WCW ongoing thread

[tomk]

Not sure if it was intentional or not, but I always thought it worked.

It worked better than York's "hostess at steakhouse" outfits being sold as "corporate woman".

 

If you do a 91 yearbook, I hope you find a way to put on the stuff where Budro wants to join the Foundation. His comic failed attempts to turn corporate provide a nice contrast with the actual sell outs.

[Victator]

It works overall. Actually they might of been going for that and the TV botched it. I find it hilarious Buddy is rejected when they accept Tommy Rich.

[El-P]

It worked better than York's "hostess at steakhouse" outfits being sold as "corporate woman".

You don't say. They totally didn't understand the sex appeal potential of Terry Boatright in a "working girl" outifit. Missed opportunity. Plus, classy sexy girl + ugly guys always works (see Woman + Sandman).

Baffling how they gave Rotunda a brand new gimmick with actual thoughts behind it (as opposed with the dozens people thrown on TV since the summer), with promos and videos to introduce the gimmick, as they already decided they would probably not keep the guy around. WCW...

[El-P]

And with the "Greed is good" motto and Ross calling Rotunda the "Gordon Gekko of wrestling", WCW was only 3 years behind as far as pop culture goes, and still deeply rooted in the glorious "money years" 80's. Nice try though.

[MikeCampbell]

It works overall. Actually they might of been going for that and the TV botched it. I find it hilarious Buddy is rejected when they accept Tommy Rich.

What would Landell have been called, had he joined? Bud Landell? William Landell?

[Victator]

Budrick

[ohtani's jacket]

Dustin Rhodes vs. The Barbarian, WCW Saturday Night 11/14/92

 

Here we go, I've been wanting to see this ever since Loss pimped it a few years ago, but it never surfaced during the Smarkschoice WCW poll. Every few months, I check to see whether someone has put it on youtube or dailymotion and finally I hit pay dirt. That's a long wait in proportion to how short the match is, but it was every bit as good as I'd hoped it would be. For a sub-10 minute match they pack a lot into it, but never in a way that rushes things. There's simply an urgency to it because Dustin is hurt. It's a great example of selling well and not breaking character even in a minor bout. The urgency really helps the finish as well, which is a nice bit of booking against the run of play. Satisfying match.

[Chess Knight]

http://prograps.blogspot.com/

 

Most of what I've wrote about in here is WCW stuff. Pardon the spelling errors because I'm a fast and quite lousy typer.

[artDDP]

And with the "Greed is good" motto and Ross calling Rotunda the "Gordon Gekko of wrestling", WCW was only 3 years behind as far as pop culture goes, and still deeply rooted in the glorious "money years" 80's. Nice try though.

I never understood pushing wrestlers as financial savants when you rarely ever heard about their supposed wealth beyond the confines of pro wrestling telecasts. The WWF at least got Ted DiBiase on "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" to help sell the character.

[El-P]

I'm going through some Power Hour of 1990, and damn, Tim Horner is the least charismatic good worker I've ever seen. He makes Dean Malenko looks like Randy Savage. It's too bad, because he's a real good mechanic, much better than pushed guys like Zenk, but he just has zero facial expressions. This guy should have gone in Japan, he would have got through by strictly work.

[jdw]

Yeah, I always felt bad for Tim. Really solid, but had issues because he was so bland.

 

John

[Cox]

I'm going through some Power Hour of 1990, and damn, Tim Horner is the least charismatic good worker I've ever seen. He makes Dean Malenko looks like Randy Savage. It's too bad, because he's a real good mechanic, much better than pushed guys like Zenk, but he just has zero facial expressions. This guy should have gone in Japan, he would have got through by strictly work.

If you think Tim Horner, Bland Low Card Guy is bad, just try to watch the period where he was main eventing in Smoky Mountain. They tried every trick in the book to get him over, and he was still colorless Timmy Horner.

[El-P]

I actually thought about that, I know Cornette pushed him pretty hard in Smokey. I was really wondering how that went.

 

Well, I guess he's the kind of guy that would really gain from working under a hood. Give him a character he can work with only via body language, and he'll be fine and no one will see how bland he really is. What ? Star Blazer you say ? Ok, that was a fail.

[shoe]

He did a Ninja gimmick in SMW that was a fail. Every turn is SMW he came across bland. Even in some angles that were bad ass with DWB and Ron Wright he lessened the angle. So many other pieces of talent would have gotten over huge with the angle. The only time to me in SMW that he came across as a main eventer was when he had a street fight with DWB. The match was so great he came across as the #1 guy. Still he was a good worker who I loved see work the Horseman in the 80's in studio bouts.

[Cox]

I mean, Cornette REALLY tried to make him a main eventer. First, they did injury angles in back to back weeks where first, DWB hung him from the corner post, and then the following week where DWB hit him with a beer bottle. Then, after making him sympathetic didn't work, they had DWB turn into a cowardly wuss, running from Horner every time he saw Horner coming like he was the baddest guy on the planet or something. I mean, I've always liked Horner, but he just did not work as anything but a low card job guy type, because he couldn't project a personality at all.

[El-P]

First show of 1991. They spend a good amount of time explaining the audience that Brian Pillman would face Rip Rogers in a match where the pinfall don't count during the 5 first minutes. because Rip Rogers is some kind of "marathon man". Well, 5 minutes, some marathon. But anyway. They do a Rogers promo explaining the reason behind the stipulation. The in-ring announcer actually tells it again before the beginning of the match. Match begins, like 30 seconds into it, tackle, Pillman goes for a pin (because it's "reflex") and... the referee gets down and count. Ross & Caudle absolutely no-sell it. And they do multiple pinfall attempts while the timekeeper announces each pasisng minutes during which they are *not supposed to go for pinfalls*. What a bunch of dumbfucks. Pillman, Rogers, and especially the ref Mike Atkins. Shitty match to boot. Man. WCW for you.

