Tony Schiavone and early 90s WCW announcing

[Strummer]

I'm kinda in the same situation as funk. Our cable system didn't offer TBS when I was a kid so all I had to watch was WWF, AWA on ESPN, whatever was airing on ESPN on Weekday afternoons (World Class, Global, etc). I completely understand the problems the WWF had in the 80s but man they just made me care about their big matches and shows more. We used to get WSBK out of Boston up here and that had Wordwide and I rented as many NWA/WCW PPVs from Blockbuster that my parents let me. I really liked the different presentation that they had to offer but the WWF still could promote that "big match feel" just a little better

[Loss]

Absolutely. The things the WWF did well they did really well. I don't know that their booking was ever *great*, but it was pretty organized and disciplined when it was Vince and Patterson.

[Bix]

Our cable system didn't offer TBS when I was a kid

That sounds impossible.

[Strummer]

I was real young so maybe things were different but we didn't have the station. Not till 1996

[cm funk]

Yeah, my family got basic cable in the 87-88 range and I'm almost positive we didnt get TBS on basic until 92. The north east is a bit weird that way in some areas, still tons of cable providers up here that dont carry WGN at all, when Superstars was on I couldnt have seen it without switching to directv or dish or whatever

[Strummer]

never had WGN either. Yeah I guess Northeast is weird. I think we had TCI growing up

[Dooley]

Our cable system didn't offer TBS when I was a kid

That sounds impossible.

 

I'm Canadian and I always thought it was the greatest thing in the world when they would have one of those "free preview weekends" once a quarter or so because then and only then could I catch Saturday Night and maybe if I was really lucky one of the Clash shows.

[khawk20]

Our cable system didn't offer TBS when I was a kid

That sounds impossible.

 

I'm Canadian and I always thought it was the greatest thing in the world when they would have one of those "free preview weekends" once a quarter or so because then and only then could I catch Saturday Night and maybe if I was really lucky one of the Clash shows.

 

Even then, it depended on where in Canada you lived. Where I am, we did not get TBS or many other major TV stations out of the US at all (no option for even a free preview), yet a 2000 person town an hour up the road got TBS and all the rest. Drove me nuts.

 

That was due to a media monopoly in our town and a whole bunch of other political bullshit that I never would have understood at that age anyways.

[artDDP]

I'll defend Gorilla. Just a little, though, because I do think he's a shitty announcer and he's painful to listen to.

 

I think it's a match on the Bret Hart DVD set WWE produced in 2005. Someone goes for a pin and the referee puts his hands on the wrestler's back and pushes himself off to get in position to see the shoulders. Gorilla spends a good amount of time burying the referee for interfering with a pin and says he has no business placing his hands on a competitor in that situation.

 

I thought that was kind of cool and added a little extra air of legitimacy to the match.

[Mad Dog]

Gorilla seemed to keep Heenan under control better than other announcers. Heenan always seemed more on track when he was announcing with Gorilla and I think it was because Gorilla played ball with his humor. When you get Heenan with Schiavone or someone else who doesn't play ball, he gets desperate for attention and starts derailing the show with his attempts at humor and his gimmick.

[El-P]

Gorilla seemed to keep Heenan under control better than other announcers. Heenan always seemed more on track when he was announcing with Gorilla and I think it was because Gorilla played ball with his humor. When you get Heenan with Schiavone or someone else who doesn't play ball, he gets desperate for attention and starts derailing the show with his attempts at humor and his gimmick.

There is this : Gorilla and Heenan were best friends. Heenan and Schiavone didn't get along, and at this point Heenan was in cruise control mode.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Be careful listening to Nash.

"Be Careful?" Why?

 

Piper at Summerslam 90 is really interesting too, especially during the Warrior/Rude match when he just doesn't get whatever the hell Warrior's doing.

I just watched that match for the first time in years and years as it's on the new Cage Match DVD that fucking rules. Shit, Piper not only "just doesn't get whatever the hell Warrior's doing.", he basically shits all over the guy, especially in the first few minutes. It's great.

[sek69]

You want to talk about announcers burying guys, Piper's your guy. There's the famous Saba Simba moment (sure it was Wrestlecrap, but still...) and it still bothers me to watch Undertaker debut at Survivor Series and listen to Piper nearly derail the whole gimmick trying to get his comedy in.

[artDDP]

You want to talk about announcers burying guys, Piper's your guy. There's the famous Saba Simba moment (sure it was Wrestlecrap, but still...) and it still bothers me to watch Undertaker debut at Survivor Series and listen to Piper nearly derail the whole gimmick trying to get his comedy in.

My personal favorite Piper moment: The debut of Colonel Mustafa. Piper bursts into laughter and says to Vince, "I tell ya, they just get goofier as the years go by, huh, Vince?"

 

Vince's reply is, "Yes, indeed, a former WWF champion now calling himself Col. Mustafa."

 

Any idea why they just let stuff like that air back when Vince would re-shoot and edit his TV to perfection?

[Al]

Piper was at his best during Hart/Perfect at Summerslam '91. His cheerleading of Bret Hart while Heenan boosted Mr. Perfect made a good match seem important and epic.

[Mad Dog]

Since Cox got me watching SMW with his thread. I really like Bob Caudle and Dutch Mantell as a team. Mantell is really a good color commentator. Caudle, I honestly used to hate Caudle but he started growing on me several years ago. I've really grown to like his no nonsense approach to things.

[JerryvonKramer]

You want to talk about announcers burying guys, Piper's your guy. There's the famous Saba Simba moment (sure it was Wrestlecrap, but still...) and it still bothers me to watch Undertaker debut at Survivor Series and listen to Piper nearly derail the whole gimmick trying to get his comedy in.

