Jump to content
Pro Wrestling Only

Dave Meltzer stuff


Loss

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 9.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Why? What did anyone see in that guy? He didn't have any of the charisma of Rock, Austin, Foley or Taker. He was seen as Shawn Michaels sidekick and it looked to me like WWF had had it with Shawn after WM XIV (his freak out at the press conference struck me as a "that's it" moment but the guy was back a few months later). But still if Shawn couldn't work (or wouldn't work) his value was extremely low so why does his minion still have such pull? Was it the moment HHH suggested the Montreal screwjob he endeared himself to Vince for life (here's someone as ruthless and big a jerk as I am would be his thinking I suspect)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like to think it's a generational issue but really I think it's more Hunter than anything else. I can't think of anyone so insecure that they need to be the smartest, strongest, toughest person in an entertainment field for 15 years.

 

Are there any stage, television or film actors it's this bad? I can't think of anyone with a run that long.

It's a bit harder because the power is spread out. If Will Smith thinks the head of Disney is an asshole, he'll go to Fox. Same with TV, music, etc.

 

We'd have to look at niches. Carson was a King for close to 30 years because nothing was bigger in that time slot and niche than Johnny. If you got on the wrong side of him, he wouldn't book you. That was important in some fields, like Comedians. More so in the 60 and 70s than in the 80s when things like HBO came up to get you over. But still... there was power if Johnny wanted to abuse the shit out of it. He didn't to the degree that he could have.

 

Ed Sullivan was pretty powerful. Might not have been a 15 year run on top without much comp, but at his peak he was powerful. Things like the Smoothers Brothers helped break it, and then the genre kind of dying other than Carol Burnett (who did a different type of "variety" show).

 

I suspect some folks who know Country Music much better than I, and the history of it, can point to some major Gate Keepers of country music. The Opry was very powerful in the radio and early TV era. There might have been a key make/break radio station/program/DJ at some point.

 

For sure there have been things like Broadway Critics who have how power/influence back when it matter. Even worse: asshole food critics whose review could kill/make restaurants back in the day.

 

Jim Nantz today is something a 2000 Pound Gorilla at CBS, covering what ever the hell he wants, in the role that he wants. The irony is that CBS ran Musburger out of town for being the same thing and having too much power, then within a few years created Nantz. It's a different kind of power than say Trip, but guys like Simms and Faldo would be gone if they crossed Nantz.

 

Hmm...

 

The NFL is pretty much Vince & Trip rolled into one. In fact, Vince & Trip have dick on them. At times it's been the commish who holds almost all of the power. Rozelle's "League Think" made them all so much money that the owners ceded loads of power to him, while he was also great at making all of them happy (with the exception of Davis). He laid the foundation for the relationships with the networks (multiple networks rather than just 1). Tags was able to exploit the power of the NFL even more with the Networks, as I think a lot of us can recall ESPN cancelling a series that drew well simply because the NFL told them to... with the implied "We can always find some other cable channel to carry our games in the next contract" laying behind it. Tags always looked like a college professor, and since Rozelle's power was so well know, I don't think most people got how powerful and shrew Tags was. Anway, Goodell is a big fellow, looks like he might knock your block off, so people have always thought he was willing to strong arm folks.

 

Anyway... the NFL does whatever it wants, and everyone ducks for cover from it. Even college football. The NFL has been going it for longer than Trip, just that they get a new "promoter" every 20 or so years. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why? What did anyone see in that guy? He didn't have any of the charisma of Rock, Austin, Foley or Taker. He was seen as Shawn Michaels sidekick and it looked to me like WWF had had it with Shawn after WM XIV (his freak out at the press conference struck me as a "that's it" moment but the guy was back a few months later). But still if Shawn couldn't work (or wouldn't work) his value was extremely low so why does his minion still have such pull? Was it the moment HHH suggested the Montreal screwjob he endeared himself to Vince for life (here's someone as ruthless and big a jerk as I am would be his thinking I suspect)?

Hunter has a great work ethic

 

Hunter was/is reliable in the sense that he doesn't drink or do drugs (other than HGH/roids obviously)

 

Hunter was in with the kliq, at a time when Vince was in love with HBK and Nash

 

Hunter took his punishment for the MSG incident like a man, unfairly taking the brunt of it, and no complaining

 

Hunter is very cunning politically

 

Hunter is a huge fan of bodybuilding

 

It's no real surprise to me that Vince made him his adopted son

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In late 99, they were desperate for a new headline heel. Undertaker had been done to death in that role in the previous year, Foley was retiring, Rock was too popular to turn back, they didn't trust Big Show, etc.

