Matt D Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 Dave's broader point is that most of the people who bash him for saying PWG is far above WWE ring-wise don't watch it. I think it is true that most people who watch PWG regularly consider it to be clearly superior to WWE. But it's not axiomatic, and a good amount of that is due to self-selection bias.The reason that is, because people who don't watch PWG don't watch it because they don't think it's good.This is an interesting factor to consider. For a long time, though not recently, PWG was considered the super indie promotion where guys went to slum it. Maybe that stuck to some fans who felt burned by them? Obviously that's always been a Dave thing (Murdoch, Jumbo), so he'd get that if people raised it. What I doubt he'd get as easily would be people with open eyes and open minds simply not liking the super indy style in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 Neither AJ/Finn nor the best PWG match on any weekend would be the 3rd best on a random 1993 W*ING houseshow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 Dave's broader point is that most of the people who bash him for saying PWG is far above WWE ring-wise don't watch it. I think it is true that most people who watch PWG regularly consider it to be clearly superior to WWE. But it's not axiomatic, and a good amount of that is due to self-selection bias.The reason that is, because people who don't watch PWG don't watch it because they don't think it's good.This is an interesting factor to consider. For a long time, though not recently, PWG was considered the super indie promotion where guys went to slum it. Maybe that stuck to some fans who felt burned by them? Obviously that's always been a Dave thing (Murdoch, Jumbo), so he'd get that if people raised it. What I doubt he'd get as easily would be people with open eyes and open minds simply not liking the super indy style in the first place. This. Because he views all wrestling as something tied entirely to time and place, to not like something popular is to be out of touch. It's not any more complicated than that in his mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadaveri Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Is PWG really all that popular? It's never done a show with 400+ attendance, and looking at Google Trends gets about the same search numbers as Chikara. I feel like it gets more coverage among hardcores due to being Dave Meltzer's local indie where he reviews every show more than it having any real grassroots popularity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Yeah, but they never hold a show in a building that can hold more than 400, and they charge super high prices for tickets that sell out in minutes practically every time. It's got a hip buzz and has celebrity regulars AFAIK. It's not exactly a typical local indy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Is PWG really all that popular? It's never done a show with 400+ attendance, and looking at Google Trends gets about the same search numbers as Chikara. I feel like it gets more coverage among hardcores due to being Dave Meltzer's local indie where he reviews every show more than it having any real grassroots popularity. They're the top indy but it really doesn't have anything to do with Dave. They were selling out every month long before he even started paying attention to them a couple years ago. It probably helped them gain a little popularity/buzz online once he started to cover it but it likely has more to do with the fact that it's the Young Bucks' home company and they became stars on their own. I think a lot of fans also grew to like it when guys like Steen would say it was their favorite company to work for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadaveri Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 I didn't know Dave only started covering them that recently. Thanks for the correction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Its also not Daves local indie. He lives 5 hours away. Funny enough, there is a 20 year old indie that could be called Daves local indie that is running the Cow Palace for the 2nd time this year in less than 2 weeks with a dream match main event. Has Dave covered it at all? I dont know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBscout Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 PWG still has the best highlight videos. The music, editing, and all the spots rolled into one vid are still super cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Meltzer covered the last Cow Palace show. Can't remember if he attended it live. I want to say he did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Its also not Daves local indie. He lives 5 hours away. Funny enough, there is a 20 year old indie that could be called Daves local indie that is running the Cow Palace for the 2nd time this year in less than 2 weeks with a dream match main event. Has Dave covered it at all? I dont know I'm going to be in the Bay Area on vacation shortly but I am leaving that morning. I was so pissed when I saw that that show is happening when I won't be there. Looks awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Is PWG really all that popular? It's never done a show with 400+ attendance, and looking at Google Trends gets about the same search numbers as Chikara. I feel like it gets more coverage among hardcores due to being Dave Meltzer's local indie where he reviews every show more than it having any real grassroots popularity. By popular, I meant trendy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Is PWG really all that popular? It's never done a show with 400+ attendance, and looking at Google Trends gets about the same search numbers as Chikara. I feel like it gets more coverage among hardcores due to being Dave Meltzer's local indie where he reviews every show more than it having any real grassroots popularity. They're the top indy but it really doesn't have anything to do with Dave. They were