Dave Meltzer stuff

[jdw]

I suspect "taking". I get get the overall concept of the item: Cena granting another 30 wishes.

 

John

[jdw]

What did people think of Dave's Thanksgiving piece? Other than obits and HOF bios, he hasn't done too many pro wrestling historical pieces in the past couple of years. Was the buzz on this positive?

 

John

[KrisZ]

It was damn good and it's something that he needs to do more regularly.

[rovert]

It was damn good and it's something that he needs to do more regularly.

Seconded

 

Well structured too.

[kjh]

I thought it would have worked better as a two part piece, maybe focussing on Crockett in the first piece and the other territories in the second. It felt a bit crammed and rushed in places. Pieces like the Rose and Shire bios were better.

 

Strange exchange on Observer radio today where Dave asked Bryan how he liked being one of only seven people in the whole world who knew the real story behind Brock vs. Taker. This ranks up there with the ask Oliver, Oliver knows, comment re: Savage rumours.

[Dooley]

Strange exchange on Observer radio today where Dave asked Bryan how he liked being one of only seven people in the whole world who knew the real story behind Brock vs. Taker. This ranks up there with the ask Oliver, Oliver knows, comment re: Savage rumours.

Lesnar for his part maintains there's a legit personal beef between him and Calloway:

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/03/28/broc...oaching-tuf-13/

[kjh]

Yamato vs. Austin Aries for the Open the Freedom Gate title and if Aries loses, he leaves the company after the weekend (Gabe Sapolsky comes from the Heyman school so if nothing else, the stip will be honored)

Dave got worked!

[flairchops]

The Thanksgiving piece was phenomenal and something I'm sure I'll read again. I liked the History of WrestleMania piece he just wrote, but not nearly as much as the Thanksgiving story. It felt more like a quickly written response to the WWE History of WrestleMania documentary.

[jdw]

I thought he'd done Mania history pieces in the past?

 

John

[Tim Evans]

What was with Dave saying the Hall of fame thing at Mania was "too short" and didn't feature the inductors? It was pretty much what it usually is and they never include the inductors.

[KrisZ]

My favorite was them being kinda shocked that there weren't a ton of signs saying "wrestling" on it because of the name change. Sometimes they are too deep in the forest to see the trees because the bulk of WWE fans don't go online or even care about stuff like that.

[Tim Evans]

So from tonight's Observer Radio, Miz has officially turned into the new "Junkfood" dog. It tops the Orton babyface hate. Dave was in rare form tonight with his hate. Bryan and him dissing Sin Cara cause his entrance wasn't "flashy" enough was funny.

[sek69]

Sin Cara using the old Spirit Squad trampoline to nearly clothesline himself into the top rope wasn't exactly impressive. It did get better, but it wasn't exactly what you'd expect after all the hype videos. Plus based on houseshow reports, they let him do his flashy Mistico stuff the first night and the rest of the time they have him be Generic FCW High Flyer Guy (which he apparently did better than anyone but still) so it kind of makes you wonder why'd they bother signing him if they won't let him do any of the stuff that got him noticed.

 

Also I read Dave's deal with Miz as more frustration at them never giving him a clean win or going strong over anyone and seeming being content in getting him over by just telling people he's a big star. I kind of agree with him, especially how they had Alberto go out and kick the shit out of Evan Bourne and that's more than they let Miz do in months. They clearly like how he goes on TV and is really good doing the kind of mainstream stuff Vince gets a boner over, but not enough to actually have their champion win a match cleanly.

[El-P]

My favorite was them being kinda shocked that there weren't a ton of signs saying "wrestling" on it because of the name change. Sometimes they are too deep in the forest to see the trees because the bulk of WWE fans don't go online or even care about stuff like that.

Now that I actually listen to the shows, I find some of the remarks in this thread as goofy as some of Meltzer's remarks. Really, he said he thought there would be tons of "wrestling" signs because the Wrestlemania audience is hardcore (also that statement makes me raise en eyebrow...), but then admitted that really, the pourcentage of fans getting on the Internet to get all the insider news is zilch. I get the feeling 10 years ago, there would have been tons of "wrestling" signs indeed. Today's audience is just not the smart mark one like during the Monday Night Wars, when people on WWF shows would have signs for Flair during the Bischoff lawsuit deal etc...

