GWE 2026 Reaction Thread

[El-P]

5 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I'm guessing it's John Morrison. I've never watched a John Morrison match in my life. 

Yes it is. The joke, which isn't a joke, is that he has been changing his name with more often than not the name of the promotion he worked for. He first was Johnny Mundo in LU, then Johnny Impact in IMPACT (before they re-named back into TNA), then Johnny TV in AEW when he was part of QTV (and Johnny Elite when he first showed up), now Johnny Counsejo in CMLL (where he lost an great apusta match, and his hair, not that long ago to Angel de Oro) etc... 

[ohtani's jacket]

2 minutes ago, El-P said:

Yes it is. The joke, which isn't a joke, is that he has been changing his name with more often than not the name of the promotion he worked for. He first was Johnny Mundo in LU, then Johnny Impact in IMPACT (before they re-named back into TNA), was Johnny TV in AEW, Johnny Counsejo in CMLL (where he lost an great apusta match, and his hair, not that long ago to Angel de Oro) etc... 

Well, I'm learning something between this and the pencil girl. 

[cad]

5 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I think Lizmark's case boils down to his AAA work against Parka and Jerry Estrada. That's when we see Lizmark at the peak of his powers. There aren't a lot of great Lizmark matches or performances outside of that. Not saying he wasn't capable. We just don't have it on tape. 

You're not wrong, but you can see something like Lizmark vs Enfermero Jr. and get that the Estrada match from '93 was a template Lizmark had formed long before. The Estrada match is better, largely because Estrada is a more dramatic worker who set out to have the most exciting match possible while still putting Lizmark over, whereas Enfermero seemed to approach his task as putting Lizmark over as strongly as possible while having the most dramatic match he could within those confines. The AAA run is the best representation of him on video, yeah. I can combine that with the flashes of his early '80s work and extrapolate that he was likely working like that in his physical prime as well, when he was also the most explosive athlete in the promotion. You have to do SOME guesswork with the older guys.

It's his work after he returns from Pavillon Azteca through about '91 that's fairly disappointing. He didn't seem all that motivated in that period, when he was primarily wrestling heavies. After the Parka feud ends in '94 he starts to show his age but still turns the clock back for a highlight or two.

[Microstatistics]

5 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I think Lizmark's case boils down to his AAA work against Parka and Jerry Estrada. That's when we see Lizmark at the peak of his powers. There aren't a lot of great Lizmark matches or performances outside of that. Not saying he wasn't capable. We just don't have it on tape. 

Not that it makes much of a difference. Unless there are a lot of votes for the high end lucha candidates, it doesn't seem like this demographic cares much for lucha, or older wrestling in general.

I don't know, I think Lizmark was one of Satanico's best opponents over the years. I might be the only one super high on it, but the 7/14/1998 title bout is one of the best lucha bouts of the 90s and Lizmark is a beast in it particularly on offense.

 

#664

Melina

Glad she got votes, I was nearly one of them.

#639

Otto Wanz

One of the most effective local aces.

#613

Gabe Kidd

Huh, interesting one for the recency. The Omega Dome match is a modern classic, but if you value enough of the NJPW run, I could see a case I suppose.

#612

Togi Makabe

A deceptively comprehensive career.

#595

Josh Barnett

My #67. Guy had great matches across three decades.

[club]

17 hours ago, Reel said:

Vince getting votes is, to me, a sign of how far we’ve drifted from the original conception of the project. Personal proclivities aside, if you made a list of the greatest characters in wrestling, or some sort of ranking of holistic value to a wrestling promotion, I can see Vince cleaning up. For a list that is supposed to be based on in-ring footage, boy I can’t think of too many mechanically worse wrestlers. 
 

Is the project based on 'in-ring footage' or just 'footage'? If it's the latter, I can definitely see a case.

[El McKell]

With Hector Garza and Natsuki*Taiyo we're finally getting some wrestlers who got votes in 2016 who are finishing in a better position in 2026 than they did in 2016.

[ethantyler]

I'm just popping in to say Natsuki Taiyo is fucking great. I wish she was around in a more accessible era. 

[HeadCheese]

Johnny GWE

[Tetsujin]

Yukari Ohmori is the first one that really surprised me getting this low. I didn't expect her to make it to the actual list but definitely closer than what she got. 13 ballots seems good enough, until you remember there's more than 400 this time. Ha.

[Grimmas]

My first high vote is Ohmori. I'm sad not more ranked her though.

