Guest Eduardo James Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 It's interesting to revisit the stuff from 07 like Benoit and how strongly and emotionally people reacted. Loss was calling for wrestling to be banned and seemed pretty disllusioned with the whole thing in general. There was also that book Ring of Hell that ended up being forgotten despite people like Bix and SLL pushing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 man i loved ring of hell, no idea how it holds up though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 It took me over three years to stop hating wrestling after that happened. A lot of it was for sure overreaction in the moment, but we saw the ugly underbelly of wrestling in full view during that time period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eduardo James Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 I wouldn't say overreaction. A man killed his wife and young child. Of course most people would reevaluate how they look at certain things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 I was the opposite of Loss. I pretty much kept watching wrestling the way I always did. I remember reading the Benoit stuff when it happened and thinking, initially "What? there's no way." Then when all the details starting coming out, I thought "damn, that sucks." That was about the extent of my thinking. It was awful but I didn't know the people involved, so it didn't affect me any, or my daily life. I was never a big Benoit fan though, so maybe that had something to do with it. I remember sleeping though 9/11 when it happened, I slept until like 7PM that night 'cause I was working graveyard shifts at the time. I woke up saw it all over the news & everywhere I went and I didn't grasp the magnitude of how big of a deal it really was. I was in my own daily bubble. Admittedly, I'm not the most empathetic guy but when something like the Benoit incident happened, I kept my distance from others that were a lot more emotionally invested in it than I was, even on the internet. I didn't feel it was my place to express any thoughts or opinions on it, I wasn't as passionate about it as others. Never once did I think because Benoit went totally banana that I was gonna stop watching wrestling or anything like that. There's always been bad shit in wrestling & there always will be. There's bad shit everywhere. If you dwell on it, you'll go nuts. I know that's why I would never be able to have a job like a detective or doctor, I wouldn't be able to handle seeing all the filth of life all the time. Sometimes, at least for me, ignorance really is bliss. If you're exposed to the dirty underbelly of shit all the time, if you have any human decency whatsoever, it'll just eat away at you & erode you & rust you out like an old Buick. I see it today on social media all the time too. It's depressing. I have to actively hide people when they're talking about Gaza or Jerusalem, or about war & officers getting shot, or religious groups protesting funerals...I don't wanna be reminded of that shit every day of my life. The Owen Hart Memorial Tribute RAW & the Chris Benoit RAW where you could tell halfway through the show that more information was coming out, were two of the most surreal wrestling shows I've ever seen in my life. I remember people at school asking me about Owen Hart because they thought it was fake. How do you even reply to something like that? Make a joke & hope it isn't too distasteful? I didn't have any answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Ring of Hell was an awful book written by a man who looked more than a little like an actual rat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Ring of Hell was an awful book written by a man who looked more than a little like an actual rat. Who also posts here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Ouch. Apologies to the person, I had no idea, I wouldn't of been so on the nose if I knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 I was the same as Loss except I stayed away for about 5 years after about 6 months of denial. Honestly this year is the most I've watched wrestling since that happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 I had actually just gotten back into wrestling in the Spring of 2007 because I really enjoyed the WWE product at the time and me and my friends were having so much fun with it. Then, the Benoit business happened and, to be honest, I had an odd reaction that meant I really jumped in even further to see how WWE reacted, wrestling in general reacted and the internet reacted. It was a fascinating time but for absolutely all the wrong reasons. I actually read Ring of Hell a couple of months ago and it's still a really engrossing read. It has the typical wrestling hang-up of knowing to take what any wrestler (and subsequent source) in the book has to say with a huge grain of salt but it remains a vivid look into the mind of Benoit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Ring of Hell was an awful book written by a man who looked more than a little like an actual rat. Who also posts here. The Kindle version had horrendous formatting issues. Don't know if it still does. I emailed him about the issue. No response. He clearly didn't care. Not exactly a fan of his because of that. This was back before refunds for Kindle books could be initiated at the click of a button within the first seven days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 The book was fun because wrestling sleaze is awesome, but Randazzo is/was a terrible writer. Randy Orton gay porn star still makes me laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I mentioned this on twitter, but if Spike actually wants wrestling and just not TNA, there is a lot of talent out there. You could start up a promotion starring Alberto, Chris Hero, AJ Styles, Drew McIntyre, The Briscoe Brothers, Hardy Boyz, Dudley Boyz, Chris Masters, Drew Gulak, Biff Busick, Timothy Thatcher, ACH, Cedric Alexander, Josh Alexander, Ethan Page, and the list goes on and on. If somebody competent existed with some fresh ideas and the talent available, this could be insanely fun. Sadly, I don't think it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 The book was fun because wrestling sleaze is awesome, but Randazzo is/was a terrible writer. Randy Orton gay porn star still makes me laugh Softened/developed relationships with people who plugged that book the most but that book was as tone deaf and uneven of a book I have ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Probably didn't help that it was written (IIRC) in the deepest darkest points of the Benoit aftermath when a lot of people were in a "fuck wrestling" frame of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eduardo James Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 At times I wish the old post-green DVDVR board was still around just to look back at how one of the larger Internet forums viewed wrestling. Then I remember latina floppies, Mumm-Ra/Ganc, Gonzalez and other annoying trolls and end up shoveling more dirt on the grave. The new board is rather bland, with a ton of faceless users more focused on gimmicks, memes or trolling. I know it doesn't sound too different from the 2005-2013 board, but at least guys like Bix and Dukes had personality, dammit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 At times I wish the old post-green DVDVR board was still around just to look back at how one of the larger Internet forums viewed wrestling. Then I remember latina floppies, Mumm-Ra/Ganc, Gonzalez and other annoying trolls and end up shoveling more dirt on the grave. The new board is rather bland, with a ton of faceless users more focused on gimmicks, memes or trolling. I know it doesn't sound too different from the 2005-2013 board, but at least guys like Bix and Dukes had personality, dammit. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I enjoyed RIng of Hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 At times I wish the old post-green DVDVR board was still around just to look back at how one of the larger Internet forums viewed wrestling. Then I remember latina floppies, Mumm-Ra/Ganc, Gonzalez and other annoying trolls and end up shoveling more dirt on the grave. The new board is rather bland, with a ton of faceless users more focused on gimmicks, memes or trolling. I know it doesn't sound too different from the 2005-2013 board, but at least guys like Bix and Dukes had personality, dammit. I tend to check in on the Raw threads to see how some people bend over backwards to defend WWE booking this week. The Wrestler of the Day posts are always good fun too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakla Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Ring of Hell was an awful book written by a man who looked more than a little like an actual rat. Who also posts here. The Kindle version had horrendous formatting issues. Don't know if it still does. I emailed him about the issue. No response. He clearly didn't care. Not exactly a fan of his because of that. This was back before refunds for Kindle books could be initiated at the click of a button within the first seven days. Amazon doesn't sell a kindle version anymore, which is odd. Figured that having a kindle edition of a book available allows it to still be sold even if hard copies are out of print. Never read it, but remember when Alvarez interviewed the author and told him a line like "every bump in the ring hurts" was complete bullshit. And one of them said "except all of Velvet Sky's bumps hurt". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 The Kindle version [of Ring of Hell] had horrendous formatting issues. Don't know if it still does. I emailed him about the issue. No response. He clearly didn't care. Not exactly a fan of his because of that. This was back before refunds for Kindle books could be initiated at the click of a button within the first seven days. Amazon doesn't sell a kindle version anymore, which is odd. Figured that having a kindle edition of a book available allows it to still be sold even if hard copies are out of print. Never read it, but remember when Alvarez interviewed the author and told him a line like "every bump in the ring hurts" was complete bullshit. And one of them said "except all of Velvet Sky's bumps hurt". I wonder if it got pulled after too many complaints about the formatting. Wouldn't surprise me. What does surprise me is why the author/publisher haven't done anything to get it back up there. Here's one example (of MANY) of the shitty formatting in the Kindle version: "When former NJPW Champion tried to pick up his bags. When former NJPW pound monster was less elusive." WTF is that gibberish? I e-mailed the author (no response, which is ridiculous), the publisher (did respond but was clueless), and Amazon (promised to look into it, but nothing ever got fixed as far as I know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I doubt it's anything to do with Amazon formatting. It's just an upload of a word document, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I doubt it's anything to do with Amazon formatting. It's just an upload of a word document, no? That's how it is now, I believe. But I think it was more complicated in the early days of the Kindle. Not really sure though. Some of those early Kindle books had some pretty wonky formatting...Ring of Hell wasn't alone in that, but it was probably one of the worst I've seen for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I liked the first 2/3 or so of Ring of Hell , but once I realized that Randazzo was using shoot interviews and internet wrestling reviews and such as actual sourcing for the book, it became obvious to me that he wrote the book with an agenda, and was using whatever half-qualified source he could find to make the point, even if most of those sources could have been and should have been questioned by anybody with the exposure to the wrestling internet underground that the former PolishBobStupak would have had, so it kind of lost me in the end. There probably is a good point in there somewhere, and there is some good insight from former WWE writers before that became a cottage industry on blogs and Twitter, but he used some faulty ass logic to get there, which makes it hard for me to take seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 The moral issues that bugged me the most about wrestling at that time were that Daniel Benoit made no choice to be in wrestling, yet there was so much talk from apologists about personal choice. I think had it been a horrible worker who did this, it might have been viewed differently as well, if only because it wouldn't have been an indictment of good wrestling and the sometimes horrible sacrifices it takes to produce it. Those great matches sometimes come at a heavy price. Chris Benoit was considered the model wrestler both inside and outside of wrestling. I wasn't a massive Benoit fan, though I did enjoy a lot of his matches. Still, he was living embodiment of hardcore wrestling fandom, so looking at the qualities we valued in our wrestling was a natural step. It's why I still have such an instinctively negative reaction when people complain about wrestlers being too small. Should they be taking steroids to bulk up so that credibility isn't sacrificed on a show where Vicki Guerrero argues with Miss Piggy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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