Loss Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Talk about it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 I must warn you all, I am about to start banging the Riki Choshu drum really loud. He has no case for GOAT, so I don't want to overstate his case. But I do think he compares very favorably to next-tier guys like Vader and Steamboat. This is a pretty tremendous spectacle. I really group Tenryu, Choshu and Hashimoto together as far as style -- basic, hard-hitting offense that translates well to big shows and main events. The tempers flaring stuff is great. This match just feels really huge, which is a testament to both guys. Four days into the year, the best match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 I watched this just a few weeks ago, for either the second or third time, and don't get the love for this at all. Sloppy, unfocused, and it drags quite a bit. The rematch blows it away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benj Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Never clicked for me, probably have to rewatch at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Just what a Dome Show match is supposed to be. Two guys beating the hell out of each other, nothing fancy, but damn it works. (Fun facts : Tenryu screwed up way more things in that match that Ultimo did earlier in the night, and while Ultimo actually did way more impressive stuff afterward and totally got back into the mood (and along with Liger got the crowd into a frenzy), Tenryu's screwing up over and over ended up totally deflating the crowd at points, especially with that awful powerbomb spot which they had to re-do as it was the finish. It sure looks as if they weren't on the same page at all at times, but Tenryu looked pretty *bad* at points here while Choshu was the one bringing it. Yep, not a strong showing for Tenryu at all and certainly both Ultimo vs Liger & Muta vs Chono were much better matches, hell I enjoyed Hellraisers vs Steiners a lot more too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Austin Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Oh my god, the Tenryu love from the 1996 set has certainly carried over here already. I loved this, such passion, fire and hatred. Just a great spectacle. More! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB8 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Also really dug this. Execution (or bad execution, rather) never really bothers me, but the first big transition being a badly whiffed lariat was a little jarring even to me, so I can totally see someone siding with Ditch and thinking the sloppiness hurt it (the lariat wasn't the only instance of it). But they just beat the living shit out of each other for the most part and a fucking routine stomp here would've been the nastiest spot in most other matches. Whole thing just felt real gritty and nasty, so something like Tenryu losing his grip on a powerbomb attempt felt more like a result of being cracked in the head a bunch of times rather than an outright botch (although I'm not suggesting the flubbed powerbomb was intentional in order to further the story...not that I was bothered either way). Tenryu's short punts to the face are the best. What's the date for the rematch, Ditch (or anyone)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Rematch was April 6. It's on the set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB8 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Yeah, noticed that not long after I asked. I guess one tends to miss simple things like that when looking at a list for 100+ hours of footage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Rematch was 4/6/93 and is also on the set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 The rematch is on the 6th of April the year of our lord 1996. It has a venerated place on the set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Franklin Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I couldn't get into this. I can see the appeal, however the sloppiness took me out of the match, which is unusual for me as I can usually look past execution. I know that both men will impress me greatly further into the set, but this just didn't do it for me. I felt that the finish was flat, and I think the crowd thought the same as it didn't get the reaction you would hope for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Take away some of the muffed spots this was fun. Just 2 hosses that beat the crap out of each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Liked this one a lot more then the re-match, has a better build, more fire, passion & felt like more of a big match fight. The 4/6 bout has a great finishing stretch but was pretty lackluster for the first 2/3 of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenjo Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Two greats of the 80's collide in this interpromotional battle. Despite being in the Dome it had heat. There was a strong rivalry and they paced it smartly, resulting in a big match feel. Choshu had a slight advantage through much of the match until it turned at the end. It had the platform to jump from good to very good level, but there was a few sloppy moments down the stretch as age caught up with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ridge Posted June 22, 2013 Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 It wasn’t pretty and some stuff looked off but they were taking their lumps against each other. They were also connecting well with the Dome crowd. Big tease on Tenryu’s powerbomb and then the final execution ended up being poor. Took another attempt to push Choshu away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Some of the whiffs were too jarring to ignore (like that lariat), some like the power bomb just looked like a natural struggle. A fight like this SHOULDN'T look pretty. That said, I'm somewhere in-between Loss and Ditch on this. They get mucho credit for getting a Dome crowd to be as loud as they were, but as a spectacle and a match I actually liked the tag bout better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Stalling early but they quickly trade strikes to a hotter than usual Tokyo Dome crowd. Tenryu sells a lariat that completely missed, but its Tenryu vs. Choshu so we'll cut them some slack at this juncture. Choshu seemed to work on top most of the way. Tenryu ducks an attack in the corner and fires back with kicks and knees. While his strikes may not be the most impactful or have the greatest windup, his offense is just so much more stiff and deliberate than most. Love Tenryu struggling for the power bomb, which is a no go the first time, so he comes back with the superplex and his big elbow before eventually hitting it but it leaves him wiped as well. He's