they have - scoopz that of course they'll only vaguely allude to and never actually reveal.

Of course they are. TBH, whenever Meltz retires, I don't know what happens with pro-wrestling journalism. I mean, actual journalism, not vague people on Twitter with "connections". People doing actual journalist work. Kind of a scary thought actually. It seems crazy he still has to be so important to this day.

[MoS]

I mean, if it's a genuine apology, Meltzer looks good - cuz then it's not a bullshit non-apology apology and is unequivocal. Something Seth could learn from. To his credit, Meltzer has in the past owned up to when he was wrong. A lot of us did think that Seth telling others to not air their dirty laundry on Twitter just seemed so ridiculous even for him.

I guess we will hear Dave talk about it soon on his show. But the most interesting story involving the top guy in wrestling is a Twitter spat with Dave Meltzer is what, this era's version of Hogan burning dirtsheets and saying "Observe this"? We are truly in a dark age again. 

[C.S.]

It's a genuine apology. 

 

[FMKK]

It's quite odd because obviously someone in the company must have fed him the story. So who was bs'ing him/wanting to bury Seth? 

[WingedEagle]

What I find perplexing is why Seth Rollins would want to give such attention to Meltzer & the Observer.

[SirEdger]

Saw this pop up on Twitter as a theory but....you think they might be build to a Tommaso Ciampa vs Roman Reigns at Survivor Series. Of course, we only have the Twitter exchange they had this weekend but I find this interesting, nonetheless.

[Strummer]

Of course this happens to Meltz after I defended him this morning about being right about the Cedric story.

the Meltzer haters get new weeks worth of material now...oh Dave...

[KawadaSmile]

45 minutes ago, SirEdger said:

Saw this pop up on Twitter as a theory but....you think they might be build to a Tommaso Ciampa vs Roman Reigns at Survivor Series. Of course, we only have the Twitter exchange they had this weekend but I find this interesting, nonetheless.

Look I like Ciampa but if they make Roman take the fall I'll be so damn pissed

[MoS]

 

Quote

Hour one: 2.36 million
Hour two: 2.21 million
Hour three: 1.85 million

The third hour was relying on the Seth Rollins vs. Adam Cole NXT championship match to carry the main event. That’s one of the lowest hours in the show’s history. The question is whether or not you blame Rollins, NXT, or WWE more generally for those numbers.

Either way, it’s not good.

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2019/11/5/20950564/wwe-raw-ratings-viewers-seth-rollins-adam-cole-nxt

But hey, Seth got multiple apologies from Meltzer, so he is clearly a winner!

[Johnny Sorrow]

Scuttlebutt is that there was a speech about social media posts during this fuckup with SA, and it was from AJ Styles. I have no idea if that's true, but it totally reads like, "Ok, that checks a lot of boxes" 

[Johnny Sorrow]

8 minutes ago, MoS said:

 

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2019/11/5/20950564/wwe-raw-ratings-viewers-seth-rollins-adam-cole-nxt

But hey, Seth got multiple apologies from Meltzer, so he is clearly a winner!

Given Dave's Twitter persona, I think two might be needed. People in THIS thread weren't sure if the first apology was sincere.

[gordi]

4 hours ago, El-P said:

. TBH, whenever Meltz retires, I don't know what happens with pro-wrestling journalism. I mean, actual journalism, not vague people on Twitter with "connections". People doing actual journalist work. Kind of a scary thought actually. It seems crazy he still has to be so important to this day.

 

We'll still have Bix, at least. I am being 100 % sincere with that.

 

Pro wrestling conversation is hurtling toward the same sort of hell-hole that American political discourse finds itself in. Everyone's going to divide into echo-chamber camps, yell lies at each other, and just get self-righteously offended whenever anyone uses facts or knowledge to counter those lies.

 

We are already at the stage where there is a whole generation of wrestling fans coming up who consider themselves 'experts' and want to be applauded for how much they know. It's going to be impossible to teach them anything or explain anything to them because they are convinced that they already know EVERYTHING there is to know about pro wrestling. That will probably be the case with almost every conceivable discussion topic on all manner of social media very soon, if it isn't already. 

 

People like Meltzer who have genuine connections and knowledge; or like Bix, who do actual legwork and research, will be despised for having the temerity to act like they know more than the self-proclaimed experts. People who have read one paragraph or even one tweet about the early days of TNA or the decline of WCW  will lecture you, El-P, on social media about those topics and they will be furious if you explain what they get wrong.

Mostly, though, they will stay away from boards like this, so my enjoyment of pro wrestling won't be directly affected, since I avoid twitter and so on. Hopefully something like actiual discussion will survive here on these boards. 

 

[El-P]

6 hours ago, gordi said:

Pro wrestling conversation is hurtling toward the same sort of hell-hole that American political discourse finds itself in. Everyone's going to divide into echo-chamber camps, yell lies at each other, and just get self-righteously offended whenever anyone uses facts or knowledge to counter those lies.

Right, and it's true of every topic in society sadly, which is a major problem that is already having effects (the rise of populism across many nation on the planet, including that good old Europe who's been there already; the puritanism that goes along with a fake progressism spread from american colleges across the world via cultural imperialism; conspirationism and whatnot…). But let's keep it PWO. Yeah, it's crazy how much people are acting like little soldiers, while the reality is of course way more complicated. For instance look at all the Youtube comments (yeah, I know, when Youtube comments are an instance of people not being dumb, we've fell off) under NWA Powerr looking forward to the show AND to AEW Dark, so obviously there's no disconnect between being a fan of the two shows, unlike how some people would want to represent the situation of X vs Y. Everything is not polarized.

