Dave Meltzer stuff

[Guest TheGreatPuma]

I haven't watched any reality shows since part of a season of Big Brother years ago. Out of curiosity, Are there any reality shows that are real these days? Partly real?

[tigerpride]

All of my friends are wrestling fans. It's awesome, just like wrestling. I see no need to be ashamed or remain in the closet about something so cool.

[khawk20]

I haven't watched any reality shows since part of a season of Big Brother years ago. Out of curiosity, Are there any reality shows that are real these days? Partly real?

Maybe one or two of those Best Chef cooking shows, but probably not them either.

[fishbaugh]

When I started a new career in public accounting I tried to keep it quiet (pretty conservative group of people who i figured wouldn't look kindly on "weird" behavior) but I asked to get off early one Friday so I could get down to Staples Center and got found out. People laugh at me but whatever. I have managed to convince a couple co-workers to join me for a Championship Wrestling from Hollywood show in an hour, so we'll see how that goes!

[JerryvonKramer]

I haven't watched any reality shows since part of a season of Big Brother years ago. Out of curiosity, Are there any reality shows that are real these days? Partly real?

Maybe one or two of those Best Chef cooking shows, but probably not them either.

 

Refuse to believe that the two people from that recent Kitchen Nightmares USA are real. Possibly two of the most insane people ever to appear on television. It was sold to us as having been "news" over there, was it? "The show that has everyone in America talking about it".

[JNLister]

Grew up watching soaps sometimes with my grandma, and the WORST thing that WWE has taken from Soaps is that long drawn out zoom in on a character's face before changing scenes.

Apologies if this is obvious, but I always assumed they do that in soaps so that they've got a few seconds they can leave in/edit out to make sure the show hits its runtime.

[Loss]

Reality TV in general is horrible in keeping kayfabe on the presence of cameras in what are supposed to be surprise moments. To me, that's enough to expose it as a work, but I still know many people who don't understand the degree to which reality shows are scripted.

[khawk20]

I still know many people who don't understand the degree to which reality shows are scripted.

Same here. I suspect it's the same everywhere.

[Cox]

I haven't watched any reality shows since part of a season of Big Brother years ago. Out of curiosity, Are there any reality shows that are real these days? Partly real?

Maybe one or two of those Best Chef cooking shows, but probably not them either.

 

Refuse to believe that the two people from that recent Kitchen Nightmares USA are real. Possibly two of the most insane people ever to appear on television. It was sold to us as having been "news" over there, was it? "The show that has everyone in America talking about it".

 

If it's the episode about Amy's Baking Company, then yes it was news to a degree, in that people like me who don't really watch Kitchen Nightmares have heard of this particular episode and how particularly crazy those people are.

[KrisZ]

There are reality shows that you don't want to think are scripted that are and wrestling used to be like that and still is to some people.

 

I love shows like Pawn Stars & Storage Wars but they can't help themselves at times exposing how worked they are.

[JerryvonKramer]

I was watching this show called "Lizard Lick" (I think), which is clearly clearly scripted. There is no two ways about it.

 

I don't think Kitchen Nightmares is scripted by the way, but those ABC Bakery people are absolutely nuts.

[Cox]

There are reality shows that you don't want to think are scripted that are and wrestling used to be like that and still is to some people.

 

I love shows like Pawn Stars & Storage Wars but they can't help themselves at times exposing how worked they are.

I stopped watching Pawn Stars when I realized how badly scripted it was getting. I know it's silly to stop watching reality TV because it's fake, but when they are that obvious about the work, it becomes harder for me to get lost in the show and enjoy it. Maybe that's the real problem with pro wrestling; for some people, it's too ridiculous to get lost into the work to really enjoy it.

[NintendoLogic]

You can't overlook the importance of class as it pertains to this issue. There's a strong negative correlation between both wealth and education and wrestling fandom. We seem to be a pretty well-educated bunch here, so it's likely that the social circles a lot of us travel in are pretty far removed from the typical wrestling fan. There's also the fact that to a lot of people, wrestling is strongly associated with the South, which is another strike against it.

 

As several of you have pointed out, reality TV is just as fake as wrestling, but it isn't regarded with nearly the same level of derision. That's because the real issue with wrestling isn't that it's a work. It's that the wrong kinds of people enjoy it. Fakeness is just a post hoc justification.

[sek69]

There are reality shows that you don't want to think are scripted that are and wrestling used to be like that and still is to some people.

 

I love shows like Pawn Stars & Storage Wars but they can't help themselves at times exposing how worked they are.

I stopped watching Pawn Stars when I realized how badly scripted it was getting. I know it's silly to stop watching reality TV because it's fake, but when they are that obvious about the work, it becomes harder for me to get lost in the show and enjoy it. Maybe that's the real problem with pro wrestling; for some people, it's too ridiculous to get lost into the work to really enjoy it.

