WON Awards for 2011

[Victator]

Kane was awesome this year. It took Edge to drag him down.

[KrisZ]

How is anyone going to vote for Superstars as Best TV Show when neither Bryan or Dave watch it and dismiss it publicly as jobber TV.

[Dylan Waco]

Superstars has too much actual wrestling to be considered a good wrestling show.

[Wahoos Leg]

Superstars has too much actual wrestling to be considered a good wrestling show.

My biggest gripe with Superstars is, as is the case with most WWE product, the repetitive matchups.

 

Three straight weeks of some permutation of Chris Masters vs. Curt Hawkins is about one week too many. Especially when Hawkins jobs every single week. If you're going to do a series, give me a little sizzle or something.

[tomk]

Silkin for promoter of the year is beyond ridiculous. He's a ticket scalper with little substantive influence on the direction of the company, which is not financially successful, albeit enjoyed by its fans and the biggest indy in the country. Vince is worth hundreds of millions of dollars, still making lots of money, is a wrestling genius even if he's lost his mind, and WWE still has plenty of high quality stuff going on.

Silkin came in third. Dana White is still the promoter of the year from now through foreseeable future.

 

As to substantive influence, wasn't it Silkin's love of bears that led to the expulsion of Sapolsky.

 

And really this guy is a ticket scalper vs this guy is worth millions...is a silly argument. My sense is that Ted Turner was worth more than Vince, Choshu and Baba comibined. Should he have won promoter every year?

 

 

Honestly, there was far less of the usual Meltzer griping and complaining about voters "getting things wrong."

[jdw]

In the write up for MOTY Meltz hilariously sticks up for Tyler Black vs. Davey Richards, saying that even though HBK/Taker won, that Black/Richards won "the moral victory", because it did well to get the number of votes it did since more people saw the Mania match.

I guess Sabu that makes the WON Moral Victory Wrestler Of The Year in 1994 because so many ECW Fans tried to stuff the ballot box that he damn near beat out Kawada in the closest WOTY vote ever.

 

Or maybe Kawada is still Dave's "Thank God He Barley Won This Thing Because It Would Have Been Fucking Embarassing For The Next 30 Years If Sabu Was Listed" Wrestler Of The Year for 1994.

 

 

 

Wow... I saw the #5 match of the year live. I'm trying to figure out what that means.

That you're a lucky SOB. I liked it best of what I've seen of the year. How'd you like it?

 

I thought it was a good match, pretty entertaining. We saw three last year that were in the same general level: Hero-Tozawa, Generico-Ricochet and Steen-Tozawa. Not sure which I liked the best. The Generico match probably played the best as it gave the fans the best finish while the other two had the underdog win.

 

John

[Bix]

Silkin for promoter of the year is beyond ridiculous. He's a ticket scalper with little substantive influence on the direction of the company, which is not financially successful, albeit enjoyed by its fans and the biggest indy in the country. Vince is worth hundreds of millions of dollars, still making lots of money, is a wrestling genius even if he's lost his mind, and WWE still has plenty of high quality stuff going on.

Silkin came in third. Dana White is still the promoter of the year from now through foreseeable future.

 

As to substantive influence, wasn't it Silkin's love of bears that led to the expulsion of Sapolsky.

 

And really this guy is a ticket scalper vs this guy is worth millions...is a silly argument. My sense is that Ted Turner was worth more than Vince, Choshu and Baba comibined. Should he have won promoter every year?

Ted Turner wasn't a promoter in any real sense of the word the way it's always been used.

 

Honestly, there was far less of the usual Meltzer griping and complaining about voters "getting things wrong."

Yes, and that's a good thing.

[Bix]

Keep in mind that this is me restraining myself from calling people names.

[rovert]

Us Western Europeans wont take this sitting down, Bix

[Bix]

I felt that "the UK and Ireland" was too cumbersome.

 

But seriously why do (you and?) your fellow...Europeans love current Japanese wrestling so much?

[Log]

It's like it's 2004 in Europe. Except the annoying chanting thing came sooner.

[Bix]

Ok, those two have gone way too far. Per WOR, Evans-Rampage is now ONE OF THE GREATEST FEUDS OF ALL TIME and Dave even said that he looked through the list of previous feud of the year winners and he couldn't find one better. A list that starts with Bruno Sammartino vs Larry Zbyszko.

[kjh]

But seriously why do (you and?) your fellow...Europeans love current Japanese wrestling so much?

I guess it has something to do with satellite TV exposure on The Wrestling Channel? I must be ahead of the European curve as my interest peaked in 2005/2006.

[Dylan Waco]

Hack Myers v. J.T. Smith is a better wrestling feud than Evans v. Rampage - and I like Evans and Rampage.

[Johnny Sorrow]

So will GSP vs Koschek suffer or benefit from "breaking kayfabe" in the next Awards?

