CM Punk: Greatest Promo Ever

[MikeCampbell]

What I'm loving about this whole deal is that friends of mine, in my general age group (mid-late 20's), who have followed the business just as closely as I have are 100% convinced that it's a shoot. I got a text from my high school best friend in all caps saying "PUNK IS SUSPENDED AND OFF TV! WHAT BULLSHIT!"

[sek69]

ridiculous bullshit in that regard like Alvarez basically saying WWE thinks he abuses women

what was the deal here?

 

He said that Punk was "considered dangerous around the women" without any analysis, qualification, or objection.

 

Gonna go out on a limb and guess Punk probably earned some enemies since he's long been known to have a list of "acquaintances" that reads like a who's who of female indy pro wrestlers. Plus it's also known that WWE has a slotting system where it's not considered kosher to fuck above your paygrade. Mix in the high-school like culture of pettiness and I wouldn't be surprised if someone was mad Punk took a run at a Diva that another one of the boys had eyes on. All it takes is someone to blind item it to the sheets that Punk is "dangerous" around women, and then it gets repeated as fact even if it gets corrected later like the "Punk got punished for not following the dress code" story.

[Sean Liska]

It was a the best delivered promo on TV in years.

It's a good promo.

 

Can you think of a better promo on WWE or TNA TV in the last five years? I suppose Jericho may have had a few contenders, but aside from that I can't think of anything.

 

The Rock's first promo back? Everyone was calling that one the best moments in RAW history.

[Bix]

ridiculous bullshit in that regard like Alvarez basically saying WWE thinks he abuses women

what was the deal here?

 

He said that Punk was "considered dangerous around the women" without any analysis, qualification, or objection.

 

Gonna go out on a limb and guess Punk probably earned some enemies since he's long been known to have a list of "acquaintances" that reads like a who's who of female indy pro wrestlers. Plus it's also known that WWE has a slotting system where it's not considered kosher to fuck above your paygrade. Mix in the high-school like culture of pettiness and I wouldn't be surprised if someone was mad Punk took a run at a Diva that another one of the boys had eyes on. All it takes is someone to blind item it to the sheets that Punk is "dangerous" around women, and then it gets repeated as fact even if it gets corrected later like the "Punk got punished for not following the dress code" story.

 

I'm sure something like that is the reason. Someone at that one board should ask Byron Alvarro to issue a long overdue retraction and apologize to Punk.

[NintendoLogic]

When was current wrestling so much fun?

The Nexus debut?

[smkelly]

Not to take away from what Punk did, but having the best promo of the past 5 years isn't really a crowning achievement. The bar set for "great promo" is at an all time low. Punk was really great...and stands out as greater in an age of bad/listless/robotic promo work.

 

Eddies mic work in 2005 vs Mysterio is the closest modern day promo work I can think of that rivals Punks Raw thing. Jericho had his moments in the Michaels program in 2008 but I find it overrated.

Eddie's steel cage promo is probably the best promo of the modern era by far.

 

What would you call the best promo of all-time, then? Or broken down by decade.

 

When was current wrestling so much fun?

The Nexus debut?

 

Yeah, that was awesome. It had that surrealness that wrestling needs sometimes.

[sek69]

ridiculous bullshit in that regard like Alvarez basically saying WWE thinks he abuses women

what was the deal here?

 

He said that Punk was "considered dangerous around the women" without any analysis, qualification, or objection.

 

Gonna go out on a limb and guess Punk probably earned some enemies since he's long been known to have a list of "acquaintances" that reads like a who's who of female indy pro wrestlers. Plus it's also known that WWE has a slotting system where it's not considered kosher to fuck above your paygrade. Mix in the high-school like culture of pettiness and I wouldn't be surprised if someone was mad Punk took a run at a Diva that another one of the boys had eyes on. All it takes is someone to blind item it to the sheets that Punk is "dangerous" around women, and then it gets repeated as fact even if it gets corrected later like the "Punk got punished for not following the dress code" story.

 

I'm sure something like that is the reason. Someone at that one board should ask Byron Alvarro to issue a long overdue retraction and apologize to Punk.

 

 

Bix, do you and Alvarez have legit heat over something?