 

 

I never realized how scripted it was until they had a guy on there offering to sell two rare NES games. The guy was someone pretty well known in retro gaming circles, and it's kind of a running gag how important those games are to his collection so there's no way he'd sell them. They made him a ridiculously low ball offer on the show to explain why he didn't sell them, and he's "kept kayfabe" about it ever since.

[jackwebb]

There are reality shows that you don't want to think are scripted that are and wrestling used to be like that and still is to some people.

 

I love shows like Pawn Stars & Storage Wars but they can't help themselves at times exposing how worked they are.

Pawn Stars for sure. At least not everyone on that show is unlikable. They just aren't good actors though so the scripted side story stuff comes off poorly. That other pawn show Hardcore Pawn is even worse. I can't believe that show and all the stereotypes it brings to life. It is just strange the shows like that with no likable people. Especially when there is no chance for a payoff which you at least get in wrestling or shows like Oz.

[Bix]

I still watch Pawn Stars because the stuff is cool and they do a good job giving historical context to it (well, less so since Sean Rich stopped appearing as arms & armor expert), but the scripted side stories are really awful. I don't mind the stuff they have to do for production reasons, like having the store closed for segments they shoot, but the ongoing story lines...ugh. Oh, and some early eps have transactions that became obviously fake later, like Ron Dale selling them a Coca Cola machine that they took to his brother Rick Dale to get restored. If you've seen American Restoration and catch that rerun, that's when the show starts to feel too fake.

 

The worst thing is when shows air footage that's clearly out of order, because then you don't even have the continuity of traditional scripted programming. Celebrity Rehab got especially bad at this, as did the most recent season of The Joe Schmo Show.

[KrisZ]

The best part about the Ron Dale thing is they STILL AIR THE DAMN SHOW on repeats.

 

The WORST of those shows though is Storage Hunters on Tru TV with the homeless man's Dana White as the auctioneer. That show is fucking horrible.

 

That reminds me for a network called Tru TV they have the most scripted looking reality shows

[jdw]

Two points:

 

On the Mafia discussion... yes, exactly. I occasionally use the phrase "This Thing Of Ours" as a stand in for pro wrestling, or our pro wrestling fandom. We know what it's about, it's a thing we share together, folks think it's stupid, but fuck it... we like it. It's not that i avoid talking about it at all costs, or lie about it when it comes up in true Mafia fashion. But it's something that's pointless to talk about with non-fans: no real good comes from it.

 

On the Soap Opera discussion... yes. Watched them in the mid-70s with our Neighborhood Babysitter, i.e. our next door neighbor who was mid/late teens and kept an eye on all of us kids in the neighborhood. She didn't exactly sit us, and all of us guys (basically 9 out of 10 on the block) ran around all up and down the street. But if we wanted to swim, she's watch us (need an "adult" present). She's make sure we grabbed some lunch. If we were out of line, she'd try to get us to knock it off... and we knew that if we pushed it too far it would get back to our parents. Etc.

 

Now... her nickname was Babe. Everyone called her Babe, even her older brothers. And she was a Babe. So the observant little 9 year old that I was noticed that she liked ABC Soaps. And that if I watched them with her, I could hand out with her... and if I paid attention and asked questions about them, she's talk with me a whole lot. Major thing for a 9 year old boy. I recall watching Ryan's Hope from it's 1st episode as it was added to the ABC lineup. That was about all I could take that first year, before heading back out to play with the rest of my neighborhood friends. Following summer... I extended it to watching All My Children. Then she hooked me onto One Life To Life... she hooked me onto General Hospital right before Luke & Laura took off.

 

I stopped watching at some point in high school. I got back into them in college - my college girlfriend happened to be an ABC Soap fan, and she dragged me back in, watching them after morning classes. Pro wrestling and soaps were my stoner college garbage entertainment. Wrestling stuck past college.

 

Anyway... yeah, Soaps are a bit akin to pro wrestling. Except that they were pretty mainstream for a big chunk of the population in the 60s and 70s. Super popular among women who were off, and they would talk about them. Though on some level it was like wrestling: my mom would talk about them with other women who watched them (she was an NBC watcher until the early/mid 70s when she went back to work), but it wasn't something she'd talk to my dad about. So yeah... pretty good comp for pro wrestling.

 

Also agree with the folks who lament them dying out. I would have thought that with all the cable channels that one of them would have been the landing spot for scaled back soaps. Smaller casts, perhaps fewer of them, and perhaps scaling back to 30 minutes. You'd think that USA Network, or ABC Family (or Soap Net itself since ABC owns it), or Bravo... that one of them would take it on. But the costs of an old sitcom are less. Still, you'd think it would be similar to cable itself: 5 million viewers gets you cancelled on NBC in a key timeslot, but on A&E or TNT, that's a massive hit. You'd think that there would be a cost effective way to have sustained the soap concept, and some of the major soaps themselves, by transitioning to cable with smart budget control.