[El-P]

All this mixing of UFC and pro-wrestling makes me crazy. I can't wait until the presidential course here in 2012, because we'll get some awesome pro-wrestling promos. Jean-Luc Mélanchon is alreay aiming at best heel...

[rovert]

I felt that "the UK and Ireland" was too cumbersome.

 

But seriously why do (you and?) your fellow...Europeans love current Japanese wrestling so much?

Why do you find it "inexplicable" is another question? I dont know why it gets the super duper mega hate on here to be honest.

 

To answer your question it is hard to pin down and isolate essentially we got our shit 10-15 years But Keith might be right with the TWC thing (allowing people to get exposed to Puro and ROH at a younger more impressible age), to me what also plays into it is that Japanese wrestling up until that point (pre-mass broadband internet roll out) was fairly hard to get access wise and very expensive, there is also a demographic component in my opinion linked into that to all that too (most people my age got it drilled into our heads how cool and "exotic" the Japan scene was in the mid/late 1990s by only reading about it in Powerslam so the seed was sown at an early age) and finally hey how about there are people actually like a style that is different from what you like, crazy I know. Worst taste in Wrestling in the world and that.

[Matt D]

I felt that "the UK and Ireland" was too cumbersome.

 

But seriously why do (you and?) your fellow...Europeans love current Japanese wrestling so much?

 

Whenever I disagree with a Brit about anything, I just shake my head sadly and blame Maggie Thatcher. I doubt that applies here though.

[KB8]

I felt that "the UK and Ireland" was too cumbersome.

 

But seriously why do (you and?) your fellow...Europeans love current Japanese wrestling so much?

Can't speak for the rest of us (rovert's post being a good example of why), but for the most part I haven't been able to stomach Japanese wrestling for the last couple years. There are guys who I still make a point of watching from time to time (Kanemoto, Takayama, Ishikawa... there's probably a few others that I'm fogetting), but I really haven't been interested in watching it with any degree of regularity since about 2007 (which is about the time it started hitting the skids for me personally).

 

Most of my interest in current wrestling sits with the lucha stuff on youtube and some WWE now and again.

[El-P]

I love how these days enjoying japanese wrestling has become the nadir of wrestling fandom. How times change. I haven't seen anything in about two years, but last time I checked, it was perfectly fine and good for 00's wrestling.

[Loss]

I love how these days enjoying japanese wrestling has become the nadir of wrestling fandom. How times change. I haven't seen anything in about two years, but last time I checked, it was perfectly fine and good for 00's wrestling.

Rapid forearm trading that is overdone and never sold just completely kills it for me.

[El-P]

I love how these days enjoying japanese wrestling has become the nadir of wrestling fandom. How times change. I haven't seen anything in about two years, but last time I checked, it was perfectly fine and good for 00's wrestling.

Rapid forearm trading that is overdone and never sold just completely kills it for me.

 

Well, *that* was driving me kinda crazy too to be honest. Hopefully it will go away.

[smkelly]

I love how these days enjoying japanese wrestling has become the nadir of wrestling fandom. How times change. I haven't seen anything in about two years, but last time I checked, it was perfectly fine and good for 00's wrestling.

Rapid forearm trading that is overdone and never sold just completely kills it for me.

 

Some matches I have watched lately that are like that:

 

Shuji Kondo vs. Naomichi Marufuji (AJ 11/3/08)

This match is insane. They work a heavyweight like style and absolutely kill each other with harder than normal strikes, and big bumps & bombs. I think this might be their first match together, but they were working as if they were Kobashi & Misawa. Kobashi fought Misawa throughout the 1990s in singles matches. If you watch each match (in order) you can see the evolution of their matches – what moves aren’t winning matches anymore, new strategies, etc. They had an entire decade to get to the point of, “Okay, this is getting a little silly,” whereas Kondo/Marufuji doesn’t have that luxury, but worked this match like 6-11-99 and without the selling or storytelling Misawa/Kobashi provided, which was considerably weaker than their mega 97-98 matches.

 

Kondo/Marufuji just killed each other instead of building a reliable feud over a couple of years. My complaint here is how can they top this performance? I mean, the insanity is already in epic proportions, so they’ll have to increase their effort, which will likely be the end of one (if not both) of their careers, to top their last performance. The older I get, the more I care about the health of the men (and women) who entertain me.

 

For first time viewers (fans who haven't seen stuff like this) this match would probably rock their worlds, but I have been watching puro since 2002 (maybe even 2001) and I am finding it harder and harder to truly enjoy, so I can't imagine someone who has been watching since the 80s or earlier. Hell, someone who started watching puro in the 70s must have felt the same way about the 1990s.

 

Current puro (American Indies as well) is an example of the “can you top this” mentality that is plaguing all forms of wrestling.

