The greatest cons in wrestling history

[Guest STAN]

Curiosity, maybe? Does he really need a reason?

No, it's definitely fascinating. Definitely wish David Lynch or someone would make a movie about the sleazy pro wrestling biz.

[Loss]

jdw cons Internet wrestling fans into thinking that Ric Flair sucked.

 

Sorry, it made me laugh and I had to post it.

[jdw]

*laugh*

 

Peobably like some think that I conned the net into thinking Kobashi sucked. Criticism is always read as "hating" or thinking something "suck" rather than simply pointing out flaws, weak points, etc.

 

Of course Flair has sucked in the ring for years. But Flair was good at one point.

 

 

John

[MikeCampbell]

Criticism is always read as "hating" or thinking something "suck" rather than simply pointing out flaws, weak points, etc.

Someone, I'm thinking Bix, said it best: One thing a lot of people online don't get is that you can criticise something, a lot, and still like it.

[goodhelmet]

I think the problem is (and I get along with jdw) that sometimes you are known for only pointing out the flaws of a wrestler ad nauseum but you have to look long and hard to find praise.

[S.L.L.]

I think the problem is (and I get along with jdw) that sometimes you are known for only pointing out the flaws of a wrestler ad nauseum but you have to look long and hard to find praise.

In John's defense, his "hate" of Flair always seemed situational. When people are going way, way overboard in their praise of Flair, only natural that he's going to focus on the flaws.

[jdw]

I think the problem is (and I get along with jdw) that sometimes you are known for only pointing out the flaws of a wrestler ad nauseum but you have to look long and hard to find praise.

I think in the case of Flair, most of the praise that I could give is the obvious - it's stuff that people have praised for years. I try instead to distill it into ways that people have perhaps not thought about:

 

* Ric liked to Keep Things Moving Along, i.e. he Had Stuff To Do.

 

Beyond laying down the usual simplistic themes (Ric as a stooging, bitching, cheating heel opposite a better, stronger, more talented face), Ric tended not to sustain storylines in matches. They were little more than segments of stuff to do, that once done were tossed to move onto something else. In a way, a spot-bu style of work. Ric had spots and segments to get to, so time to move along.

 

People have issues with this since they think of spots in terms of spot monkey, Kanyon style work, or Chris Daniels... or pick your wrestler of choice. What can I say... if you watch Ric's matches and look beyond that basic pair of themes mentioned above, the overwhelming number of his matches don't sustain other storylines, and instead just keep things moving along.

 

* That *is* an effective way to work a match

 

There are lots of ways to work a match effectively. Hogan was one of the most effective workers of all time. Jumbo was effective. Race was effective. Destroyer was effective. Liger was effective. Someone like Bix could walk through why Lawler was an extremely effective worker.

 

Ric was an extremely effective worker. He filled matches with lots of "stuff" and "spots" that popped the crowd. For a good amount of his career, it also would get fans to come back and buy tickets again. People thought his matches were exiting. Faces came out of them looking strong. Etc.

 

Those to me are important ways to look at Ric.

 

Saying that Ric was a great bumper is stating the obvious. Everyone knows it. Saying he made faces look strong and sold his ass off for them is stating the obvious.

 

Saying that he was a master of psych is something that I don't agree with, so I'll point out where his psych is off (blowing off in-match storylines) and instead that he decided it was time to move along to the next batch of spots. It "worked" usually because the fans enjoyed the next set of spots. But skip telling me that Flair sold the knee great because he'll ignore it in two minutes because he Has Stuff To Get To.

 

That's Ric.

 

For other wrestlers, I'll go out of my way to sign their praises because it might be something that I believe people are missing. If you go back and look at the WWF 80s thread, you'll see me putting over the Steamboat-Santana vs. Valentine-Beffcake matches because the workers largely nail the basic structures of tag-style work. It holds up as a pretty strong contrast to what could be called typical WWF Tag Style of the 80s, which even limits quality teams when forced into it. It's something that I see as more worthwhile of expanding volume on these days than joining the decades old chorus that Ric is a great bumper.

 

In the end, I don't think it's really that hard to find me being positive. I tend to think people would rather pitch the positives overboard and hang onto the criticism. It usually is easier, and no doubt my comments over the years makes it easier. But I think at times it's missing the forest for the trees.

