Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?

[KawadaSmile]

25 minutes ago, Coffey said:

I still use pro wrestling as escapism from real life. I still frequent PWO because I feel like I've been attached to wrestling forums, in one fashion or another, for over 25-years now & it's hard to give up. I still enjoy talking about wrestling & WWE, but coming on here anymore, is just kind of depressing. I don't know what I get from here anymore other than guilt from being a fan. I don't need to constantly be reminded of how billion dollar companies are full of real life pieces of shit. So is Walmart. So is Amazon. So is Apple. So is Chic-fil-A. Like, I get it. I can't abstain & boycott every company in the United States. I didn't vote for Donald Trump. I didn't vote for a single Republican. It's not my fault WWE sucks or our country is going to shit. It doesn't need to be said in every reply in every thread.

I would rather just go on Threads or Bluesky & actually talk about the shows with people that want to talk about the shows. Not constantly be beaten over the head with how the sky is falling & I'm a terrible person if I watch the Royal Rumble, like I some how condone that awful shit that goes down outside of the TV show. There's not even a lot of active people here anymore, so blocking one of the few remaining people gets me nowhere. I work a lot. My body hurts a lot. I'm surrounded by people in all walks of life that are the living embodiment of doom-scrolling. I don't need more of that shit during my leisure time.

Keep on watching, bubba. A huge amount of things we consume are made by absolute scumbags - even very empathetic, beautifully written things, like Sandman. You know what are your stances and principles, as well as what piece of entertainment resonate with you more.

[The Thread Killer]

30 minutes ago, Coffey said:

I still use pro wrestling as escapism from real life. I still frequent PWO because I feel like I've been attached to wrestling forums, in one fashion or another, for over 25-years now & it's hard to give up. I still enjoy talking about wrestling & WWE, but coming on here anymore, is just kind of depressing. I don't know what I get from here anymore other than guilt from being a fan. I don't need to constantly be reminded of how billion dollar companies are full of real life pieces of shit. So is Walmart. So is Amazon. So is Apple. So is Chic-fil-A. Like, I get it. I can't abstain & boycott every company in the United States. I didn't vote for Donald Trump. I didn't vote for a single Republican. It's not my fault WWE sucks or our country is going to shit. It doesn't need to be said in every reply in every thread.

I would rather just go on Threads or Bluesky & actually talk about the shows with people that want to talk about the shows. Not constantly be beaten over the head with how the sky is falling & I'm a terrible person if I watch the Royal Rumble, like I some how condone that awful shit that goes down outside of the TV show. There's not even a lot of active people here anymore, so blocking one of the few remaining people gets me nowhere. I work a lot. My body hurts a lot. I'm surrounded by people in all walks of life that are the living embodiment of doom-scrolling. I don't need more of that shit during my leisure time.

I totally get what you are saying. I have been a member of this forum for 20 years, as hard as it is to even wrap my head around that. I was a member here when it was “New Millennium Blues” before it even morphed into PWO.  I think you have been around just as long as I have. Hell, there are a few members here who I knew from Messageboards even before that, back in 1999 or so.

I distinctly remember that one of the main ideas around the founding of this forum was that discussion of politics was pretty much forbidden. If I’m not wrong, that’s the actual reason it was named Pro Wrestling Only. Obviously, we have gotten pretty far away from that, especially lately. And I agree with you, it has gotten really depressing. One of the main reasons I come here is to get away from politics, not to discuss them more.

Sadly, @Loss and @goodhelmet seem to be long gone from here, so there are no administrators around anymore to actually enforce the rule about no discussion of politics. It would be nice if at our age, we didn’t need somebody to moderate around here, but in some cases, it seems like we do. 

I don’t like AEW. I did, but then they made a bunch of decisions I didn’t agree with, and I stopped watching the product because I stopped enjoying it. I will occasionally drop a snide comment in the AEW thread here at PWO, but I certainly don’t do it continuously because I have no desire to ruin the discussion of the AEW product for the people that do actually enjoy it. I think that once you have clearly made your point about something, it’s probably best to just let it go and not beat the horse to death. But that seems to be where we are around here. 