selling out every month long before he even started paying attention to them a couple years ago. It probably helped them gain a little popularity/buzz online once he started to cover it but it likely has more to do with the fact that it's the Young Bucks' home company and they became stars on their own. I think a lot of fans also grew to like it when guys like Steen would say it was their favorite company to work for. Yeah, this. They started picking up steam in 2010 or 2011. Dave being into it is a much more recent trend. A lot of guys I talk wrestling with are super into it. I've mentioned this in other threads but they have a very conservative business plan and always have. They run the same building that I believe they own so that's why their attendance has never crossed 400. They could probably doing over 1,000 in the right location but they seem interested to run 12-15 shows a year in the same building and sell their DVDs and make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 In fairness, the track record for wrestling companies that are "hot" when they are small, then try to expand isn't great. So maybe that's wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 I think they are smartly passing up money now in favor of being viable long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 That they've resisted any offers to stream their service, either through iPPV or a streaming service, is interesting too. I think they made the right decision in regards to most of the fly-by-night bad iPPV services that weren't able to handle demand, and history has shown that resisting FloSlam's money was probably for the best as well. Eventually I think they will move to a streaming service, either through Highspots or Powerbomb or one of the other streaming companies that have a proven track record, or they will start their own service, but that will be an interesting thing to follow with PWG as they continue to grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 That they've resisted any offers to stream their service, either through iPPV or a streaming service, is interesting too. I think they made the right decision in regards to most of the fly-by-night bad iPPV services that weren't able to handle demand, and history has shown that resisting FloSlam's money was probably for the best as well. Eventually I think they will move to a streaming service, either through Highspots or Powerbomb or one of the other streaming companies that have a proven track record, or they will start their own service, but that will be an interesting thing to follow with PWG as they continue to grow.Putting guys on live iPPV complicates who they can book, when it comes to guys that have contracted with other companies. PWG is already on HighSpots, at this point, all events through last year's BOLA. They basically get posted a year behind the current DVD releases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNLister Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 I'm sure their business plan works great and all, but if the problem is only live streaming, then I don't see how they wouldn't do far better business having a $10 VOD of the show within a couple of days (when people could watch spoiler free) than they do by just having DVDs a month or two later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 I'm sure their business plan works great and all, but if the problem is only live streaming, then I don't see how they wouldn't do far better business having a $10 VOD of the show within a couple of days (when people could watch spoiler free) than they do by just having DVDs a month or two later. They have VOD/downloads on a lag after the DVDs/Blu-Rays, for reasons I can only assume have to someone's misguided understanding of how piracy works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 That one I don't understand. Chikara has gotten DVDs of shows out within a week of it happening at certain points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 That one I don't understand. Chikara has gotten DVDs of shows out within a week of it happening at certain points. Yeah, you would think Highspots would get the shows edited quicker than they do with how high a priority they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 I'm sure their business plan works great and all, but if the problem is only live streaming, then I don't see how they wouldn't do far better business having a $10 VOD of the show within a couple of days (when people could watch spoiler free) than they do by just having DVDs a month or two later. They have VOD/downloads on a lag after the DVDs/Blu-Rays, for reasons I can only assume have to someone's misguided understanding of how piracy works. Yea that one is really stupid because if the time difference in a pirated DVD/Blu-Ray copy going up on torrent sites and an mp4 download is like an hour. Less if it's just a .iso copy and not a conversion of the DVD into an mp4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 God this argument is almost 15 years old and still relevant. I remember when the first Ring of Honor tape didn't come out until 5 - 6 months after the show. I want to say that happened for at least the first 2 years of the company. Of course given who was producing ROH at the time, it isn't that shocking. Meanwhile if CZW or IWA Mid South had a show on Saturday, you could order it on Sunday and get it in the middle of the week. Good times. In other news apparently Meltz and others were duped into thinking that the WWE was doing a PPV in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 In other news apparently Meltz and others were duped into thinking that the WWE was doing a PPV in Scotland. Wait what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 He mentioned WWE was going to do a PPV in Scotland next year on the Wednesday WO show before saying he was given misinformation from an UK reporter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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