WON 2010

[sek69]

Yes, I also think Bill Apter is a no-brainer. Without question.

 

For the record, Dave Meltzer should also be a candidate for his own Hall of Fame.

 

I would expect that Bryan or whoever inherits the WON from Dave would probably put him in the HOF at the first opportunity. As much as we give him shit (deservedly more often than not), I don't think there are too many people ever who actually cared about wrestling more than Dave. His writing during the steroid trials probably would have won him awards if it was written for a mainstream newspaper, and that's why it was really sad when you could see there was a point when it was obvious things were never going to change and Dave was just like

"fuck it". You could chalk it up to youthful Dave thinking he could play some part in changing the world, but there was something heartbreaking over seeing the exact time someone's spirit was broken being commemorated in print.

 

sek, do you mean Dave was specifically heartbroken over the verdict in the trial or just a general "The business will never change" way?

 

 

A general "business will never change" way. He really poured his heart into his writing, and I think he figured if nothing else things would change since Vince came so close to going to jail for it. But when it was clear that the WWF saw his acquittal as a green light to keep doing what they've been doing, there was a noticeable change in his tone. Then like jdw mentioned, the late 90s turned into a grind for him, and I think that's what turned him into the guy we know today who sometimes gives the appearance of not even liking pro wrestling.

[Loss]

While we're on the subject, I do believe that the WWF believed that WCW was able to get a competitive advantage over them because their top stars were bigger and had better physiques. But does anyone here really, truly believe that bodies had anything to do with WCW overtaking the WWF?

[sek69]

I think it was due to most of the WWF braintrust being distracted by one scandal after another, and by the time they were able to put 100% of the focus back on wrestling, WCW had jumped ahead of them.

[jdw]

Apter left PWI et al for WOW a way back when WOW was around.

WOW... yeah, that was it:

 

WOW Magazine

 

Just 1999 to 2001. And then bought out by thepublished of the Apter Mags and promptly folded.

 

He now does some rare freelance for the Apter Mags, and also works for Bob.com.

 

Would this all sort of be like Takada losing to Gracie and (according to someone) embarassing his whole WON HOF credentials?

 

 

John

[jdw]

While we're on the subject, I do believe that the WWF believed that WCW was able to get a competitive advantage over them because their top stars were bigger and had better physiques. But does anyone here really, truly believe that bodies had anything to do with WCW overtaking the WWF?

Didn't have a fucking thing to do with it. Vince had to find something to blame other than his own shitty product. That's always been the case.

 

I also don't buy the "distracted" concept. They were "distracted" when putting Nash on top for a year?

 

The reality is that what worked in the 80s stopped working and the product didn't successfully move forward. Before anyone says that Hogan was 80s and ended up successful in WCW, things didn't really take off until *Heel* Hogan showed up... which was very *not* hot 80s. WCW and the WWF got hot when they moved away from trying to completely recreate the 80s, and also had product that "didn't suck" to a large number of fans.

 

The trial was July 1994. The major decline of the WWF came *after* that point. Again, Vince and others like to find reasons for the company's suckage that absolves their own genius from blame. The timeline for their reasons rarely matches up with the specific suckage.

 

John

[Strummer]

While we're on the subject, I do believe that the WWF believed that WCW was able to get a competitive advantage over them because their top stars were bigger and had better physiques. But does anyone here really, truly believe that bodies had anything to do with WCW overtaking the WWF?

 

wasn't that a Jerry McDevitt talking point for awhile?

[rovert]

Apter left PWI et al for WOW a way back when WOW was around.

WOW... yeah, that was it:

 

WOW Magazine

 

Just 1999 to 2001. And then bought out by thepublished of the Apter Mags and promptly folded.

 

He now does some rare freelance for the Apter Mags, and also works for Bob.com.

 

Would this all sort of be like Takada losing to Gracie and (according to someone) embarassing his whole WON HOF credentials?

 

 

John

 

He also does a column for the esteemed Fighting Spirit Magazine out in the Uk.

[jdw]

Takada had a central role for Hustle.

 

 

John

[tomk]

Has Apter been with PWI recently? Thought he left ages ago for some new start up mag that is also long gone.

 

If folks are serious about Apter (it's hard to tell from the comments), I wonder if there isn't someone in the generation before him that warrants going in first. Apter didn't invent wrestling mags. Frankly I'd like to see someone write up a history of wrestling mags so we know a little bit about them first. We all call them Apter Mags because he's the name hardcores associated with them, and he got a fair amount of face time relative to other guys in the mag business. But do we really know anything about that side of the business other than we picked read them at the newstand?

 

John

 

Wouldn't the history of wrestling mags pre-Apter just be the same as history of boxing mags (Police Gazette to Nat Fleisher to Stanley Weston).

I assume there also was some crossover in your early pulp detective mags too( again Police Gazette and Stanley Weston, I don't think I've ever read anything about Fleisher being involved in detective pulp).

 

If Moolah is going in, I could totally see making the argument that Stanley Weston probably did as much for creating modern American women's wrestling.

[jdw]

There were wrestling mags in the 60s and the 50s. The ones in the 50s may not have gotten much circulation, but the ones in the 60s were wide enough that Yohe got them out here in Los Angeles. Their content was pretty spot on for what the Apter mags did.