[goodhelmet]

What would you call the best promo of all-time, then? Or broken down by decade.

1980s - Dusty Rhodes - Hard Times; He also had one from Mid South after Dick Murdoch was attacked that Bix found on the old Mid South reels. Amazing stuff.

1990s - Bret Hart had tons when he was in the midst of his heel run in 1997. One of the reasons my Hart Foundation 1997 set remains one of my favorites.

2000s - Eddie's Cage Promo

 

 

The Nexus debut?

The difference is I expected them to fuck that up. With the Punk thing, the worst thing they could do was take him off the PPV... but then it's a shoot and he got over. As a work, we get the PPV payoff we expect.

[smkelly]

Where would an all promo compilation rank on your to-do list?

[MJH]

Now admittedly, I'm not much a promo guy (and when I am it's generally more Arn/Jake over Flair/Dusty), but isn't there a much stronger case that Austin 3:16 is the best promo of the decade because of the resulting $$$ than, say, he's the best US wrestler of the decade because he drew the most $$$? Aren't promos, like angles, all supposed to be about building interest in the upcoming big match? Where did "promo as advert/promotion" give way to "promo as dramatic monologue" (or however you'd term it)? Was it Rock?

 

You watch "Hard Times", and people see that and want to watch Dusty kick Flair's ass and take the belt.

 

Whereas, you watch most Rock promos and they're events unto themselves. There's a few exceptions, of course, but Rock promos generally just make you want to watch him rather than whatever his upcoming match may be, and if all Rock ever did was talk you'd be perfectly content.

[Bix]

ridiculous bullshit in that regard like Alvarez basically saying WWE thinks he abuses women

what was the deal here?

 

He said that Punk was "considered dangerous around the women" without any analysis, qualification, or objection.

 

Gonna go out on a limb and guess Punk probably earned some enemies since he's long been known to have a list of "acquaintances" that reads like a who's who of female indy pro wrestlers. Plus it's also known that WWE has a slotting system where it's not considered kosher to fuck above your paygrade. Mix in the high-school like culture of pettiness and I wouldn't be surprised if someone was mad Punk took a run at a Diva that another one of the boys had eyes on. All it takes is someone to blind item it to the sheets that Punk is "dangerous" around women, and then it gets repeated as fact even if it gets corrected later like the "Punk got punished for not following the dress code" story.

 

I'm sure something like that is the reason. Someone at that one board should ask Byron Alvarro to issue a long overdue retraction and apologize to Punk.

 

 

Bix, do you and Alvarez have legit heat over something?

 

I honestly have no idea.

[Loss]

Now admittedly, I'm not much a promo guy (and when I am it's generally more Arn/Jake over Flair/Dusty), but isn't there a much stronger case that Austin 3:16 is the best promo of the decade because of the resulting $$$ than, say, he's the best US wrestler of the decade because he drew the most $$$? Aren't promos, like angles, all supposed to be about building interest in the upcoming big match? Where did "promo as advert/promotion" give way to "promo as dramatic monologue" (or however you'd term it)? Was it Rock?

 

You watch "Hard Times", and people see that and want to watch Dusty kick Flair's ass and take the belt.

 

Whereas, you watch most Rock promos and they're events unto themselves. There's a few exceptions, of course, but Rock promos generally just make you want to watch him rather than whatever his upcoming match may be, and if all Rock ever did was talk you'd be perfectly content.

This honestly always kept me from really being a huge Rock fan. Lots of entertaining talk, not much talk to hype something and get me excited about seeing it.

[kjh]

Yeah, if there was a weakness with Punk's promo is that it kind of blew off the personal issue with Cena to shoot on the promotion.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

ridiculous bullshit in that regard like Alvarez basically saying WWE thinks he abuses women

what was the deal here?

 

He said that Punk was "considered dangerous around the women" without any analysis, qualification, or objection.

 

Gonna go out on a limb and guess Punk probably earned some enemies since he's long been known to have a list of "acquaintances" that reads like a who's who of female indy pro wrestlers. Plus it's also known that WWE has a slotting system where it's not considered kosher to fuck above your paygrade. Mix in the high-school like culture of pettiness and I wouldn't be surprised if someone was mad Punk took a run at a Diva that another one of the boys had eyes on. All it takes is someone to blind item it to the sheets that Punk is "dangerous" around women, and then it gets repeated as fact even if it gets corrected later like the "Punk got punished for not following the dress code" story.