 

 

John

[Bix]

The WWF lies by omission gets people to go see the first Wrestlemania: I got some '85 WONs and some of the stuff that they pulled back then is amazingly carny. In markets where there was only CCTV location, the show was promoted using vague terms as if it was occurring live in that location, with no mention of CCTV. In addition to this, at least one location had a single 44 inch screen in the middle of a 10,000 seat arena.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

Don't blame Hogan completely for the "First Nitro at Mall Of America" stunt...

 

Bischoff has a history of doing stupid shit like that that pre-dates the first Nitro.

 

 

 

They did Bash At The Beach 1995 at Venice Beach, CA, with no gate.

 

They did Hog Wild / Road Wild at Sturgis, SD, for 4 years with no gate.

 

 

The former was Hogan's gimmick home town, while the latter was done to coincide with the bike rally that the motorcycle-enthusiast Bischoff wanted to be a part of.

 

 

It wouldn't surprise me that the Nitro at Mall Of America was Bischoff's idea because it was near his hometown of Minneapolis and was known for being the biggest mall in the world at the time.

I was reading the Observer's four-part review of the Bischoff book and Dave says that Zane Bresloff was the one who came up with the idea of all WCW's non-traditional venue shows (Sturgis, Mall of America, Spring Break, Huntington Beach).

[Guest Hack]

It also didn't hurt that the Mall had Hulk Hogan's Pastamania.

[Bix]

In 1995 Rob Feinstein paid Victor Quinones for the rights to sell copies of IWA Japan videos that Quinones didn't own the rights to.

 

A year or two later, he paid Dusty Rhodes for the rights to sell classic CWF videos that Dusty didn't own the rights to (at least RF got some master tapes and Dusty shooting wraparounds as part of this deal).

 

Now after this fine con was dormant for a decade, in 2008, Highspots is paying Cory Maclin for the rights to old Memphis footage that he doesn't own the rights to.

[broke]

Let's keep this one going!

 

Bill Watts Cons Jim Crockett

 

The UWF is going under. Bill Watts wants to get out of the biz and has Jim Ross tell JCP that McMahon is close to buying the UWF. Crockett panics and gives Watts a Million Dollars. Crockett inherits an expensive Dallas office, and procedes to blow a potential UWF invasion.

[Cox]

If Jim Crockett was conned by Bill Watts, he sure got him back good by not paying him $3 million of the $4 million he owed Watts. A good con would have seen Watts get all of that money.

[Log]

Not that this is all that big, but funny nonetheless...

 

Dear Great Fans

 

I am in desperate need of help and have turn to you to help. I have lost my wrestling gear, besides my mask, thank the wrestling god for that. I have spent so much money on getting new wrestling gear and my funds have run out. All I need now is wrestling boots. If any of the great fans from wrestling can donate money to get new ones, that be greatly appreciated and will be rewarded as soon as I get back on my feet. Email me for a pay pal email address.

 

Thanks

Peace, love, and Viva la Lucha Libre

Lince Dorado

Got this from Chikarafans. I guess someone actually sent him money.

[Bix]

http://www.jobsinwrestling.com/

[kjh]

Yes, for just under $300 you too could be given the privilege of working multiple jobs in the wrestling industry for free! What's particularly funny is that while perpetrating such an obvious con, they are shamelessly putting over their ethical business principles and many people over at the UKFF are falling for it.

[rovert]

Yes, for just under $300 you too could be given the privilege of working multiple jobs in the wrestling industry for free! What's particularly funny is that while perpetrating such an obvious con, they are shamelessly putting over their ethical business principles and many people over at the UKFF are falling for it.

Obvious con?

 

We also advise you to buy the book “Alex Shane’s Guide to Pro Wrestling – Volume One’. This book has a special chapter for people wanting to get into the business but not as wrestlers, along with ten other chapters that will teach you the vital in workings of the wrestling business. The book also contains wrestling’s first-ever printed directory of everything you need from wrestling boots to business addresses of the world’s top promotions. If you want to go into this with your eyes open as much as possible then buying this book is the most sensible £12.99 you can spend. To buy the book, click here.

