WrestleMania 39

[Johnny Sorrow]

Just now, Johnny Sorrow said:

I don't know what anyone else thought about that show, and to be honest...I don't care That was a great show. We all had a fantastic time here. My family and the kids were going nuts, and so was I. 

 

[Jmare007]

Not that long ago Kevin Owens was thinking about staying in WWE or going with his friends to AEW. He stayed and got two consecutive Wrestlemania main events. In one he had a match most people thought would never happen against one of his idols in Stone GOAT and this year he gets to be with his brother in wrestling and be part of another really special moment.

Safe to say dude made the best decision in his professional life.

[sek69]

In what has to be a first (or at least first in a long time), all the finishes on NXT and Mania made sense and were done pretty well. The most out of left field one was probably Indi winning the women's title but even that led to a great moment of the family reuniting after the Gargano match. 

[Microstatistics]

Just came back from WM Night 1. It was a fun experience and a very good (half) show that exceeded my expectations since it seemed like Night 2 had all the strong match-ups. 

Cena vs. Theory - Passable opener, Theory's heel stuff was decent and Cena, perhaps unsurprisingly, drew some of the biggest reactions of the night. **1/4

Men's Fatal Four Tag - Solid with some memorable spots. **3/4

Rollins vs. Logan Paul - This might have been the MOTN. The screens were down for the initial portion, which distracted the crowd and drew a "Fix the Screens" chant but the work was really good. The rib and hand stuff was neat. LP is such a natural and Rollins played the veteran role effectively. ***1/2

Damage CTRL vs. Becky/Trish/Lita - Similar to the men's tag. **3/4

Rey vs. Dominik - The work wasn't exactly great and there were clear instances of awkwardness from Dom. But as a whole package, from the entrances to the post-match, this was an absolute blast with maybe the greatest crowd engagement of the night. ***

Ripley vs. Charlotte -  This started off slowly and I was afraid it was gonna be dull. But they quickly put it together and I think this was the right type of match to do a ton of near falls in especially since they had the crowd biting. I still think people are overrating it, maybe because of the suspense over whether they would actually pull the trigger on Rhea but this was pretty good nonetheless ***1/4

McAfee vs. Miz - Filler. Should have used it to stretch my legs.

Zayn/Owens vs. Usos - Very good main event even if I found some of the selling wonky (some big spots were recovered from too quickly, while other minor ones were oversold to facilitate a few of the isolated segments). Still, the action and storytelling elements were on point. ***1/2

[Jimmy Redman]

Before we get to tomorrow I want to say how much Rhea vs. Charlotte fucking BANGED. Even from what little I know this match was ice cold going in and I was not expecting Big Match Charlotte in 2023, and boy was I fucking wrong.

Of all things it was actually a super generous Charlotte performance, since the whole match was based around the idea that the giant Amazon dominant Queen Charlotte was up against someone who turned out to be bigger, stronger, badder, and ultimately better. Rhea was the one throwing Charlotte around on her fucking head. Charlotte was the one busting out things like a flying crossbody or Tornado DDT, uncharacteristically "underneath" moves for her. And Rhea was the one doing the big deadlift strength spots to counter her. Charlotte still towers over Rhea, the world's tallest 5'7", but they did everything to make Rhea tower over her in this match.

One moment really stuck out to me, and I may end up cross posting this in GWE because it speaks to something Charlotte is really good at and never gets enough credit for. I hate to put it this way, but it's Acting. There was a moment late in the match, just before the finish (I'd have to rewatch it to remember exactly what spot it was) where Charlotte got some super ridiculous nearfall on Rhea and she kicked out. Charlotte sat there and started smiling.

Smiling.

Not laughing in disbelief, which is what wrestlers are usually trying to convey in that moment when they do that. "Oh my God I can't believe they kicked out of my finisher!" She was smiling. She was... impressed. Her face said many things, but the main one was, "Wow, I am actually going to lose this match." You could see in her face she knew she was done for, that nothing was ever going to keep Rhea down, and she couldn't even be mad about it because Rhea was so fucking impressive and she was going to be defeated by someone better than her, by fate itself.

Which contrasts so beautifully with the character work Charlotte usually does in the late stage of a match. She had a brilliant knack of showing desperation late in a match, particularly as a heel. Early on it was the point at which she'd cry out for Ric Flair ("Daaaaad!") and he'd start interfering. Then it was just her experiencing her own despair and having nobody to turn to, having to fight on in her desperation, find another big bomb. Here she actually felt something beyond all that. It was fate, it was acceptance. This wasn't even about her. It was Rhea's redemption, she was just there to let it happen. And all she could do was smile.

People will latch onto the shot of her smiling on the floor while Rhea held the title up in the ring, but I think the smile she gave her right before the finish was a hundred times more powerful.

Also, Charlotte being spiked on her fucking head a bunch of times was sickkkkkk and insane. Awesome match.

[Robert S]

I am sure the production guy who forgot to switch off the ring-post microphone after the Sami-Jey dialog got an earful. That (we resulted in the Owens-Jimmy(?) spot calling dialog close to the end being as loud as the announcers) was an untypical screw-up for the WWE production team.