 

This was the period where they tried giving Billy Gunn a big singles push but it was clearly not going to work. Austin wouldn't work with Jarrett. You can blame HHH for the lack of a Jericho push, but read Jericho's book - there were plenty of issues between him and Vince anyways and he was certainly not going to be the guy at that time. What were their other options? Turning Test? Making Shane WWE champ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WO.com just posted that Punk told Vince he was going home and now he's off all shows for the next few weeks. I guess that explains the unusual addition to the Elimination Chamber, but I wonder if we get interviews of HHH saying Punk took his ball and went home.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not surprised Punk did it. Hell, if it's true that it's going to be Bryan/HHH, this means there's basically no room for Punk at WM. Also, wasn't there word a while back that he was banged up something bad? He hasn't really taken any time off in a few years.

He took two months off last year.

 

My mistake.

 

The payoff thing would be interesting, but that's for the Network thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess Luger maybe, but Vince gave up on that after eight months.

Luger had been the last efficient draw of the NWA though, against Ric Flair. He was an established star already. Of course Vince fucked it up by making him a happy choker at SummerSlam.

 

I don't understand why so many times in wrestling the bookers think you can just drag out the hot challenger a little bit longer. It happened to Luger in WCW and WWF.

 

WWE still does it all the time. I don't even know if that's what they are doing to Bryan or just don't want to give him the title. I'd much rather go back to the time when people were complaining about too many title switches than now where they kill guys like Ryback because they are so stuck to a long title reign.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

His argument about the Bryan push was pretty much solely about numbers. And it wasn't even his argument, he was just saying why WWE doesn't get behind him. They think his ratings numbers, house show attendance & merchandise sales aren't enough for him to be a top guy.

 

I'm not even sure they are being inconsistent here. One of things that made them finally get behind Punk was the fact that his numbers were always better than his push. Bryan is one of the 5 most featured guys they have, if his numbers are below their expectations for that I could see why they wouldn't want to get behind him more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So in the new Observer, it's mentioned Dave got the idea the Rumble crowd had a lot of out of town folk because the ROH show the day before had a house of over 1,000.

I don't think it played a big role for ROH. ROH finally held a show in the heart of the city and it paid off. It took them 12 years to do it. They held the show in a well-known place that was easily accessible to most of the city. Even if Andre the Giant came back from the dead to work an ROH show, it would have never hit 1,000+ in the Belle Vernon area.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never seen this before but came across it today. It's from the Feb 24, 1992 Observer, and I would LOVE for the Dave who wrote it to have to have a conversation with the Dave of today.

 

Anyway, I've come up with my own ideas of a steroid policy for WCW. The policy involves almost no additional costs. It involves no suspensions. It involves no tests. It doesn't even force anyone to get off steroids if they don't want to, but the result would be that either they'll all want to get off steroids, they'll leave the promotion which solves the problem or, over the long run, they'll be forced out of the spotlight. To do so you have to go right to the core of the problem--eliminating the competitive advantage one would gain at least for taking serious doses. That should be one of the main goals of a real steroid policy anyway. A policy that would protect those who don't want to use steroids from suffering from a lessened push or lessened chance of getting employment because of that decision. At the same time, you want to encourage wrestlers to either slack off or to completely get off the juice to protect their long-term health. Let me preface this by saying Vince McMahon would actually be far more effective than Kip Frey in implementing this policy because he has far greater knowledge of steroids and bodybuilding and the psychology that goes with steroid use. But I wouldn't recommend this program to the WWF because for it to work it would take a chief executive who is 100 percent honest and sincere about ridding his company of the competitive advantages steroids bring and would enforce the policy fairly to all. McMahon's actions makes me believe he would be, despite his knowledge of the subject, perhaps the most ineffective person to administer such a program. In Frey's case, we have no way of knowing one way or the other. Thus far nobody has any reason to believe he isn't sincere on this subject and because of that have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

