Dave Meltzer stuff

[Fando]

 

Just playing devil's advocate, what's the relative benefit to seeing MMA live?

Wrestling is an art, where knowing the result doesn't ruin it, while MMA is a sport and if you know the result, then why watch?

 

 

Yeah but 6 million people watched Diaz-McGregor 1 on youtube over the past two weeks. Doesn't seem that the drama, art and technique involved is lost once the outcome is known.

 

I never heard that "needs live" coverage argument compared to pro wrestling but whenever Meltzer says he's gotta talk about MMA first on the show it's usually because it's the "bigger" story that day across all sports media or "people keep asking me" or something like that.

[NotJayTabb]

I think watching 1-on-1 combat sports after the event is different to watching other sports. You can notice clever little tactical moments on rewatch or spot the turning point when the momentum starts to shift in a way you can't really do with team sports. I know from personal experience that I've watched my DVD of Calzaghe vs Lacy numerous times, whilst my copy of the 1987 FA Cup final has been watched once in the background.

[Tim Cooke]

Meltzer has covered MMA since 1993. UFC is now usually half of the Observer. UFC202 was one of the bigger shows this year. All pretty clear. You don't lose anything on tape delay with wrestling. Live sports is a different animal.

[Matt D]

Watching wrestling live and watching on tape delay is absolutely the same as watching a sport live or on tape delay so long as you don't know the results/details of either. Likewise Game of Thrones.

[GOTNW]

I get the impression combat sports are more interested in the actual action than just winning/losing. Team sports are popular because they're a competition of brands that people get attached to for stupid reasons like liking a colour or a name. And with that popularity comes a system aimed at producing as much content as possible and the average fan watches three minute highlights and talks shit about a game he didn't watch based on the result and statistics.

[Loss]

I don't think this is an issue worth criticizing Dave for at all, but by his own standards, I will say if he doesn't watch all wrestling as it happens, then he's looking at it through an out-of-context lens. Standards change constantly, even from day to day after all.

[Jimmy Redman]

I also think Dave's problem with attending WWE shows live is that he feels it's a completely different experience without commentary and the TV view and thus ends up having to watch the TV version later on anyway to be able to report on it properly.

[Beast]

The new issue is fantastic.

 

Not only is there the Brock/Orton/Jericho/Bryan/Miz work/shoot information, but Dave writes a wonderful bio for Scott Williams and details his trip to the Wrestling Hall of Fame.

[Beast]

According to Dave on Twitter, he believes Jerry Estrada is the most underrated wrestler ever.

[Loss]

I don't know if I agree, but I think it's awesome that he said it.

[goc]

I'm not even going to bother looking at the responses to that because any time Dave brings up a Mexican wrestler or promotion the responses are staggeringly stupid. He's had TNAMecca type people in his mentions for the past few days arguing that TNA is a bigger promotion than CMLL "because they have more international TV deals!" despite the fact that CMLL probably makes more money in a month than TNA does in a whole year.

[Memphis Mark]

I would venture that CMLL , AAA , NJPW , Dragon Gate , NOAH and ROH all bank more cash than TNA. People seem to forget that ROH does not buy air time or share their ad revenue . All the revenue that ROH TV generates goes straight into SBGI pockets. TNA has a barter deal on POP TV , which some people think is better than actually owing the free broadcast stations that carries your wrestling program. .

 

ROH is the clear cut number two promotion in America. TNA cannot even run house shows or sell shows anymore. I find it comical that Billy Corgan tells anyone who will listen that TNA is the number two wrestling promotion in the world. Hell , TNA is not even number two in North America

[Strummer]

so Dave on twitter said that Raw was close to being cancelled around the same time USA cancelled Tuesday Night Fights. A quick search says TNFs was cancelled in August 1998 right when Raw was going through a ratings resurgence. So this can't be the right time frame, can it? I would have to say sometime in 95/96. Never heard Raw was close to being axed

[Eduardo]

Dave's timing seems to be way off in that statement.

[gingears]

http://articles.courant.com/1998-04-12/sports/9804120196_1_elijah-tillery-usa-tuesday-night-fights-troy-dorsey

 

This article dates the decision to cancel TNF as early as April. IIRC, the Raw ratings resurgence started in April with the Austin/McMahon non-match. There's also the always present issue of viewer demographics that figures into these decisions.

[Jimmy James]

Meltzer's new assessment of Roman Reigns as a wrestler is that he's "decent enough" but is bad at selling, which is the new saying Sheamus was "in position for everything" I guess.

[goc]

Well he was definitely "decent enough" to outclass indy gods Kevin Owens and Seth Rollins in the four way. The idea that he's bad at selling is also really funny but I guess maybe in Dave's book that means he spends too much time doing it instead of doing a bunch of moves.

[sek69]

So are we really going to keep acting like Roman is some kind of super worker now? I mean, yes he's improved from when he was just the big scary dude in the Shield, but I feel like a lot of this Reigns love is a kneejerk reaction to fans continuing to boo him.

[The Chief]

If you're continually involved in the best matches in the company then yes you deserve a "super-worker" reputation. I don't know what "acting" like someone is a good worker is even supposed to mean. Just adding up the stuff from 2016 alone is enough to justify his case for me.

[goc]

I'm not sure how it's "pretending" a guy is a "super worker" when he continually puts out great matches. But I guess he still hasn't ticked off that "worked in Japan" box to be a "super worker" yet.

[El-P]

So are we really going to keep acting like Roman is some kind of super worker now?

 

Yes. It's the Contrarian-to-stupid-contrarian-meta-mainstream-WWE-fans-&-Evil-Meltzer-japaneseshit-workrate-culture attitude. That's the way now. Be in on it. #lolmovez.

[FMKK]

So are we really going to keep acting like Roman is some kind of super worker now? I mean, yes he's improved from when he was just the big scary dude in the Shield, but I feel like a lot of this Reigns love is a kneejerk reaction to fans continuing to boo him.

 

I really don't think it's a stretch at all to say that he's better than Seth Rollins, who does a lot of cool moves but is terrible in his role as a top heel. And Rollins has been pushed just as hard by the company as a top star as Reigns has but doesn't get any shit whatsoever in spite of some glaring flaws in his game. If Reigns had have come through NXT two years later than he did he wouldn't be hated by people still pretending that he can't work.

[The Chief]

I don't think it's a stretch to say he's better than Dean Ambrose either who's probably one of the most inconsistent guys on the entire roster.

[Loss]

Reigns I thought did a very good job in that match last night, but I also wish he could tighten up his execution on a few moves, mainly his clothesline.

[El-P]

I'm still frustrated about not getting that Reigns vs Rusev match at SS. He's good. He can have really good matches. He's certainly not a super worker.