And @EricR comparison between Charlotte and early 2000s Takayama is spot-on.

[Robert S]

14 hours ago, Embrodak said:

Remember when people were worried that Sami being against anybody but Roman was a betrayal

At the very least, they had to work very hard to get the crowd into the match. Probably they could have gotten close to the same crowd reaction without the whole "Sami Uso" storyline doing mostly the same match (minus the HBK-style in-ring dialogs), i.e. they got much less out of probably their hottest storyline in years than they could have. Not saying that the Mania main event should have been Sami defeating Roman for the gold, but this was also not the way to go.

[Robert S]

Also: fuck all those commercials. I am paying for the service (twice as much as the US people) and somewhat I am still the product?

[KawadaSmile]

The greatest of this generation. I will miss his title reign so much.

[sek69]

Roman basically "I wish a motherfucker would"-ing the whole locker room is good shit pal

[Robert S]

Almost forgot to say: I planned to watch at least parts of the Saturday part of Mania live. The show started at 2 AM my local time. To stay awake, I bought a bag of peanut snacks (150 g - about 5 oz; those things don't really seem to exist in the US, Wikipedia calls them "Bamba" - cheese puffs but with peanuts instead of cheese) and a bottle of some Sprite-like soda (1.5 l). I should note that nowadays I drink maybe two glasses of soda per month and 2-3 bags of snacks a year (and than never a full bag at once). The result was that my body forced me to tap out at 2:30 AM - I barely made it through the Cena match. Another sign that I am getting old... At least I did not make the mistake to drink Coke instead of Sprite, this way my body had not to deal with the caffeine in addition to the fat and the sugar.

[sek69]

I would imagine today must be a special occasion then with the Gunther Meatslap Extravaganza on deck

[NintendoLogic]

Charlotte/Rhea did nothing for me live because I was struggling to keep my eyes open by that point and just wanted the match to end (I ended up calling it a night once it did). When I woke up today and saw the rave reviews it was getting, I decided to watch it again with a fresh set of eyes. I thought it was a good physical match with plenty of cool moments (I especially dug the repeated struggle over the figure-four), but it never connected with me on a deeper level because there was no real hook beyond the two of them clobbering each other. Not to mention all the tired WWE big match tropes (mid-match trash talk, shocked face after a kickout) that will never not annoy me. By the way, it looked like Rhea was wearing an Apple Watch under her wrist tape, which I found puzzling. Did she have somewhere else she needed to be?

The tag title match, on the other hand, blew me away. On initial viewing, I'd say it was probably the best American tag match of the century so far. The fact that the ref pretty much stopped enforcing the legal man rules about halfway through made it feel like a high-end Japanese tag match. In particular, the extended 2-on-1 beatdowns from the Usos felt Holy Demon Army-esque. And Sami's selling is always a treat. I could've done without all the posing and monologuing, though. Sami finishing Jey off with a barrage of helluva kicks is one of the few melodramatic WWE set pieces that I felt achieved what it set out to. MOTN and probably my MOTY to this point. I hope Sami/KO have an extended run with the belts because they have the potential to deliver an all-time great reign. Sami is the best FIP in the business right now, and Owens is a tremendous hot tag.

As my comments in the first paragraph indicated, these marathon PPVs are a struggle. With my current work/sleep schedule, staying up until midnight or later to watch a wrestling event is too much for me. I'll try to make it to the end tonight because I expect Roman/Cody to be truly special and want to experience it as it happens. In the future, though, I think I'll stick to cherry-picking after the fact.

[WingedEagle]

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/02/wwe-ufc-endeavor-deal.html

Quite the timing for this to leak.

[NintendoLogic]

18 minutes ago, WingedEagle said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/02/wwe-ufc-endeavor-deal.html

Quite the timing for this to leak.

I'm just thankful it isn't the Saudis.

[sek69]

Dana and Vince being corporate bros seems like something that was just meant to happen.

[The Man in Blak]

10 hours ago, Jimmy Redman said:

Of all things it was actually a super generous Charlotte performance, since the whole match was based around the idea that the giant Amazon dominant Queen Charlotte was up against someone who turned out to be bigger, stronger, badder, and ultimately better. Rhea was the one throwing Charlotte around on her fucking head. Charlotte was the one busting out things like a flying crossbody or Tornado DDT, uncharacteristically "underneath" moves for her. And Rhea was the one doing the big deadlift strength spots to counter her. Charlotte still towers over Rhea, the world's tallest 5'7", but they did everything to make Rhea tower over her in this match.

One moment really stuck out to me, and I may end up cross posting this in GWE because it speaks to something Charlotte is really good at and never gets enough credit for. I hate to put it this way, but it's Acting. There was a moment late in the match, just before the finish (I'd have to rewatch it to remember exactly what spot it was) where Charlotte got some super ridiculous nearfall on Rhea and she kicked out. Charlotte sat there and started smiling.

Smiling.