6 hours ago, gordi said:

People like Meltzer who have genuine connections and knowledge; or like Bix, who do actual legwork and research, will be despised for having the temerity to act like they know more than the self-proclaimed experts.

They already are, honestly. They get shit all the time for doing actual journalist work.

6 hours ago, gordi said:

People who have read one paragraph or even one tweet about the early days of TNA or the decline of WCW  will lecture you, El-P, on social media about those topics and they will be furious if you explain what they get wrong.

Ah ah. Yeah, I'm sure of that. People know. How ? Doesn't matter. They just do.

6 hours ago, gordi said:

Mostly, though, they will stay away from boards like this, so my enjoyment of pro wrestling won't be directly affected, since I avoid twitter and so on. Hopefully something like actiual discussion will survive here on these boards. 

Hopefully yeah we can maintain some space of actual share and exchange, and not validation-seeking posting and hive mentality that is inherent to social medias.

[El-P]

6 hours ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

Scuttlebutt is that there was a speech about social media posts during this fuckup with SA, and it was from AJ Styles.

Why am I not surprised AJ Styles is a corporate stooge ? 

As far as Meltz apology, yeah, it was, but the "I don't want to spread misinfirmation" clearly had a very tongue-in-cheek dry humour aspect to it, because of the choice of words. So it had the best of both worlds. I apologize, but fuck you nonetheless. That's how I red it anyway (maybe because that's the kind of thing I would do myself).

Is Seth a worst world top-of-the-promotion champion than Kevin Nash in 1995 ?

[KawadaSmile]

Seth's 2019 title reign is the worst top title reign since Seth's 2015 one

[Mad Dog]

Yeah. Seth has a fundamental misunderstanding of how wrestling works. Diesel just wasn't a great worker but he understood how it was supposed to work. 

[Rocco]

Jinder was better as champ then Seth.  

[Mad Dog]

Jinder's problem was that he was a lower card guy that suddenly got the title. He just wasn't good enough to fill in main event length matches. He had all the trappings of a good heel act though. Minions that took crazy bumps, great entrance and a willingness to look like a chump for the faces. 

[Slasher]

38 minutes ago, Rocco said:

Jinder was better as champ then Seth.  

Seth sucks but let's get real.

[Rocco]

12 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

Jinder's problem was that he was a lower card guy that suddenly got the title. He just wasn't good enough to fill in main event length matches. He had all the trappings of a good heel act though. Minions that took crazy bumps, great entrance and a willingness to look like a chump for the faces. 

I don't disagree with anything you said.  I still think Jinder on top was better then Seth.  

1 minute ago, Slasher said:

Seth sucks but let's get real.

I'm being real.  Jinder was a better champ then Seth.  Seth should be in a babyface tag team where he barely talks.  

[Stiva]

It’s why Seth was perfect in The Shield because he could flip around like an asshole at the end of those big 6-mans and it was always a hot finishing stretch.

[Slasher]

31 minutes ago, Rocco said:

I don't disagree with anything you said.  I still think Jinder on top was better then Seth.  

I'm being real.  Jinder was a better champ then Seth.  Seth should be in a babyface tag team where he barely talks.  

I don't disagree that the role you describe is the best use of Rollins but Jinder was such a throwaway champion that will probably not be remembered in any way in ten years, and while Rollins's run on top has been nothing good, it certainly is better than Jinder's. Now I will allow that Jinder has a better heel act in general, but not as the top champion.

[Rocco]

15 minutes ago, Slasher said:

I don't disagree that the role you describe is the best use of Rollins but Jinder was such a throwaway champion that will probably not be remembered in any way in ten years, and while Rollins's run on top has been nothing good, it certainly is better than Jinder's. Now I will allow that Jinder has a better heel act in general, but not as the top champion.

Thats all bad booking though.  Seth fails as top guy they take the belt off but still push him on RAW on top against Adam Cole and of course it kills ratings because Seth sucks.  Jinder was booked his whole career as a loser then some genius says we need an Indian guy on top to pop the India market and suddenly Jinder has the belt.  It doesn't work and they progressively push him down the card.  Jinder being a throwaway champion because this company is bad at what they do. 

[Slasher]

I can't argue with that. I just think that given what we have seen from both with good and bad booking, Seth has shown more in his roles than Jinder ever has. Does the booking play a part? Definitely, but I am not comfortable saying Jinder is better based on the idea that he was booked poorly. Seth was better as part of the better booked Shield vs Jinder as part of 3MB. Seth was better as a midcard champion vs Jinder as a midcard champion. Like he was more over than Jinder. Seth was in better programs as a top champion than Jinder was as a throwaway. But I do agree Seth sucks and Jinder might have been better given stronger booking. But that's not what happened, and therefore I cannot in good conscience rate Jinder's run ahead of Seth's.

[SirEdger]

3 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

Jinder's problem was that he was a lower card guy that suddenly got the title. He just wasn't good enough to fill in main event length matches. He had all the trappings of a good heel act though. Minions that took crazy bumps, great entrance and a willingness to look like a chump for the faces. 

Exactly this. Jinder's push came out of the blue because WWE wanted to sweep the rug from under the legs of Impact Wrestling, who just had a breakthrough in the Indian market - and having Sonjay Dutt winning the X-Division there to much fanfare. Sonjay's win had great significance, considering how long he had been working with the promotion without actually winning the title. 6 weeks before Jinder won the WWE title, he was jobbing to Finn Balor in about 5 minutes. In itself, Jinder would've met less resistance as a champ if it had happened progressively. He should've been US champion before being WWE Champion.