[club]

Sad seeing Clive Myers so low at 481. Should have voted for him.

[Matt D]

2 minutes ago, club said:

Sad seeing Clive Myers so low at 481. Should have voted for him.

A goal coming out of this should be figuring out how to help people get into WoS footage. JR and i had that thought after it did so poorly in 2016 and we didn't really crack it. 

[Childs]

21 hours ago, Reel said:

Vince getting votes is, to me, a sign of how far we’ve drifted from the original conception of the project. Personal proclivities aside, if you made a list of the greatest characters in wrestling, or some sort of ranking of holistic value to a wrestling promotion, I can see Vince cleaning up. For a list that is supposed to be based on in-ring footage, boy I can’t think of too many mechanically worse wrestlers. 
 

FWIW, I'm not sure the original conception of the project ever centered on wrestling mechanics. You look at the 2016 list, and there are plenty of wrestlers who were great at conveying their character in the ring without necessarily being good technicians. I could at least see an argument for Vince -- gasbag billionaire who's too arrogant to know where he doesn't belong and crazy enough to endanger himself for a buck -- by that measure. Though I'd never vote for him. 

[Shrike02]

My list was pretty idiosyncratic but I was pretty surprised to see one of my picks fall this early in Terry Rudge.

[ohtani's jacket]

1 hour ago, club said:

Sad seeing Clive Myers so low at 481. Should have voted for him.

At this point, top 500 feels likes a victory. 

I was pleasantly surprised by the number of people who voted for Cien Caras. I don't know how many of those votes were based on his in-ring work, but he was a smart worker who was hugely charismatic. 

[ohtani's jacket]

5 hours ago, Microstatistics said:

I don't know, I think Lizmark was one of Satanico's best opponents over the years. I might be the only one super high on it, but the 7/14/1998 title bout is one of the best lucha bouts of the 90s and Lizmark is a beast in it particularly on offense.

I'll make it a point to revisit them.

[El-P]

Gannosuke & Shinzaki so close to each others. Those were the days of FMW, post Onita, pre Fuyuki. The most fun days of the promotion, really.

The Ultimate Warrior. 🙃 Even AI would not vote for The Ultimate Warrior.

[Control21]

Wow, I'm surprised Ken Shamrock didn't finish higher 

[El-P]

1 minute ago, Control21 said:

Wow, I'm surprised Ken Shamrock didn't finish higher 

But.... Why ?

[Control21]

1 minute ago, El-P said:

But.... Why ?

A huge book came out about him recently. Figured that would help raise his profile 

[El-P]

4 minutes ago, Control21 said:

A huge book came out about him recently. Figured that would help raise his profile 

Ah, ok ! I see. 

Because it couldn't possibly be because of his actual work. 😎 And I say that as someone who did enjoy his short WWF stint, especially the first few months were he brought something different. Although that really peaked with him and Vader beating the shit out of each others in FMW.

[Control21]

Just now, El-P said:

Ah, ok ! I see. 

Because it couldn't possibly be because of his actual work. 😎 And I say that as someone who did enjoy his short WWF stint, especially the first few months were he brought something different. Although that really peaked with him and Vader beating the shit out of each others in FMW.

I thought his WWF run was OK, nothing terrible, even if it wasn't great.

I wish people were at least familiar with his pre-Pancrase work. He wasn't Volk Han or anything, but he was very consistent and helped the style evolve. 

[ohtani's jacket]

I don't understand that Blue Demon ranking at all. Is it because of the movies? Did people mean to vote for Blue Demon Jr instead? Why did Blue Demon make the list but El Santo didn't? 

Bestia and Cortez lasted longer than I expected. Hell, it's Shocker. Good for you, buddy. Le Petit Prince? It's a start I guess. 

 

[ohtani's jacket]

6 minutes ago, Control21 said:

I thought his WWF run was OK, nothing terrible, even if it wasn't great.

I wish people were at least familiar with his pre-Pancrase work. He wasn't Volk Han or anything, but he was very consistent and helped the style evolve. 

Yeah, he deserves a spot for his pre-Pancrase work. I don't think his WWF work hurts his case, either. Has anyone revisited his boring, long ass fights with Funaki in PWFG? Those were nearly the death of me twenty years ago. 

[Reel]

11 minutes ago, Control21 said:

A huge book came out about him recently. Figured that would help raise his profile 

The Snowden book? Or is there some other book, because like, that’s essentially self-published.