 

I'm sure something like that is the reason. Someone at that one board should ask Byron Alvarro to issue a long overdue retraction and apologize to Punk.

 

 

Bix, do you and Alvarez have legit heat over something?

 

I honestly have no idea.

 

Well there was this: http://soundcloud.com/unapologeticfaggotry/bix-run-in

 

And no, I didn't upload it, so don't anyone get mad at me for the name of the user who did.

[jdw]

That wasn't an angle, though. He got a Jamie Noble "we have no other choice, stay away from TNA and we'll see you real soon" firing.

To be fair to John, no-one's ever really got to the bottom of Danielson's firing. I do tend to believe Randazzo's story in PowerSlam that Linda McMahon's political campaign was behind his firing, but it's not like anyone has confirmed who freaked out and caused his firing, so I can understand someone still believing it was a work all along.

 

To be fair to myself:

 

Danielson was "fired".

 

A lot of people thought at the time that he was Fired, and were pissed off about it.

 

He wasn't. He was "fired". The Pat Patterson equiv. Asked to go away, get out of sight... except...

 

They took advantage of it by having him work indies and play into the concept that he really was Fired so that his return would mean something to Danielson Fans.

 

But really anyone who took 2 minutes to think about it at the time knew that he was coming back as soon as things quited down which would be much sooner than later.

 

Punk isn't Leaving. He's "leaving".

 

He won't even be gone as long as Jericho's first hiatus. Someone (or several someones) will get hurt in key spots and they'll tell him it's time for him to come off the bench.

 

That is if they haven't *already* set a specific date for his return. Which is probably the most likely thing.

 

John

[NintendoLogic]

The difference is I expected them to fuck that up. With the Punk thing, the worst thing they could do was take him off the PPV... but then it's a shoot and he got over. As a work, we get the PPV payoff we expect.

I kind of had the opposite reaction. Even if it is a shoot and Punk gets over, what does that mean? He goes back to the indies and gets a marginally higher payday than he would have otherwise received? He takes some time off and returns to the WWE and the incident is consigned to the memory hole? I think we can all agree that Punk is too smart to go to TNA, but if he did, something like this isn't going to put him on the level where he'd be a game-changer.

 

The Nexus, on the other hand, was genuinely shocking. Having a bunch of guys who were portrayed as, and treated like, total goofs come out and lay waste to everything was so far outside the box for the WWE that I felt like it could have gone in just about any direction. Besides, they couldn't have fucked it up too badly. Look who they got on board:

 

[Victator]

Nexus had little potential because none of those guys were ready. They got as far as they could with their current skill/charisma/promo level.

[rovert]

Nexus had little potential because none of those guys were ready. They got as far as they could with their current skill/charisma/promo level.

Yep they were done when Daniel Bryan was cut.

 

WWE in fairness did really well to get a Summerslam out of a bunch of rookies.

[NintendoLogic]

Losing Danielson was a big blow, but Skip Sheffield going down is what really killed it. Once they lost their enforcer, it was hard to take them seriously as a legitimate threat.

[Bix]

ridiculous bullshit in that regard like Alvarez basically saying WWE thinks he abuses women

what was the deal here?

 

He said that Punk was "considered dangerous around the women" without any analysis, qualification, or objection.

 

Gonna go out on a limb and guess Punk probably earned some enemies since he's long been known to have a list of "acquaintances" that reads like a who's who of female indy pro wrestlers. Plus it's also known that WWE has a slotting system where it's not considered kosher to fuck above your paygrade. Mix in the high-school like culture of pettiness and I wouldn't be surprised if someone was mad Punk took a run at a Diva that another one of the boys had eyes on. All it takes is someone to blind item it to the sheets that Punk is "dangerous" around women, and then it gets repeated as fact even if it gets corrected later like the "Punk got punished for not following the dress code" story.

 

I'm sure something like that is the reason. Someone at that one board should ask Byron Alvarro to issue a long overdue retraction and apologize to Punk.

