Dave Meltzer stuff

[Tawren]

Speaking of Henry, does anyone recall that brief period after he came to Raw last year when he beat Orton and started doing that deal with the crowd where he'd raise his arm and they'd go crazy and then lower it and they'd quiet down? That was nuclear heat for modern era WWE. Of course, within a month they'd dropped his push and forgotten it in favor of more Cena/Orton/HHH/HBK feuding.

[Kronos]

Speaking of Henry, does anyone recall that brief period after he came to Raw last year when he beat Orton and started doing that deal with the crowd where he'd raise his arm and they'd go crazy and then lower it and they'd quiet down? That was nuclear heat for modern era WWE. Of course, within a month they'd dropped his push and forgotten it in favor of more Cena/Orton/HHH/HBK feuding.

Probably about the time they put him with MVP, who sucks the heat out of any push.

[Loss]

"Mark Henry was in a few good matches" became reimagined as "Mark Henry is the greatest wrestler on earth". And the ones doing the reimagining were not those who praised Henry, but rather Bryan Alvarez and his followers. He had some matches where he did a good job with game opponents, and he got acknowledged for it. How that got spun as "DVDVR guys are saying Mark Henry is better than Kurt Angle and Shawn Michaels" is something I never got. Yes, there was talk around the same time about Angle and Michaels being overrated, but the arguments didn't really crossover each other.

 

DVDVR posters were never obsessed with Mark Henry. Rather, others were obsessed with DVDVR posters liking Mark Henry in a few matches.

[rovert]

Speaking of Henry, does anyone recall that brief period after he came to Raw last year when he beat Orton and started doing that deal with the crowd where he'd raise his arm and they'd go crazy and then lower it and they'd quiet down? That was nuclear heat for modern era WWE. Of course, within a month they'd dropped his push and forgotten it in favor of more Cena/Orton/HHH/HBK feuding.

Totally forgot but you are totally right. He had that one match with Orton and he was mega over and he was going to be the next JYD then nothing.

 

"Mark Henry was in a few good matches" became reimagined as "Mark Henry is the greatest wrestler on earth". And the ones doing the reimagining were not those who praised Henry, but rather Bryan Alvarez and his followers. He had some matches where he did a good job with game opponents, and he got acknowledged for it. How that got spun as "DVDVR guys are saying Mark Henry is better than Kurt Angle and Shawn Michaels" is something I never got. Yes, there was talk around the same time about Angle and Michaels being overrated, but the arguments didn't really crossover each other.

 

DVDVR posters were never obsessed with Mark Henry. Rather, others were obsessed with DVDVR posters liking Mark Henry in a few matches.

Not even when Angle and Henry wrestled at Royal Rumble, really? Isnt the whole point that Henry total carried Angle coz he sux and Mark Henry is the best Mark Henry there is or some such.

[Loss]

Pull out the quotes if you must, I can tell you want to.

 

And no, I don't recall anyone saying that Henry "carried" Angle.

 

The point was never that Mark Henry was an amazing superworker. The point was that he wasn't as bad as he was made out to be and that at times, he was even good. But I can't recall a time in the past decade when a super heavyweight got credit for actually being good unless he was Brock Lesnar, or to a lesser degree, Batista.

 

Undertaker has gotten it at times, but he was also around before the whole "No one over 240 lbs can possibly be any good" mindset really got carried away.

[Tim Cooke]

No one said Henry carried Angle at Judgement Day 2006. The thought at the time was the match was crappy when Rey and other had good TV matches with him, but Kurt Angle didn't know how to work with the guy.

[Dylan Waco]

Yeah the argument was always "Angle couldn't have a good match with Henry, when Taker and Rey did." This is not surprising as Angle has been in a variety of disappointing matches with guys who one of "the best ever" (as he has often been called) should be having all time classics with. I think Angle peaked in 01 myself.

 

Also should say that "Henry was in a few good matches" is not entirely what the pro-Henry side was saying. In fact I think Henry was really good in 06 and 08 in particular.

[KrisZ]

Listening to last night's show and I think it's time for Dave & Chico to just quit watching WWE. TNA doesn't even count but they sounded like they were just so miserable talking about RAW and wrestling in general.

[sek69]

No one said Henry carried Angle at Judgement Day 2006. The thought at the time was the match was crappy when Rey and other had good TV matches with him, but Kurt Angle didn't know how to work with the guy.

 

Considering Angle was so into the rapid-fire spot bonanza style matches, it's no shocker he couldn't work well with a 400 pound guy.

[That Poor Bastard]

Yeah, but Angle did have a few decent outings with The Big Show if my memory serves me correctly.

 

Of course, Big Show back in 2003-2006 is a lot different from current Big Show, or 2006 Mark Henry.

[Matt D]

I could be mistaken but, in my mind, a lot of the Henry argument in general was that after years of not quite getting it, somewhere between 7 and 10 years ago he really figured out how to "play his role" successfully, i.e. when and how much to sell, how to use his size effectively, what sort of pacing to utilize, when to allow comebacks/when to cutoff comebacks, how to contribute to a logical and coherent story in the ring. Basically what to do when and why and even how.

 

You can decide for yourself how Angle factors in with those elements in mind or if you care about a number of those elements in the first place.