[MikeCampbell]

Tom Zenk cons Verne Gagne into hiring and helping to further train him

 

I heard this while I was at the gym listening to a Zenk episode of WOL:

 

Zenk was playing phone tag with Verne about coming into the AWA. Knowing that Gary "Juice" Derusha had just left the AWA for the WWF, Zenk calls the office and tells them he's returning a message "from a guy named Juice" and asked the secretary if that was the AWA "or the other guys." She puts him on hold and comes back five minutes later and tells him that Verne said to be at his place first thing Monday morning to start working out with Brad Reingans.

[Guest Kenta Batista]

ECW SMARTENED PEOPLE UP:THE BIRTH OF THE SMARK

 

I remember watching this on Raw on night when DX was in the ring and I didn't know what it was and really didn't care. Later the event was explained to me by a friend and my response as the time,as it still is now, was 'so what?'. This statement was made during my smark inception. I think this incident has been blown out of proportion by everyone and was only made a big deal by the back off, but obviously it wasn't THAT big of a deal (even though WWE tries to make it seem as a big 'the walls come down' on kayfabe moment) as nothing happened to Michaels(title or no title) and HHH went on to become a 13 time champion.

 

Someone posted something elsewhere on this board about a poll being done asking wrestling fans if wrestling was real or fake. Ole Anderson said something like 1% would say its real. The results came back and something like 96-98% said wrestling was fake. The people KNEW they were watching a show. 1992 WWF shows us the fans were getting smarter as Hogan (and his heel antics being disguised as babyface tatics) where getting booed. I in a Kevin Nash shoot interview he discusses how prior to the internet and 1995 (I will get to this later) the crowd got smart and were booing guys like Luger and cheering the work horses.

 

1994-1995 is usually the time frame a lot of people point to for the creation of the modern day smark. 06/03/94 happening and guys like Benoit,Eddie Guerrero,Mysterio,Psicosis,Malenko giving a visual definition to the term WORKRATE. I would say this and the tape trading that was going on around this time and the heavy pimping of matches not seen by the mainstream public as ***** matches to garner attention...has lead us to where we are today.

 

If I HAVE to point to where I think fans got smart...or rather WHO smartened them up. I would say WCW. WCW was always doing shows in Japan in the early 90's. Big Shows. It was common to see Muta and some others on WCW TV. NJPW/WCW relationship was no secret and it was being done on the mainstages around the world, not in a bingo hall. I believe it was this NJPW/WCW events and matches that had some wanting to find out more about Muta and Lyger and others.

 

WCW, despite having Robocop, The Black Scorpion,David as World Champion, and holding various wrestling events in places that were meant to NOT DRAW A PROFIT, WCW smartened up fans.

[Resident Evil]

ECW SMARTENED PEOPLE UP:THE BIRTH OF THE SMARK

 

I remember watching this on Raw on night when DX was in the ring and I didn't know what it was and really didn't care. Later the event was explained to me by a friend and my response as the time,as it still is now, was 'so what?'. This statement was made during my smark inception. I think this incident has been blown out of proportion by everyone and was only made a big deal by the back off, but obviously it wasn't THAT big of a deal (even though WWE tries to make it seem as a big 'the walls come down' on kayfabe moment) as nothing happened to Michaels(title or no title) and HHH went on to become a 13 time champion.

 

Someone posted something elsewhere on this board about a poll being done asking wrestling fans if wrestling was real or fake. Ole Anderson said something like 1% would say its real. The results came back and something like 96-98% said wrestling was fake. The people KNEW they were watching a show. 1992 WWF shows us the fans were getting smarter as Hogan (and his heel antics being disguised as babyface tatics) where getting booed. I in a Kevin Nash shoot interview he discusses how prior to the internet and 1995 (I will get to this later) the crowd got smart and were booing guys like Luger and cheering the work horses.

 

1994-1995 is usually the time frame a lot of people point to for the creation of the modern day smark. 06/03/94 happening and guys like Benoit,Eddie Guerrero,Mysterio,Psicosis,Malenko giving a visual definition to the term WORKRATE. I would say this and the tape trading that was going on around this time and the heavy pimping of matches not seen by the mainstream public as ***** matches to garner attention...has lead us to where we are today.

 

If I HAVE to point to where I think fans got smart...or rather WHO smartened them up. I would say WCW. WCW was always doing shows in Japan in the early 90's. Big Shows. It was common to see Muta and some others on WCW TV. NJPW/WCW relationship was no secret and it was being done on the mainstages around the world, not in a bingo hall. I believe it was this NJPW/WCW events and matches that had some wanting to find out more about Muta and Lyger and others.