I totally get where you are coming from, @Coffey and I am strongly tempted at times to stop posting here too. PWO has basically turned into a ghost town, a shadow of what it used to be. A lot of that is just due to the fact that people tend to use Social Media, Reddit and Discord to interact and Messageboards have become obsolete. But there are other reasons why this place is rapidly dying…and it sucks. I hate to see this place wither away after all this time, but if we keep losing members like you… it’s only a matter of time.

[El-P]

Seriously now. 90% of the pro-wrestling discourse online is about how awesome WWE is and how great and hot it is right now. This one thread has pretty much *always* been about the bad stuff about WWE (likewise the AEW thread of the same name), be it business or otherwise. So yeah, complaining about shitting on WWE in a thread that was about shitting on WWE is kinda ridiculous.

Not that it matters anyway. I've not been around that much the past two years of so (for diverse reasons), really, and on my way to be less and less around since my overall interest in the current scene has been sinking, as discussed elsewhere. And yes, my interests have leaned way too much into political and sociogical aspects of *every* (not just pro-wrestling) cultural (or pop) products I deal with in the last few years, which I'm guessing is not a good fit at all here.

Forums culture is pretty much dead. It was (mostly) fun while it lasted. 

[El-P]

(oh, and yeah, the Good Brothers getting hired back in WWE was money stealing even Hall & Nash could never have dreamed of. I would die laughing if they get their way back in current AEW)

[flyonthewall2983]

3 hours ago, El-P said:

This one thread has pretty much *always* been about the bad stuff about WWE (likewise the AEW thread of the same name), be it business or otherwise.

Except I wouldn’t call AEW an empire at all

[Blehschmidt]

Interesting that they've released Isla Dawn without releasing Alba Fyre. 

 

[El-P]

2 hours ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

Except I wouldn’t call AEW an empire at all

Not quite. Thankfully too. I'd rather have them be a smaller promotion for hardcores with a more intimate, indie-loving vibes rather than some (REDACTED - REDACTED - REDACTED).

(damnit !)

[strobogo]

I kind of agree with it sucks to come here and have to constantly read about US politics stuff, but living in the US, every single human that isn't a billionaire should be furious 24/7. And it just happens that there is one specific company that is the hottest company in the world and biggest company to ever exist that has quite direct and explicit connections to the thing that should be making everyone in the US furious 24/7. Pretty fucking hard to avoid. 

Can't ignore it or put your head in the sand to enjoy your hobbies in a time like this, when there is an extreme amount of documented evidence of what governments trying to set up what the US appears to be trying to set up does just over the past 100 years, not even including history before that. "I just wanna enjoy my wrassles" is gonna be some bullshit for a while when the top company is directly connected to Trump and the current admin and also KSA (to the point of having Riyadh season logos on the mat for Raw).

Not that I think WWE is going to do a full MAGA agenda anytime soon, but it is something that they erased Hogan for a few years but never removed Trump from the HOF website or footage even after J6.

[The Thread Killer]

14 hours ago, Blehschmidt said:

Interesting that they've released Isla Dawn without releasing Alba Fyre. 

 

I only saw them work as a team once or twice and I can’t honestly say that they made much of an impression one way or another. Is Alba Fyre noticeably better than Dawn was?

[Badlittlekitten]

It really is a shame that most of the prominent posters on here have decided to migrate to twitter of all places. Hopefully things pick up a bit as GWE 2026 gets closer. Admittedly I'm part of the problem, as I'm watching the footage and still reading this site but never bother to post. I guess I'm just waiting for some debates to heat up.

[Blehschmidt]

7 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

I only saw them work as a team once or twice and I can’t honestly say that they made much of an impression one way or another. Is Alba Fyre noticeably better than Dawn was?

Alba is a better worker, Dawn has a better look. Probably call it a draw when it comes to promo skills. Just kinda surprised they let one go and not the other.

 

Also, Elektra Lopez was apparently cut too.

[The Thread Killer]

I have no idea if this is true or not, but I read somewhere online today that between the new “ID” program, NIL and NXT, that WWE have over 50 women in their developmental system. It sounds like an insanely high number, but I guess it could be true. If it is true, it’s a small wonder they are starting to release some talents to make room.