The policy is simple. Every wrestler is told that in 90 days, if they still appear to be on steroids, they will do one clean job with no controversy at every television taping until their body no longer has a steroid look. Ninety days is more than enough grace period because you should be able to cycle down (going off cold turkey leads to problems) in three or four weeks and most bodybuilders when they are completely off steroids will have noticeable physique differences in two weeks. At every taping there will be an expert on the subject to look at the guys and yes, there will be some guys with less than gifted genetics who can use some roids and look like they don't and slide through, but those guys weren't getting much of a competitive advantage from using the roids anyway. After all, Dustin Rhodes could use steroids and still never look as good as Lex Luger or Rick Rude would if they didn't use steroids or probably even if they didn't lift because genetics play a big role in how one looks. Any long-time bodybuilding expert or drug guru with a trained eye can study the guys and pretty well would know a certain look that means someone is on. Admittedly, one can be on, particularly low doses or be on and not train hard (but if that's the case, what's the point in being on in the first place) and slide by since there are no suspensions involved, but they aren't benefitting competitively from the use so it doesn't matter except to themselves and their own health and you can't save someone from themselves completely but you can help others. Now I can just hear people saying that there would be some major legal problems about asking someone to do a clean job without any proof in the form of test results that the person was using steroids and if mishandled, that's a valid point. The deal is, nobody will ever be asked to do a job on television to someone who isn't a better worker than they are in the first place. In extreme cases like Rick Steamboat, where nobody is better, if necessary, someone who is on their level. For example, Lex Luger, if they believe he were to be on, would have to lose to someone like Steamboat or Brian Pillman who is a better worker anyway with a crossbody off the top with no controversy. Steamboat to Arn Anderson or Bobby Eaton. You don't have Sting losing to, say, Mr. Hughes, only to someone like Terry Taylor or Anderson. So you're rewarding the good workers which is what Frey is preaching about doing anyway. Even if you err and the guy isn't on (which really should almost never happen), you're still getting a competitive match, and a clean win by the better wrestler to begin with so you really aren't being unfair to any wrestlers or the fans if you are wrong. In some cases, in the fans' eyes, because of how they've been educated to this point, you'll wind up with a major upset on television especially at the beginning, but that will only serve to make the television more interesting when people realize it's unpredictable. I mean, if Scott Steiner were to get pinned clean by Bobby Eaton's Alabama Jam or examples like that would occur every week with big names for a month, nobody would ever know who would win on television and it would probably improve ratings because of unpredictability and clean finishes. That's pretty much the booking strategy that may have made Riki Choshu the wrestling world's best booker in 1991. As long as the wrestler looks like he's on steroids, he does one clean job per taping every week until he looks like he's off. Let the guys still go over on house shows if they're supposed to because you need to have certain types of finishes to send fans home happy or satisfied, but every wrestler knows that if they job eight straight weeks on television, it'll force them from the top of the arena cards inevitably anyway. What's the message the fan at home gets? A great worker beats a muscled-up steroid guy every time. What better message to send to kids teaching them steroids isn't the way? In fact, the subliminal message it gives, if you want to analyze it closely is that using steroids makes one a loser. Yeah, for real sports it's a fake message. But in other ways it's creating a positive message. Wrestling can't change the world, but this policy will encourage those who want to become wrestlers and who idolize wrestlers to learn to be either be great workers or to subliminally appreciate something other than bicep size and striations in the chest. Wrestling would no longer encourage anyone, and in fact, would discourage everyone influenced by it, from shooting roids. In the long run it'll make it a cleaner product and a better wrestling product because the guys will know their bread is buttered based on what they do once the bell rings, and not how they look standing there or flexing. The best thing about this policy is it allows guys to stay on steroids if they want to, but they won't want to and not only because they won't be rewarded for it. Guys who are on roids will either quit the promotion rather than do the jobs which means the promotion will clean up, or, they'll get off roids. If there's one thing that a wrestler who has achieved stardom hates to do even more than see the changes that occurs when one goes off steroids, it's doing clean jobs on television every week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Rumble is the 2nd biggest WWE PPV of the year. The Rumble match itself is kind of the "can't miss" traditional WWE match of the year, regardless of recent quality. It's likely there were a lot of non Pittsburgh natives at the show.

There were a number of people in the same hotel where the PTBN contingent was staying. Saw them at breakfast, the bar the day before, the shuttle, etc. We had guys drive in from Michigan and fly from as far as Wisconsin and Georgia (chad!). It's the second biggest PPV as you said. Definitely a good chunk of out of towners.

 

I think the Rumble being in Pittsburgh - and being at the very convenient convention center (i've seen two ROH shows at convention centers and it's a very comfortable atmosphere with plenty of room to walk around), absolutely contributed to the big gate for ROH. Sucked that London was a late cancel due to flight issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Meltzer was very negative on the James Dudley WWF Hall of Fame induction in 1994, taking multiple shots at it including this one after talking about Ladd going into the Louisiana Sports Hall of Fame and Hodge going into the Oklahoma Sports Hall of Fame.

 

"Wonder if either of those Hall of Fames has inducted any chauffeurs lately?"

 

I know the general sentiment about Dudley now is a lot more positive. Did Dave ever change his tune on this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...