[Loss]

You do realize that many times in wrestling match with special stipulations, a wrestler will do something that "doesn't count" out of instinct, right? It's a way of getting over the stipulation. Pillman/Rogers I thought was a pretty fabulous match, with a hot Center Stage crowd and a great daredevil dive from Pillman. It's not perfect -- I think they were trying to do spot where Rogers would have won at the five-minute mark had he kept his mouth shut, but they botched it. But that's really the only flaw I found in this.

[El-P]

You do realize that many times in wrestling match with special stipulations, a wrestler will do something that "doesn't count" out of instinct, right? It's a way of getting over the stipulation.

In good a wrestling match yes.

It was not the case here, they just ignored it. I blame the ref for getting down to count the pinfall attempt the first time. After that big of a fuck up, it was doomed anyway. But they probably should have been smart enough to not go for tons of pinfalls during the first five minutes while Ross and Caudle had to no-sell every attempt of it despite what was clearly happening in the ring. It was embarrassing to watch. Just retarded.

 

Pillman/Rogers I thought was a pretty fabulous match, with a hot Center Stage crowd and a great daredevil dive from Pillman. It's not perfect -- I think they were trying to do spot where Rogers would have won at the five-minute mark had he kept his mouth shut, but they botched it. But that's really the only flaw I found in this.

Really ? I thought it was pretty sloppy actually, with Rogers not looking good at all. Pillman's dive was the highlight, sure, but apart from that...

 

Terry Taylor vs Arn Anderson on the same show was a super solid match however, and I'm digging the slow Terry Taylor heel turn.

[Tim Evans]

Isn't that Rogers/Pillman match the match that Wild Pegasus had as the number 1 WCW match of all time?

[Dylan Waco]

no i believe that was Taylor v. Rogers

[Mad Dog]

I'm going through some Power Hour of 1990, and damn, Tim Horner is the least charismatic good worker I've ever seen. He makes Dean Malenko looks like Randy Savage. It's too bad, because he's a real good mechanic, much better than pushed guys like Zenk, but he just has zero facial expressions. This guy should have gone in Japan, he would have got through by strictly work.

If you think Tim Horner, Bland Low Card Guy is bad, just try to watch the period where he was main eventing in Smoky Mountain. They tried every trick in the book to get him over, and he was still colorless Timmy Horner.

 

They had him saving kittens from trees and helping old ladies across the street in vintages too. He got lots of promo time too. He'd do all the talking and have several guys standing around him that could talk better. He really is a low point of early SMW.

[Kronos]

Flair vs Vader, Starrcade 1993

One thing about Flair: He always seems to take his dirtiest player tricks and use them even when he is the underdog Face, and the crowd doesn't care, do they? In this match, he uses chairs, and he even bites Vader right in front of the ref. No one cares? Also, Flair's overseling has become comical to me. I that he's playing to the noseleed seats, but it'sust kind of silly.

Very slow start to this match. Vader dominates for almost 10 min. If I am Flair, why would I ever seek to tie up when I know it's going to end up with me being in a painful wrist/knuckle lock - as happens twice in the first few minutes? The comebacks Flair does make are very pleasing to the otherwise mellow crowd.

Vader gets major pioints for setting up Flair's comeback. He's so physically dominant that it's clear Flair is doing something magical in just chiopping him to the mat.

The ending sequence is terrific and almost redeems what I find to be a more than competent but generally dull match. Vader missing the moonsault and then getting headbutted by Race from the top rope got me as excited as the crowd. But it was too little too late to allow for a high rating.

[El-P]

Well, I actually never realized Flair regained the title in 91 on a house show. What a horrible way to erase 6 months of booking after a totally failed Sting title reign. Couldn't they at least book an angle for the Clash ? At the same time, I guess they realized Sting was doomed as far as being the Man was for the time, and they had to move onto other things, which would end up being nothing actually with Flair leaving with the belt.

The finish of the Flair vs Sting match is another pet peeve of mine as far as Flair goes, sometimes the finish of his matches are just incredibly weak for world title matches, hell title changes. Here we get the infamous "Flair and his opponent bang their head, Flair rebound on the ropes and magically falls onto his opponent, and win the match despite being knocked out". While Will talked about the cross body being a game ender, which I don't buy for a second, I have actually seen Flair win several matches that particular lame way (I remember a Kerry match too), and I know that when Flair and whoever he faces bang their head while near the ropes, Flair usually wins. So I guess I'll call "Flair banging his head and falling accidently on his opponent" a game ender. I hate that finish.

The best stuff on WCW during January 1991 was the Paul E. vs Missy feud, with fun little slapping and great Paul E. promos.

[NintendoLogic]

Flair vs Vader, Starrcade 1993

One thing about Flair: He always seems to take his dirtiest player tricks and use them even when he is the underdog Face, and the crowd doesn't care, do they? In this match, he uses chairs, and he even bites Vader right in front of the ref. No one cares?

Well, the match was in Charlotte.

[Kronos]

5491940[/url]']

5491929[/url]' date='Jan 8 2012, 11:58 AM']Flair vs Vader, Starrcade 1993

One thing about Flair: He always seems to take his dirtiest player tricks and use them even when he is the underdog Face, and the crowd doesn't care, do they? In this match, he uses chairs, and he even bites Vader right in front of the ref. No one cares?

Well, the match was in Charlotte.

 

 

Truth. I guess I just have distaste for the Face who gets cheered for cheating.