[sek69]

1 hour ago, The Thread Killer said:

I have no idea if this is true or not, but I read somewhere online today that between the new “ID” program, NIL and NXT, that WWE have over 50 women in their developmental system. It sounds like an insanely high number, but I guess it could be true. If it is true, it’s a small wonder they are starting to release some talents to make room.

If its not 50, it's most likely not too far off. They have tons of folks at the PC who have either never been on TV or nothing more than Level Up type shows.

[NotJayTabb]

15 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

I only saw them work as a team once or twice and I can’t honestly say that they made much of an impression one way or another. Is Alba Fyre noticeably better than Dawn was?

Fyre is a considerably better worker than Dawn, and I think WWE knows it too. Fyre was a bit of an indy darling in the UK, she's the one who was given the longest NXT UK women's title reign, and when she was brought over to work a Wargames match for NXT, it was treated like a big deal. Being half of a spooky tag team who never did anything spooky was a poor fit for her, I'm guessing they've got different plans for her going forward (they'll probably release her now I've said all this).

[The Thread Killer]

Maybe these WWE releases were done to make room for new or returning faces? I keep seeing reports that Roxanne Pérez is due for her long awaited call up.

Add to that the speculation about Josh Alexander being available as of February 15.

Plus…Malakai Black, Miro and Ricky Starks have all been removed from the AEW roster page, apparently. Some fairly reliable sources are actually reporting that all three have been released and are free and clear now. I’m not sure how reliable these reports are, but if they have been taken off the AEW roster page that’s a pretty good sign you will not be seeing them again on AEW TV.

I read somewhere that Fenix gave an interview in Mexico recently where he basically implied that he still has quite a lot of time left on his AEW contract due to the injury extension. He even intimated that he would be willing to go back to AEW and work out the rest of his contract, but we all know how likely that is. I can’t see him not wanting to join his brother in WWE once his contract is up, so I highly doubt Tony Khan will put him back on TV.

[C.S.]

2 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

He even intimated that he would be willing to go back to AEW and work out the rest of his contract, but we all know how likely that is.

It's bizarre to me that Tony Khan just keeps people at home for a year or more instead of at least using them to get others over.  

AEW isn't big enough anymore and doesn't have enough viewers at this point to "de-value" anyone by taking them off TV, so TK may as well get some benefit out of wrestlers he's already paying anyway.

But, hey, it's his money.

[The Thread Killer]

1 hour ago, C.S. said:

But, hey, it's his money.

Or maybe it’s his Dad’s money. I saw on the news last week that Shad Khan showed up to the Super Bowl in a 360 Million Dollar yacht. Daaammmnnn. That family definitely has “Fuck You” money.

[EnviousStupid]

Let Billionaire Tony waste money on guys sitting at home earning the easiest paycheck of their careers.

[sek69]

7 hours ago, C.S. said:

It's bizarre to me that Tony Khan just keeps people at home for a year or more instead of at least using them to get others over.  

AEW isn't big enough anymore and doesn't have enough viewers at this point to "de-value" anyone by taking them off TV, so TK may as well get some benefit out of wrestlers he's already paying anyway.

But, hey, it's his money.

Luchadores, especially ones who are top guys, know all the tricks to malicious compliance the promoters they want to get away from. Not that I've seen anything specific to Fenix to suggest he'd do that, but they have an entirely different view on "professionalism" in Mexico.  There's really nothing stopping someone like Fenix from basically telling Tony to GFY, since worst case scenario he could go back to AAA and be a top guy there in the unlikely case WWE would suddenly not be interested in him.

(not to mention there were those ominous sounding tweets from Fenix heavily suggesting some fuckery went down behind the scenes with AEW)

[El-P]

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

(not to mention there were those ominous sounding tweets from Fenix heavily suggesting some fuckery went down behind the scenes with AEW)

Luchablog talked about it before. Fénix on X be like Fénix on X. People deep into lucha made nothing out of it because they know the guy's habits.

8 hours ago, C.S. said:

It's bizarre to me that Tony Khan just keeps people at home for a year or more instead of at least using them to get others over.  

It takes them to *want* to put over people. Miro obviously did not. Malakai obviously did not (his single loss record in AEW is a grand 3 I believe, and that's to Cody and Copeland or something). Ricky Starks, who the hell knows, but honestly I would not be surprised that was the same thing as soon as the guy departed to WWE in his head.