able to recover though and hit another power bomb for the win. A clean and decisive win on this night, yet there was enough back and forth that you know nothing has really been decided. It seems like Inoki challenges Tenryu afterwards but I don't know if that was actually the case at this time. Tenryu is really uniquely great. I enjoyed him on the 80s set but I usually didn't think he was the best wrestler in most matches, even if he was part of a few of my favorites from the decade. This Tenryu feels completely different, as he looks and carries himself as a lot older and more mature, much slower and more deliberate. Starting to finally get why his name is raised in GOAT circles. **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Clunky yes, but it fit the narrative of this big beefy fight. This is certainly a match I wouldn't have liked a few years ago when I highly valued execution. Even today, it still kind of prevented this from reaching the great level but as it was, it was a really good main event dome style match. Tenryu is a bad ass outsider that isn't unwilling to step right into the enemy turf and punch its chief in the mouth. Admirable stuff and the capper to an overall weird show for me that I enjoyed even if everything didn't exactly work. (***3/4) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 It's not just the sloppy execution that hurts this match. Neither one these guys seem to be on the same page at all. I've seen around 16 of the Tenryu vs NJPW matches and this is by far the worst. Most of those matches were very good to great and this was just crap. For whatever reason, these guys just weren't clicking. Really disappointing match. These guys will more than make up for it over the next couple of months though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 They definitely weren't on the same page but I thought the intensity and the fact this didn't feel like they were completely clicking, along with their impeccable timing and knowing just how long and when to sell made this something special. I can certainly see someone coming at at this and taking issue with the fact that they were going in different directions. It just didn't make me enjoy it any less. This is also a great reminder that as I wrap up the first quarter of the '94 Yearbook I need to get back to posting about this one. Maybe I'll do that if I watch any football today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 I thought this was pretty good to begin with as it was two hosses fighting and scrapping for a takedown, which is exactly how a match of this sort should be worked, but it all went downhill when Tenryu sold that lariat. It's easier said that done, but he should have played it like he avoided the move by ducking out of the way. As soon as Choshu took over, the match became a Choshu-style match in the worst sense of the term. Nearfalls and teased finishes are great, but when that's all of you've got things tend to drag. And to make matters worse, Tenryu was having a poor night on the offensive end. His execution issues are unfortunately the predominant image I have of him, and not that awesome worker from the Koshinaka match, and here they raised their ugly head. The finish was also weak. It wasn't so much because he had to repeat the powerbomb, as you could forgive the first one not being executed properly, but rather that the powerbomb put Choshu away at all. That didn't seem at all well built to. Pretty stark contrast between this and the Koshinaka bout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliott Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 I wasn't sure where to ask this, but the questions popped up in my head watching this match so I figured I'd ask it here. Did the New Japan commentators talk about Choshu and Tenryu wrestling in All Japan in the 80s during this feud? Was Tenryu's All Japan history played up during the course of the feud or was he just presented as invading WAR Ace? I know all of the fans knew about the history but I'm wondering if it was freely talked about on commentary. Same thing when Vader went to All Japan in the late 90s. Did they talk about his history in New Japan and UWFi or was it a "Oh shit its Vader. We know who that is. What's he doing here?" kinda thing? We all talk about All Japan as an isolationist promotion in terms of not working with other promotions. Were they like 80s WWF where they refused to acknowledge wrestling outside of All Japan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 I don't think they ducked it. After all, recall the announcers going batshit when Stan Hansen showed up in All Japan? They weren't going "Who is that with Brody & Snuka? I've never seen that guy before?" Dude was going all "STAN HANSEN!!!!! STAN HANSEN!!!!!" on the mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garretta Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 I'm not exactly sure what the postmatch was about since I don't speak Japanese, but it almost seemed to me from the body language that Inoki was congratulating Tenryu on his victory and possibly welcoming him to New Japan. That can't be right, can it? At any rate, this one started sloppy, but it got better as time went on. There was a definite sense of desperation and struggle for almost every move and advantage. Neither one of these two as going to let the other get the best of them without a fight, and there was plenty of fight in both of them. Yes, there were some notable botches, but they didn't lose the crowd, which is a miracle when you consider how dead they were at times earlier in the evening. The only inexcusable moment for me was Tenryu selling Choshu's missed lariat, but he'd probably gotten ready to sell before he knew that Choshu missed completely. Has anyone ever seen a running small package before. I think it was Tenryu who got it, and that would have been a wonderful finisher, especially for smaller guys. This is American-centric thinking, but I'm surprised that Tenryu, the invader, got the clean win. If this had been the US, everyone on the card would have run in and both guys would have been disqualified. I noticed that Choshu didn't waste a lot of time selling the effects of the powerbombs, so that's how he was probably kept strong: "He may have pinned me, but he didn't hurt me!" Much like in the Muta-Chono match, the ref was a pain in the ass, and took a lot away from the first few minutes. Was there some kind of story behind that? Even Japanese refs, who can be very strict when the occasion calls for it, generally stay out of the way in the big matches. Finally, was Tenryu's cut legit? Choshu never worked on it, and it was never made part of the story of the bout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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