[S.L.L.]

Yeah the argument was always "Angle couldn't have a good match with Henry, when Taker and Rey did." This is not surprising as Angle has been in a variety of disappointing matches with guys who one of "the best ever" (as he has often been called) should be having all time classics with. I think Angle peaked in 01 myself.

 

Also should say that "Henry was in a few good matches" is not entirely what the pro-Henry side was saying. In fact I think Henry was really good in 06 and 08 in particular.

This, both paragraphs. Though, to further clarify the latter paragraph, the pro-Henry side did start out saying "Henry is NOT a superworker. NOT A SUPERWORKER," - a direct TomK quote that I've had to pull before- but several years of consistent, high quality matches have made him more than just a guy who was in a few good matches, culminating in his awesome 2008 run where he cracked the top 25 of the Segunda Caida 100. But in 2006, when the arguments were actually happening, nobody had anything like that to point to.

[kjh]

I was amused listening to Observer Radio that Dave is trying to talk Larry Matysik out of doing a ranked list of the top wrestlers of all time, because how would you do it, it's impossible! Of course, Dave had to finish with the requisite knock about MMA rankings.

[Bix]

I was amused listening to Observer Radio that Dave is trying to talk Larry Matysik out of doing a ranked list of the top wrestlers of all time, because how would you do it, it's impossible! Of course, Dave had to finish with the requisite knock about MMA rankings.

Impossible!

[jdw]

I was amused listening to Observer Radio that Dave is trying to talk Larry Matysik out of doing a ranked list of the top wrestlers of all time, because how would you do it, it's impossible! Of course, Dave had to finish with the requisite knock about MMA rankings.

Impossible!

 

I was going to post that, and Bix beat me to it.

 

 

"Impossible!"

-Meltzzini

 

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

-Inigo Montoya

 

John, who isn't left-handed either...

[Cox]

This sentence is the most Dave Meltzer sentence ever:

 

Arson investigators are on the scene as of this afternoon at Black Widow Customs, a Louisville custom detail shop owned and operated by Lee Varon and wife Lisa Varon, who is Tara on TNA, and her husband, Lee.

[Kronos]

This sentence is the most Dave Meltzer sentence ever:

 

Arson investigators are on the scene as of this afternoon at Black Widow Customs, a Louisville custom detail shop owned and operated by Lee Varon and wife Lisa Varon, who is Tara on TNA, and her husband, Lee.

There's a massive WTF for ya.

 

I don't know the procedure. Is the idea that the firemen on the scene see what might be arson and then call in the specialists? Or is a specialist always called in when a business burns down, and Dave is making news out of it?

 

Also, because I don't know the difference between work and shoot: Maybe she went crazy again? Someone killed her damn spider, and now she has to lash out?

[KrisZ]

I loved Bill Apter on the show last night just had to get that in there.

[Bix]

This sentence is the most Dave Meltzer sentence ever:

 

Arson investigators are on the scene as of this afternoon at Black Widow Customs, a Louisville custom detail shop owned and operated by Lee Varon and wife Lisa Varon, who is Tara on TNA, and her husband, Lee.

Maybe the fire was set by Larry, Daryl, and his other brother Daryl.

[Log]

This sentence is the most Dave Meltzer sentence ever:

 

Arson investigators are on the scene as of this afternoon at Black Widow Customs, a Louisville custom detail shop owned and operated by Lee Varon and wife Lisa Varon, who is Tara on TNA, and her husband, Lee.

There's a massive WTF for ya.

 

I don't know the procedure. Is the idea that the firemen on the scene see what might be arson and then call in the specialists? Or is a specialist always called in when a business burns down, and Dave is making news out of it?

 

Also, because I don't know the difference between work and shoot: Maybe she went crazy again? Someone killed her damn spider, and now she has to lash out?

 

Louisville Fire always calls in arson on business fires.

[Kronos]

Louisville Fire always calls in arson on business fires.

 

As I suspected. Therefore, not a story.

[rovert]

I loved Bill Apter on the show last night just had to get that in there.

Me too, alot of good ancedotes there. I dont get annoyed about the "if you broke into the business nowadays would you have tried MMA " stuff to the extent some people do but I have to say that it was refreshing to hear from someone who had zero interest in MMA on the show killing that line of conversation dead.

[jdw]

I loved Bill Apter on the show last night just had to get that in there.

Me too, alot of good ancedotes there. I dont get annoyed about the "if you broke into the business nowadays would you have tried MMA " stuff to the extent some people do but I have to say that it was refreshing to hear from someone who had zero interest in MMA on the show killing that line of conversation dead.

 

What did he say? "No"?

 

 

John

[KrisZ]

Apter just flat out said that he didn't follow MMA and said that the one PRIDE show he went to was the most violent stuff he'd ever seen and that includes the boxing shows he used to shoot pictures for.

[S.L.L.]

This sentence is the most Dave Meltzer sentence ever:

 

Arson investigators are on the scene as of this afternoon at Black Widow Customs, a Louisville custom detail shop owned and operated by Lee Varon and wife Lisa Varon, who is Tara on TNA, and her husband, Lee.

 

"How many Lees are in this equation?"