[sek69]

I hardly recall Malakai even having that many singles matches, he was almost always in trios or teaming wit Brody King.

The whole Ricky Starks thing is weird, the only thing that makes sense to me is that they seem to be wanting to cut ties with anyone who was friends with Cody....except of course MJF who started a program with Dustin of all people.

[El-P]

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

The whole Ricky Starks thing is weird, the only thing that makes sense to me is that they seem to be wanting to cut ties with anyone who was friends with Cody....except of course MJF who started a program with Dustin of all people.

Plenty of people are friends with Cody. Hell, they hired QT Marshall back and gave him the Youtuber. Ricky Starks is a clear case of the guy being obvious about wanting to go to WWE as soon as his contract was gonna end. There was this story of him shutting down a program with Big Bill (basically to push Bill as a babyface, which is coming soon). After that point, when you don't want to do business and make it obvious you're a goner, the writing was on the wall. 

[DMJ]

This probably isn't the right thread for it, but what's crazy to me about Starks is just how "pick me" its all coming across. Like, dude, you are setting up yourself like Sting begging to be Ric Flair's tag partner or something. I know things are different because Vince isn't in charge anymore, but I don't see Triple H feeling much differently about Starks than his father-in-law - specifically that Starks hasn't actually accomplished all that much, his gimmick isn't super unique, he has charisma but so do lots of people, he's a generous 6'0'' at most, and, most importantly, he burned his AEW bridge and now that WWE and TNA are working together, they're the only other game in town. He's played the opposite of "hard to get." 

They are going to lowball him and then put him on NXT, which is probably the right thing for his growth, but certainly isn't the "slam dunk" career-wise I think he should've been working towards. From there, I don't think its guaranteed that he's going to get a big push or anything. I think they already "made a point" with Ethan Page and they don't need to re-make it with Starks.  

But, personally, if I were him, I'd see if TNA were interested in a shorter term deal. To me, Starks still has to prove he can be a top-top guy in a much smaller pool before I see him as even close to a big deal in a company like the WWE. 

[The Thread Killer]

If you are a talent and you make it crystal clear to the boss that no matter what they say or do, you are leaving once your contract is up, then I totally get them taking you off television and not giving you any more exposure.

Honestly, that is exactly what FTR did in WWE. Vince offered them what was apparently an extremely lucrative contract to get them to avoid jumping to AEW, but they knew that they were always going to be treated as an afterthought, so they refused to sign and he pulled them off TV and made them wait out their contracts. They were not even allowed to work house shows (which were still a thing back then) for their last 90 days in WWE.

I guess all of the guys mentioned above, Malakai, Miro, Starks and Fenix made it clear to Tony that they were not going to be sticking around in AEW, regardless of how much money they were offered. I think all four guys have a reputation to varying degrees of refusing to do jobs as well, so maybe all of them sitting at home waiting out their contracts was inevitable. On one hand it seems weird that Tony Khan should pay them huge money to just sit there for over a year and do nothing with them, but on the other hand, I can see why he didn’t just want to hand them over to the competition on a silver platter either.

[The Thread Killer]

I have to be honest, when I first saw him in Billy Corgan’s NWA, I thought Ricky Starks was great. He showed up in AEW, and in my opinion every time he got a chance to shine, he always made the most of the opportunity. He had some great matches and cut some great promos. 

But I do not disagree with people that think the ceiling for Ricky Starks is definitely going to be the IC/US Title level at best. I see him as probably being somewhat like an LA Knight or even Kevin Owens at best. An upper midcard guy who you can slot into the occasional Main Event on TV or on one of the less high profile PLE’s, but he’s never going to be “the guy.” There is just too much established Main Event talent already in WWE, and too many guys who are on the verge of breaking through (Breakker, Fatu) for him to do that.

And I do totally agree that it won’t help him much that he looks and acts like The Rock.

Who knows…maybe AJ Styles or Randy Orton will teach him their secret and he will learn how to “bulk up” (wink wink.) Maybe they will give him a different name or a different gimmick and he will get that over, he certainly has the talent to do it.