 

WCW, despite having Robocop, The Black Scorpion,David as World Champion, and holding various wrestling events in places that were meant to NOT DRAW A PROFIT, WCW smartened up fans.

"I remember watching this on Raw on night"

 

Watching what? The night that the Clique had the big hug? The night WWF "tore down kayfabe"?

 

 

I agree with almost everyhing that is written here. WCW smartened up fans

[kjh]

Where we are today? You'll have to explain the link from "06/03/94 happening and guys like Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Mysterio, Psicosis, Malenko giving a visual definition to the term WORKRATE" to today's top WWE stars of Cena, Batista, Orton and Hunter.

[Indikator]

The ECW fans weren't that different from W*ING fans or AJPW fans who always had fun with mock cheering the old/incompetent guys in the comedy matches. Just remember DiBiase vs Warrior from the Tokyo Dome.

 

When people discuss the fakery I always say that in the 19th century seemingly every newspaper match report wondered if the contest was square. In the early 20th century that stopped completely so everybody assumed it was staged.

[Ditch]

Of course a big reason for worked older matches was that EVERY SINGLE ONE was driven by gambling. The more money a sport generates, ah, legitimately (tickets, media rights, merchandise) the less sway gambling has. MMA got its start in the modern era of pay-per-view, so even though there are works and questionable outcomes (especially in the '90s), there's a big financial incentive for promotions to have legit outcomes and for fighters to get ahead honestly. Compare to the 1800s when it would be impossible to make a living on ticket sales alone. That said boxing would have the same excuse, and that's been around the entire time and now has far more respect than pro wrestling despite plenty of shady incidents in its past. Boxing was never as heavily worked as wrestling... but then it's harder to work getting punched in the face a dozen times compared to doing grappling.

 

MMA is probably what wrestling would have become had it not gone all-work.

[Guest Kenta Batista]

I remember watching this on Raw on night"

 

Watching what? The night that the Clique had the big hug? The night WWF "tore down kayfabe"?

In 1997, DX was in the ring doing a promo and then THE FOOTAGE started playing on the Raw screen. That was what I remember watching. Not the actual MSG stuff going down as it happened, but DX playing footage of it on Raw and making comments about it.

 

Where we are today? You'll have to explain the link from "06/03/94 happening and guys like Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Mysterio, Psicosis, Malenko giving a visual definition to the term WORKRATE" to today's top WWE stars of Cena, Batista, Orton and Hunter.

Where 'we' are today, as far as wrestling fans who have smartened up, is not accepting guys like Masters,Luger,Batista, and their poor work being. I think fans always had an idea of what an amazing wrestling match should be rather then the WWF roid monsters and in 1994-1995 it was available to the mainstream public in the united states. When I was 8 I knew I didn't enjoy Hogan matches and I loved seeing guys like Savage,Steamboat,The Rockers, Koko B Ware, and Tito Santana and always thought they should be in the mainevents of the shows and should be champions. Because these guys were working the 'WWE style" they didn't break out the stuff 1994-1997 ECW did that later became so heavily pimped.

 

06/03/04 kicked the smark stuff into overdrive, I believe, as it provided a template for what classic wrestling and GOOD WRESTLING can be. It made wrestling into an art form. But I honestly believe if WCW hadn't done its Japan shows and had the NJPW relationship then a lot of fans would have never come to discover 6/03/94 and amazing overseas workers, perhaps leading to Heyman never really booking them as there would essentially be no real buzz.

[sek69]

90% of the people who trumpet 6/3/94 as the day the Lord himself smiled upon the wrestling world have no idea why they think that way other than someone told them it was a Momentous Event for wrestling. That match is nothing more than "perfectly acceptable wrestling" ( to quote a Scooter-ism) unless you understand the context of why these guys are facing each other and why it's a big deal.

 

I think because of that lack of context, it created the mindset that straight wrestling is the end-all instead of making money. Despite the fact that there's no evidence whatsoever that classic wrestling draws money in the US, there's still people today who demand WWE go to a straight 70s wrestling style since that's the style that they are convinced will bring wrestling to the top of the ladder.

 

Of course when ROH did that, there was much outrage, but that's smarks for you.