 

Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama (NOAH 7/10/04)

I used to rate this at 5*. It might still be that, but the bumps in this match are ridiculous, man. Kobashi was 37, but taking bumps a 20 year old Necro Butcher would take. Jun was 35 (I think) and takes some horrible bumps as well, but Kobashi, always being the showman, takes even harder bumps, like the exploder from the top-rope to the floor. What kills this match is the poor pacing. They do killer spots, but lack the timing and pacing to make them seem important to do in the first place. I don’t think they should have done them to begin with – it reminds me of that TNA cage match in 07 where Styles goes insane and does some kind of dangerous stunt off the cage to the floor, or Jack Evan’s double-backflips off cages. It is just setting the groundwork for bigger and more dangerous (and probably deadly) spots and bumps for the future generations to attempt to beat.

 

It’s like the X-Games, motocross, skateboarding, etc. What was huge in the 90s is now a warm-up maneuver. There will come a time where something is so impossible that it cannot be broken or outdone, and I fear that glass ceiling will claim the lives of many athletes and professional wrestlers alike.

 

I watched the Bloodsport ECW set last night, and Rocco Rock's promo stuck with me. He said he wouldn't be jumping off platforms to crash through two tables unless the fans made him do it. It made me feel bad as a fan.

 

Just my two cents, man.

[Sean Liska]

For first time viewers (fans who haven't seen stuff like this) this match would probably rock their worlds, but I have been watching puro since 2002 (maybe even 2001) and I am finding it harder and harder to truly enjoy, so I can't imagine someone who has been watching since the 80s or earlier. Hell, someone who started watching puro in the 70s must have felt the same way about the 1990s.

No, I don't think so. I would guess that most people enjoyed the way the puro style evolved from the 70s to the 90s, especially in regards to All Japan. It's not that there's a limit to how much puro someone can enjoy, it's just that the style has turned to crap over the past decade. There isn't nearly as much storytelling and the reliance on big bumps and no-sold strike exchanges isn't compelling. Puro reminds me of a bad ECW show at times with the lengths people have to go to pop the crowds, like with the Kobashi-Akiyama match you mentioned.

[Bix]

Why do you find it "inexplicable" is another question? I dont know why it gets the super duper mega hate on here to be honest.

 

To answer your question it is hard to pin down and isolate essentially we got our shit 10-15 years But Keith might be right with the TWC thing (allowing people to get exposed to Puro and ROH at a younger more impressible age), to me what also plays into it is that Japanese wrestling up until that point (pre-mass broadband internet roll out) was fairly hard to get access wise and very expensive, there is also a demographic component in my opinion linked into that to all that too (most people my age got it drilled into our heads how cool and "exotic" the Japan scene was in the mid/late 1990s by only reading about it in Powerslam so the seed was sown at an early age) and finally hey how about there are people actually like a style that is different from what you like, crazy I know. Worst taste in Wrestling in the world and that.

"Inexplicable" because they have the same access to the older stuff, which is seemingly going ignored much of the time (as is other stuff like current Lucha Libre), and because you have stuff like Alan being obsessively passionate (registering at other forums to beg people to vote up Dragon Gate matches in the best of the year threads in Purotopia at DVDVR). No hate, not a taste issue (well, it is for Dragon Gate, but a lot of that is that I could never get why someone could be a hardcore follower of a promotion where they couldn't speak the language and the matches were so repetitive), just don't quite get it. If you go to Purotopia, a hell of a lot of the posters are from the UK and Ireland, and so are a lot of the WO/F4W website subscribers. There was a very noticeable change in the awards once the WON was added to the site. I've enjoyed the recent Japanese stuff I've seen just fine, but I don't get the rabidness for it past the general concept of high quality videos of Japanese wrestling being available so quickly now. Plus, wasn't Japanese wrestling was gone from TWC/Fight a long time before the current "boom," all while the footage was still readily available online? It seems like a lot of people latched onto Alan in that respect. Plus, NJPW Classics and CMLL were on TWC, so why isn't the older "exotic" stuff and Mexican stuff being watched and pimped by the same people?

 

 

For first time viewers (fans who haven't seen stuff like this) this match would probably rock their worlds, but I have been watching puro since 2002 (maybe even 2001) and I am finding it harder and harder to truly enjoy, so I can't imagine someone who has been watching since the 80s or earlier. Hell, someone who started watching puro in the 70s must have felt the same way about the 1990s.

No, I don't think so. I would guess that most people enjoyed the way the puro style evolved from the 70s to the 90s, especially in regards to All Japan. It's not that there's a limit to how much puro someone can enjoy, it's just that the style has turned to crap over the past decade. There isn't nearly as much storytelling and the reliance on big bumps and no-sold strike exchanges isn't compelling. Puro reminds me of a bad ECW show at times with the lengths people have to go to pop the crowds, like with the Kobashi-Akiyama match you mentioned.

 

That too, to varying degrees.