 

Anyway, it is sad.

[Bix]

The best part about the Ron Dale thing is they STILL AIR THE DAMN SHOW on repeats.

Exactly. I understand wanting a way to introduce Rick Dale to the show without waiting for a new item to come in to get restored, but i don't know why they keep the episode in rotation. There was also at least one item sold to the shop on the show that the seller actually took back and sold on eBay thanks to the ensuing publicity. Maybe the early Mac a woman brought in?

 

Also: Bob Dylan...what the hell? Even if he's a big fan, THAT was weird for a clearly bogus plot.

[Marty]

I still watch Pawn Stars because the stuff is cool and they do a good job giving historical context to it (well, less so since Sean Rich stopped appearing as arms & armor expert), but the scripted side stories are really awful. I don't mind the stuff they have to do for production reasons, like having the store closed for segments they shoot, but the ongoing story lines...ugh. Oh, and some early eps have transactions that became obviously fake later, like Ron Dale selling them a Coca Cola machine that they took to his brother Rick Dale to get restored. If you've seen American Restoration and catch that rerun, that's when the show starts to feel too fake.

Oddly enough, The Old Man is the only guy I enjoy in the side stories because it's obvious he doesn't give a shit about any of them or the acting part. He's entertaining in that way for some reason, I think because his dry nature has a nice "less is more" feel. The other three come across like they're trying too hard on the acting part.

 

I can't say I showcase my pro wrestling fandom too publically either. Thinking about it, though, I don't showcase any fandom of things that a. aren't that mainstream and b. could come across risque. I don't exactly talk to many people about any enjoyment I have of, say, N.W.A or Sarah Silverman's act/TV show. Wrestling falls under the same category for me.

[Matt D]

The Pawn Stars side stories don't bug me at all. Of course they're staged but how corny they are is half the fun. There are never any serious stakes involved or anything. There's no gravitas. "Uh oh! Chumley rigged the Christmas Party!" It's like reading a Beatle Bailey comic and it breaks up the show and gives it some cohesiveness. Rigging items/transactions is a bit trickier since then you sort of wonder what the point is, but so long as the items are interesting and the experts are compelling, it's not so bad.

 

I don't see why anyone would be offended by Chumley's adventures in bufoonery though. It's like watching a poor man's goofy short in between the newsreel.

[Strummer]

I still watch Pawn Stars because the stuff is cool and they do a good job giving historical context to it (well, less so since Sean Rich stopped appearing as arms & armor expert), but the scripted side stories are really awful. I don't mind the stuff they have to do for production reasons, like having the store closed for segments they shoot, but the ongoing story lines...ugh. Oh, and some early eps have transactions that became obviously fake later, like Ron Dale selling them a Coca Cola machine that they took to his brother Rick Dale to get restored. If you've seen American Restoration and catch that rerun, that's when the show starts to feel too fake.

 

The worst thing is when shows air footage that's clearly out of order, because then you don't even have the continuity of traditional scripted programming. Celebrity Rehab got especially bad at this, as did the most recent season of The Joe Schmo Show.

 

Oh man Celebrity rehab was so terrible at this in their last couple seasons. Totally embarrassing. It took me right out of the show

[Cox]

The Pawn Stars side stories don't bug me at all. Of course they're staged but how corny they are is half the fun. There are never any serious stakes involved or anything. There's no gravitas. "Uh oh! Chumley rigged the Christmas Party!" It's like reading a Beatle Bailey comic and it breaks up the show and gives it some cohesiveness. Rigging items/transactions is a bit trickier since then you sort of wonder what the point is, but so long as the items are interesting and the experts are compelling, it's not so bad.

 

I don't see why anyone would be offended by Chumley's adventures in bufoonery though. It's like watching a poor man's goofy short in between the newsreel.

I wouldn't say I'm offended by them, and I give them a pass for all the wacky Chumlee stuff since he was clearly the breakout character of the series. And like MARTYEWR said, I generally like the Old Man because he clearly doesn't give a shit. I think it's more the younger Harrisons that make the show unwatchable for me anymore. Corey is just completely unlikable to me, and Rick might be the worst actor out of everybody. I respect Rick's devotion to carniness, including taking advantage of the poor marks that walk into his pawn shop, but the mix between Beetle Bailey shenanigans and cool things brought into the shop has changed since the first few seasons, and not in a way I find particularly entertaining anymore.

[KrisZ]

And even though parts of Pawn Stars are rigged it's still highly entertaining and the spinoffs they have spawned are great as well. American Restoration, Counting Cars, and Lords of War even though it's on a another network are highly informative and entertaining.

 

American Pickers is maybe the least looking staged show on the A&E/History family and the best overall IMO. Sure the freestyles are almost all planned but the way they handle everything makes it look so good.

[Loss]

I've never watched Pawn Stars, but the show name is an intentional pun, right?