My personal favorite Piper moment: The debut of Colonel Mustafa. Piper bursts into laughter and says to Vince, "I tell ya, they just get goofier as the years go by, huh, Vince?"

 

Vince's reply is, "Yes, indeed, a former WWF champion now calling himself Col. Mustafa."

 

Any idea why they just let stuff like that air back when Vince would re-shoot and edit his TV to perfection?

 

They buried Mustafa a lot on commentary.

 

Sean Mooney and Alfred Hayes in particular would make fun of his weight and generally run him down. Always found that a bit strange.

[Gregor]

I just watched a Savage-Santana match from 1986. Savage hits a clothesline on Santana early in the match and goes for the pin, hooking the leg. Santana kicks out, and Gorilla says, "He was so intent on hooking that leg that he's letting go of the upper body." You can't win with the guy!

[S.L.L.]

My perpetually slow-moving (but to be completed by tonight, I swear!) All-Request Friday Night article on Segunda Caida opened with a review of a Brunzell/Bret match where I mostly focused on the Monsoon/Heenan commentary in light of this thread.

 

Part One of a Three-Part, Week-Long Friday

 

Apropos of something, there's a discussion going on on ProWrestlingOnly about the viability of 80's WWF in general, and of the commentary stylings of one Gorilla Monsoon in particular. Personally, I'm pretty fond of Gorilla, but I grew up with early 90's WWF, and watching his stuff now, it's very clear to me that nostalgia is the only reason I like him. Granted, nostalgia protected his standing with me far better than it did, say, The Ultimate Warrior, which I guess says something positive about him. But damned if I know what, and certainly, had I been following other promotions as a child, I doubt I'd have much tolerance for some of his bullshit. I'm mentioning all of this because one of the things that really stood out to me about this match was that Gorilla's call of it (ably assisted by Bobby Heenan) was actually quite good, and may be indicative of why some of us remember him fondly...even people like me who should know better. It probably helps that Bret is in the match. Bret is, of course, the one guy who Gorilla really had a hand in getting over on commentary - even if just in a small way - by coining the "Excellence of Execution" nickname for him. He doesn't actually drop that title in this match, though he gets the same point across ("He is devastating in everything that he does, because he does the moves to perfection") and otherwise puts him over strong (citing him as the obvious most improved wrestler of '86). He stays on top of the match, and any sidetracks are relevant. He doesn't try to put himself over. He doesn't bury the heels (quite the opposite with Bret), merely acknowledging their heelishness (which is legitimate), pointing out how annoying Jimmy Hart is (which is the whole point of his character), and calling Heenan on his bullshit (which is both obvious and funny). In fact, he's pretty even-handed in this regard. Brunzell is working the match with a taped left forearm and hand, and while he does note that it probably would have been approved for use in the match ahead of time, he doesn't dispute Heenan when he points out something fishy about natural righty Brunzell throwing a flying left forearm late in the match, and after winning the match by DQ when Bret crotches him on the top rope, notes that Brunzell could very well have been DQ'd himself earlier in the match for the taped forearm shot. Beyond that, it's Gorilla and the Brain, and for whatever other faults Gorilla had as an announcer, I still find his interplay with Heenan to be priceless. It's not an all-time great call of a match or anything. I just thought it was interesting to see an example of Gorilla firing on all cylinders.

Looking back a week later, "firing on all cylinders" sounds like slightly stronger praise than I really wanted to give him, but this still felt more like the idealized Gorilla than the one we usually got.

[Victator]

Gorilla's best asset was he could make a bad/boring match entertaining. Whien calling a ten minute Boris Zuchov match, that is a good skill to have.

[Strummer]

I think it was obvious Gorilla hated smaller wrestlers. He used to egg on Heenan on Prime Time that Rick Rude was a "pipsqueak". It's something I didn't notice as a kid but sticks out now.

 

Question how did Gorilla keep winning Worst Announcer when Ron Trongaard was *right* there? I mean you can make an argument that Gorilla was a poor announcer but there was no way he was worse than Trongaard

[Loss]

That I definitely agree with. Probably just a case of more people watching the WWF who voted.

[Mad Dog]

I think it was obvious Gorilla hated smaller wrestlers. He used to egg on Heenan on Prime Time that Rick Rude was a "pipsqueak". It's something I didn't notice as a kid but sticks out now.

 

Question how did Gorilla keep winning Worst Announcer when Ron Trongaard was *right* there? I mean you can make an argument that Gorilla was a poor announcer but there was no way he was worse than Trongaard

I disargree. Gorilla loved Bret Hart, Koko B. Ware and Tito Santana. The Rude dig was at his gimmick and personality. It was an easy way to get under Heenan's skin.

 

Ron Trongard was basically done as a wrestling announcer by 1988. So he was overshadowed by the irrational hatred of David Crockett. The AWA doesn't really count though. Being a sucky announcer was a requirement for the AWA. Eric Bischoff was probably the best announcer they had on ESPN and that's by default. Both Gagne's sucked, Larry Nelson sucked, Lee Marshall sucked and Ray Stevens might have been the worst announcer ever.

[Strummer]

I didn't think Lord James Blears was that bad. During the Bockwinkel/Hennig 60 minute draw he tries to cover up the pathetic performance by Trongaard. Trongaard was completely clueless and the worst announcer I've ever heard (color would be Mark Madden)

[Guest Paul Kersey]

Having heard that Michael Cole sees himself calling his real buddy John Cena's matches as being like JR calling Austin, I think it's kind of weird that he still puts Cena over to the extent he does. I don't remember him even taking his heel buddy Miz's side against Cena, though I may be wrong on that. It just kind of makes me think of Mark Madden claiming he said things in gimmick but always, always, always, in all circumstances, be they heel or face, praising his buddy Nash and burying "DDMe." I can't remember if he called any of their 2000-1 Insiders tag matches.