Not laughing in disbelief, which is what wrestlers are usually trying to convey in that moment when they do that. "Oh my God I can't believe they kicked out of my finisher!" She was smiling. She was... impressed. Her face said many things, but the main one was, "Wow, I am actually going to lose this match." You could see in her face she knew she was done for, that nothing was ever going to keep Rhea down, and she couldn't even be mad about it because Rhea was so fucking impressive and she was going to be defeated by someone better than her, by fate itself.

Which contrasts so beautifully with the character work Charlotte usually does in the late stage of a match. She had a brilliant knack of showing desperation late in a match, particularly as a heel. Early on it was the point at which she'd cry out for Ric Flair ("Daaaaad!") and he'd start interfering. Then it was just her experiencing her own despair and having nobody to turn to, having to fight on in her desperation, find another big bomb. Here she actually felt something beyond all that. It was fate, it was acceptance. This wasn't even about her. It was Rhea's redemption, she was just there to let it happen. And all she could do was smile.

People will latch onto the shot of her smiling on the floor while Rhea held the title up in the ring, but I think the smile she gave her right before the finish was a hundred times more powerful.

I think the match eventually got to the point and the dynamic you’re describing here, but it took 10+ minutes of a bog standard Charlotte match to get there. Before Rhea caught her on the top and accidentally (?) dumped her on her head with that first messed-up German, Charlotte was chopping, clotheslining, dialoguing and kipping up, all while spending plenty of time in control. Yeah, the DDT counter to the Riptide from a few minutes earlier looked badass, but it was basically a cutoff of a desperation finisher attempt, rather than Charlotte working from underneath.

The rest of the match after that first botched/awkward German definitely picked up from there and, with the benefit of a second watch of the match, the slow first half of the match helped lay the foundation for more physical intensity in the back half. But, on the first pass, it didn’t strike me as “generous” as much as it was meandering until they finally found something to justify kicking things into a new gear.

That said, your points on Charlotte’s acting are 100% correct, especially in contrast to Rhea’s goofy facial reactions to nearfalls. The way that Charlotte kinda no-sold the finish of the match to sit against the ring apron and smirk while Rhea celebrated was a little obnoxious, but I could see it being poignant if it *is* a true changing of the guard - we’ll have to see how post-Mania storytelling plays out. If we’re back here again with a Backlash rematch next month, it needs to pick up where this one left off.

[sek69]

If Charlotte didn't have the history she does, I could see her post match reaction just being one of "good job, ya got me".  It happens in real fights too, sometimes folks just know either it wasn't their day or their opponent had their number. 

[Strummer]

I guess this could be Hunter's last night on the job if the sale is announced tomorrow.

[WingedEagle]

26 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

I'm just thankful it isn't the Saudis.

I didn't see any people with insight comment on it, but what gave me pause about any potential Saudi deal is it would seem like most media companies wouldn't want to commit 9 figures to broadcast a Saudi enterprise.  Perhaps MBS wouldn't care and perhaps I'm dead wrong.  But that always seemed like a huge roadblock especially with sale negotiations taking place parallel to those for media rights.

[Jmare007]

27 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Dana and Vince being corporate bros seems like something that was just meant to happen.

And what a ticking clock of a PR nightmare either because of one of them getting into legal issues due to horrible behavior or one of them talking trash about the other company and starting a dumb internal fight.

[sek69]

4 minutes ago, WingedEagle said:

I didn't see any people with insight comment on it, but what gave me pause about any potential Saudi deal is it would seem like most media companies wouldn't want to commit 9 figures to broadcast a Saudi enterprise.  Perhaps MBS wouldn't care and perhaps I'm dead wrong.  But that always seemed like a huge roadblock especially with sale negotiations taking place parallel to those for media rights.

The only TV deal they could get for their LIV Golf tour was on like the CW or some shit that no one watches, so you're probably right. 

[El-P]

50 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Dana and Vince being corporate bros seems like something that was just meant to happen.

One "only" slapped his wife in public, the other most probably sexually assaulted/raped many women. Wonderful corporate conglomerate indeed. 

51 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

I'm just thankful it isn't the Saudis.

Yep. This would have been good for no one.

That being said, as long as Vince the Rapist and Saudi deals are in place, fuck WWE. 

From what I've seen in term of presentation, the one thing I can say is that I hope AEW never becomes that big (probably has no chance of happening). This is not what I want from my pro-wrestling product. It's like there's some pro-wrestling getting in the ways of the constant bombing of commercials and sponsors. It's a visual nightmare of gaudy über capitalism sterile aesthetic. The NOAH big shows production feels big, but in a totally different way. This is just, yuck.

Gotta give it up to Jim Cornette, that pro-wrestling visionary who thought not only AEW had no chance of succeeding, but also that El Generico and Kevin Steen did not have what it took to be superstars.

Odds on Cody crying tonight ? 

[sek69]

The interesting part of this potential deal is that even if Vince manges to worm himself back in to creative control, he's not going to be at the top of the food chain anymore. I wonder how long he can stand having someone over him. 

[The Thread Killer]

The other thing is, I suppose it’s technically possible for the Saudis to buy up a big chunk of the remaining stock after the sale, no? Don’t they already own a big piece of Newcastle United and a bunch of banks and stuff?