 

I don't know when Bill joined the Weston mags, but I'm not sold that there was any major "revolution" in the wrestling mag business after he joined. They were perhaps more prolific: Weston went to several "monthly" mags, I think at the peak it was four. In a sense they were publishing "weekly" just under different magazine names, and with the different mags featuring some of their own regular items (such as the centerfold bio in PWI while another one got Starcade from 1983 through most of the 80s) while sharing other items (the rankings were in pretty much the same format in each, and you could get "weekly" rankings if you got all the mags). I'm not sure how regularly the ones in the 60s published, or if anyone else employed the same method of publishing weekly. I suspect that most of the wrestling mag published had multiple titles.

 

We also don't know how much of a force Weston was, or Bill, or the other people involved in it were. Dave may have dealt with Bill a bit... though I'm not sure if any of us know the depth or scope of his role there. I know that when I dealt with the PWI guys for one of their yearbooks, it wasn't with Bill at all but Stu Sacks as I recall. And he was a bit smarter and more reasonable that I think us smart fans would have thought. Even that Dean Malenko thing had some thought behind it, though it probably didn't help Dean much within the company.

 

This

[KrisZ]

What about Norman Kreitzer as a candidate

[rovert]

Missy Hyatt's write up on Bill Apter

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/17156/

 

I would cut and paste but you can read her stance on that at the bottom of the article. Say what you want but Missy delivers the goods HOF season.

[sek69]

The timing of that was uncanny, it's as if Missy lurks here or something.

 

She's absolutely right about Apter of course, especially the point about making dying territories appear better than they actually were.

[khawk20]

Missy Hyatt's write up on Bill Apter

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/17156/

 

I would cut and paste but you can read her stance on that at the bottom of the article. Say what you want but Missy delivers the goods HOF season.

Even a fledging promotion like the AWA in the late 1980’s

 

 

...seriously, Apter is/was as recognizable as the wrestlers he covered to those of us that grew up with his magazines.

 

His "What's Happening" columns in the various mags were the highlight for probably all of us, in the age before results and everything else was instantly accessible.

 

I'd have no issues voting him in.

[goodhelmet]

The risqué articles & pictorials provided a ton of T & A to a ton of wrestling fans that were too young for Playboy.

What is she talking about? These are before my time.

[Johnny Sorrow]

The risqué articles & pictorials provided a ton of T & A to a ton of wrestling fans that were too young for Playboy.

What is she talking about? These are before my time.

 

I figure she's talking about Apartment Wrestling and the occassional pic of Fallen Angel.

[rovert]

I don’t know if you guys listen to Ringside Rap, I do depending on the guest. This week the normal host Rich Tate was sick so it is just Mike Sempervive and Les Thatcher who have awesome chemistry as a twosome discussing the HOF. Nothing ground breaking but a real pleasant listen.

http://blogtalkradio.com/psp/2010/09/09/ringside-rap.mp3

[shoe]

I thought Mike Sempervive made a good showing for himself when it came to knowing all the players and reasoning behind his votes. Thatcher's argument of Misterio, Jericho not going in because they are still working a full schedule to me is a valid argument on why they shouldn't go in yet. Does Thatcher even vote because he seemed like he doesn't get one which I would find shocking, then again maybe he just didn't want people to think he got a vote. Like Cabana's HOF interview with Bix was a mixed bag. I dug how he knew the British players, but then would shake my head behind his reasoning to exclude the Rock N Roll Express.Maybe Colt meant it as a joke, if that's the case then make a real reason why you are excluding them off your ballot. I feel Murdoch is a HOF pick on his work, drew well in a lot of different regions, and got over working a lot of different styles up and down the card. As someone who has a vote like Cabana I would feel compelled to look at a guys work who is close to getting in like a Murdoch. Heck, even Les Thatcher compared Cabana to Murdoch.I personally don't see it, but if it bears being mentioned if I was Cabana I would view more of his work and lift some of his schtick. Either way I liked both podcasts that I have listened to from people who get votes. If anyone knows of others please point them out.

[kjh]

From the sounds of things Dave is working on several bios - some of which will appear at a later date, so expect quite a few people to be inducted this year.

[rovert]

Is it ok to talk about the results here? Just that there is no spoiler tag function

[KrisZ]

I wonder how much it heart Dave's heart to bury the Chael Sonnen story so low in the WON

[rovert]

I wonder how much it heart Dave's heart to bury the Chael Sonnen story so low in the WON

Im sure Chael will win Most Pro Wrestling in the Year End Awards and Dave will devote a double issue to him.

[Al]

Is it ok to talk about the results here? Just that there is no spoiler tag function

I'd think anyone who opens a thread titled "WON 2010" has a reasonable expectation that they might see the inductees. They are listed on wikipedia anyway.

[KrisZ]

It was disappointing anyway since the inductees are Jericho, Misterio, & Wladek Zbyszko. 3 bios being a lot for Dave to write is something else these days.

[rovert]

Is it ok to talk about the results here? Just that there is no spoiler tag function

I'd think anyone who opens a thread titled "WON 2010" has a reasonable expectation that they might see the inductees. They are listed on wikipedia anyway.

 

Aye just that some people take the issue seriously and look forward to it.

 

Steve Williams came SO close. Does anyone think Dave should have put him in or should he be a total stickler here?

 

My major disappointment was that Kent Walton didn’t get in despite being pimped as a slam dunk candidate.

 

Rey & Jericho going in together is interesting considering the traditional reluctance of voting active performs.