 

 

Bix, do you and Alvarez have legit heat over something?

 

I honestly have no idea.

 

Well there was this: http://soundcloud.com/unapologeticfaggotry/bix-run-in

 

And no, I didn't upload it, so don't anyone get mad at me for the name of the user who did.

 

I mean more recently.

[Kostka]

Now admittedly, I'm not much a promo guy (and when I am it's generally more Arn/Jake over Flair/Dusty), but isn't there a much stronger case that Austin 3:16 is the best promo of the decade because of the resulting $$$ than, say, he's the best US wrestler of the decade because he drew the most $$$? Aren't promos, like angles, all supposed to be about building interest in the upcoming big match? Where did "promo as advert/promotion" give way to "promo as dramatic monologue" (or however you'd term it)? Was it Rock?

 

You watch "Hard Times", and people see that and want to watch Dusty kick Flair's ass and take the belt.

 

Whereas, you watch most Rock promos and they're events unto themselves. There's a few exceptions, of course, but Rock promos generally just make you want to watch him rather than whatever his upcoming match may be, and if all Rock ever did was talk you'd be perfectly content.

This honestly always kept me from really being a huge Rock fan. Lots of entertaining talk, not much talk to hype something and get me excited about seeing it.

 

That is why Rock is in such a league of his own. He's so good at his "thing" that you can't really judge him by traditional standards of what makes a great promo guy.

[Bob Morris]

I wrote this at tOA and am cross-posting it here:

 

Having watched the Punk promo online, I can say this:

 

The promo was good. Punk's delivery was exactly what it needed to be... calm and collected yet with a hint of annoyance in his tone of voice, rather than just ranting and raving. Additionally, he didn't go over people's heads with his remarks... he mostly discussed things the average WWE fan would know about it, or if they wouldn't, mention something first to tie it into the specific individual (the example is John Laurinitis, who average WWE fans likely don't know, but Cena prefaced it by talking about yes-men and then naming John, and average fans certainly understand what a "yes-man" is).

 

He also was wise to rip the fans during the promo so they would keep booing him... and especially to insult the fans just before he brought up Vince McMahon. Doing that ensured the fans would keep booing, rather than suddenly cheer him because they agree with him about Vince.

 

As far as where it leads... I'm not surprised Punk didn't appear on the next set of Raw tapings. The best way to get the most money out of this is to keep the "Internet smarks" guessing what will happen with Punk rather than them analyzing what they do with him based on spoiler reports.

 

With that said, I think we all know this likely won't go that far. Punk may or may not have signed a short-term extension but I doubt he'll be around for much longer beyond MitB. Seems to me Punk is more interested in "going out with a bang" than trying to get a long run at the top... so if MitB is his last appearance (and I have no reason to believe he won't appear as I think we all know the suspension stuff is a work), he's remembered for going out strong (and I seriously doubt they'd squash him as that would piss off fans who pay their money expecting a competitive main event) and on a memorable note.

 

Then, when he comes back from his hiatus, he can get another deal where he gets upper midcard/main event material similar to what Chris Jericho got, make more money, then be able to step away when he's ready to.

 

It's Punk being smart enough to know how to keep his name out there without outright pissing anyone off. I'm sure Vince isn't really upset... between Punk insulting the fans before he chewed out Vince and Vince knowing there could be some additional PPV buys coming his way, he'll be fine with it, even if he isn't smart enough to know how to capitalize on any momentum WWE may get.

[rovert]

Have any of you guys listened to the two Formerly Creative podcasts? Fun listening to them geek out over CM Punk calling out WWE management. There's some interesting notes on Punk's ECW days about the opposition he was up against and being mocked by various agents and wrestlers.

 

As an aside on the first of the two podcast at the very end they all put over Mark Henry over personally and professionally. They all seem to be frustrated by creative putting stem on Henry only for Vince to job him out for no real reason.

[rovert]

EDIT: *Double post*

 

Jensen Karp also likened Vince McMahon to George Lucas in terms of frustrating people

[rovert]

Someone rule on this. Cornette invites Punk to ROH:

 

Does Jim:

a ) think the promo was a shoot

B ) just wants to play along

c ) just want to promote ROH