 

I got a big kick of the fact the world "wrestling" doesn't exist in the WWE Universe, but the word "Wrestle" was on camera all the freaking time for 4 hours... Not at all schyzophrenic.

[rovert]

Love this Dave story:

 

Funny belt story I heard from last year. HHH was watching HBO boxing and Jim Lampley was talking about a guy winning the belt. He was at TV on the Monday after talking with one of the guys who was a boxing fan and asked if they use the term belts in boxing, since he just assumed it was a wrestling term. He was told they call them belts in boxing as well. He kind of rolled his eyes. He was under the impression Vince didn't like the term because it came from southern wrestling, not realizing the term was not an exclusive wrestling term.

[sek69]

I find it hard to believe he thought "belt" was a wrestling only term, you don't have to be a superfan to know it's a common term anywhere title belts are used. It's also kind of hard to believe he'd ask a question to someone backstage that would make him appear to be such a dumbass. Is Matt Hardy giving Dave exclusives again?

[Matt D]

Love this Dave story:

 

Funny belt story I heard from last year. HHH was watching HBO boxing and Jim Lampley was talking about a guy winning the belt. He was at TV on the Monday after talking with one of the guys who was a boxing fan and asked if they use the term belts in boxing, since he just assumed it was a wrestling term. He was told they call them belts in boxing as well. He kind of rolled his eyes. He was under the impression Vince didn't like the term because it came from southern wrestling, not realizing the term was not an exclusive wrestling term.

 

100% my favorite thing about Hunter is his complete lack of sports knowledge. There was an interview with him and Michaels and it was hilarious how little he knew about football. I think my wife knows more and that's saying something considering we have to go over how many points a field goal is at least once a year.

[Resident Evil]

I doubt HHH has the time to watch any football.

 

Eh, a signifigant amount of people in Canada don't know too much about football either. Hockey's the better man's man sport anyway. And I have no idea how many points a field goal is just like you wife. This is even after watching football movies and listending to JR commentary since forever.

[Strummer]

if you saw the Weakest Link you know Hunter knows nothing about sports. Stephanie for sure knows more

[KrisZ]

Trips was all about bodybuilding and wrestling as a kid along with his love for metal.

[Death From Above]

RE: Football does very good TV ratings in Canada, both CFL and NFL.

 

Obviously not as widely followed as hockey is here but its got a legitimate claim to being #2 on the radar.

[flyonthewall2983]

Trips was all about bodybuilding and wrestling as a kid along with his love for metal.

Replace bodybuilding with cheese sandwiches, and old school prog rock for metal, I'm pretty much the same. And I couldn't tell you how many points a field goal earns if you held a gun to my head.

[jdw]

I doubt HHH has the time to watch any football.

 

Eh, a signifigant amount of people in Canada don't know too much about football either. Hockey's the better man's man sport anyway. And I have no idea how many points a field goal is just like you wife. This is even after watching football movies and listending to JR commentary since forever.

Canada?

 

Trip is from New Hampshire. The southern part. Second largest city in the state, not far from the largest. Closer to Boston than Canada.

 

You know... New England Patriots?

 

Trip wasn't into the Man's Man Sports. As Kris says, he was into the non-sports: bodybuilding & pro wrestling. He went across the border to learn pro wrestling with Killer Kowalski... the Massachusetts border, not Canadian.

 

Trip just wasn't and isn't a sports fan.

 

John

[tomk]

If you can throw a nice clothesline, do a cross armbreaker and connect with a crowd, you can be a perfectly acceptable NJ heavy.

 

Not sure why it always felt like Sasaki was lacking.

 

"connect with the crowd"

[tomk]

Dave "I speak regularly with Dana White" Meltzer complaining about MMA rankings is always amusing, especially when his opening gambit is such a silly sentence:

 

UFC and Strikeforce are not the same sport.

 

One has elbows on the ground. One doesn't. Entirely different, especially in the heavyweight division when you are talking powerful wrestlers.

 

One gives fighters their fights months in advance and they have long camps focusing on the specific fight on a specific date. One makes matches usually a few weeks ahead and guys rush to get into as good a shape as possible, and often opponents for guys they are trying to push are called two weeks out to be opponents so they aren't in the same condition as their foe. Now that does happen in UFC, but it's injury replacements, not originally matched opponents. And in Japan, that is even more pronounced.

 

Japan is even more different. Ring. Biased officials whose job it is to make sure the right guy they are pushing wins. And fighters knowing that it's more important to do a German suplex or a dropkick and lose than win.

 

Nobody in UFC fights anyone in other organizations.

 

Then you want to make ratings, which is silly enough, but is going to be done. But then you want to argue Lesnar vs. Werdum????

 

Aside from Werdum didn't last in UFC and Lesnar was its world champion. And UFC is the major league organization.

 

If I'm listing the best pitchers in baseball, top ten, do I list the guy who wins 20 games in the Japanese Central League or the guy in Puerto Rico or the guy in Mexico. All of them MAY be of major league caliber and perhaps some if they were in the major leagues would do well. Perhaps even be in the top ten. But no baseball writer in ranking would consider anything but the major leagues. Ditto basketball. Best player in the Italian league, is he one of the best point guards. I have no clue until he's in the NBA. But, if you have the one-dimensional player who was the best center last year, got blown out as No. 1 this year, and compare him to a guy cut 3 years ago who now dominates a European league, well, you know where I'm going.

 

And maybe Werdum beats Lesnar. Anyone can win. Put the major league champions against the Japanese league champions, and will it be a clean sweep? Probably not.

 

And somehow Lesnar's world title defense over undefeated huge heavyweight Carwin who nobody had ever survived four minutes with before was really a loss while Bigfoot's prelim match win over journeyman light heavyweight Kyle taking the fight at the last minute wasn't really a loss when they were close to the same two fights.

Now you're being shallow.

 

You walk into a bar tonight and ask who has better fights, UFC or Strikeforce, and the answer will be, "What are you doing talking about Rick Martel from 20 years ago in an MMA discussion?"

 

So yeah, business is more important to them as well, you're just missing why.

They also don't care about who would win, Werdum or Lesnar.

 

They don't even know Werdum.

 

Affliction with Fedor and all the great heavyweights in Strikeforce did barely half of what WEC did on PPV, so that tells you what the average fan thinks or cares about in the heavyweight division.

 

And if training camps don't matter, why do fighters do them? Why do they complain about being short-shrifted on them? Who do promoters use them to give the advantage to the house fighter by making sure their opponents are called late, a tactic used forever in boxing and MMA?

 

I've spoken to heavyweights who make a point about elbows on the ground. In UFC, you don't want to be on your back having a big wrestler land elbows. In Strikeforce, being on your back as a heavyweight isn't as bad. That right there changes the sport.

 

Besides, give me a major league baseball rankings system that includes the Pacific Coast league players and Japanese league players. Even though AL & NL do have different rules, the teams play each other during the season and in post-season, so they are connected. UFC & Strikeforce have no such connection. Talent goes back and forth, just as talent in the major leagues sometimes goes back and forth to the Pacific Coast League or the Japanese Leagues and NFL marginal talent may wind up in the Canadian League. But you can't possibly rank them together.

 

 

With the purchase of Strikeforce this whole thing comes off even dumber.

I'd still like to point out the ridiculous thing that always seems to be missing from Meltzer's UFC pieces:

 

The UFC is owned by Las Vegas Casino Owners The Fertitas Brothers.

The UFC is based out of Las Vegas.

 

Las Vegas has no major sports franchise.

No NBA team, no MLB team, no NFL team. And they don't want to be there.

NFL spokesman Brian Mccarthy lobbying to prevent the expansion of legal sports betting outside of Nevada

 

Gambling on NFL games presents a threat to the integrity of our sport

Supposedly the NFL bars TV networks that broadcast its games from talking about "point spread". They are in a position to do so.

 

The UFC is run by casino operators and run out of Vegas. To complain about the use of an oddsmakers tool like independent ranking completely misses the point that the UFC's home is Vegas.