Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 3

[Loss]

Ron Garvin got over great and drew reasonably well as a challenger to Flair. He just wasn't cut out to be the champion.

[jdw]

The only lifetime achievement award title run ever was Foley.

Wait... what the fuck?

 

12/29/98 Mankind over Rock

01/24/99 Rock over Mankind

01/26/99 Mankind (2) over Rock

02/15/99 Rock over Mankind

08/22/99 Mankind (3) over Austin & HHH

08/23/99 HHH over Mankind

 

He debuted in the WWE in 1996. Feuded with Taker, had the one-off with Shawn, feuded with Austin in 1998. He got those cups of coffee with the title as a lifetime achievement award?

 

I could have sworn that Rock-Foley was over, and they liked the "surprise" on TV (the December one and the Super Bowl Halftime show). Of course Rock was going to get it back to face Austin at Mania, but they were in the phase of shorter title reigns.

 

The Summer Slam one... my recollection is that Austin didn't want to put over Trip, so Foley was in there.

 

Perhaps someone had the late 98 / early 99 WONs and can dig up quotes from Dave *at the time* of Foley getting those titles as a lifetime achievement award. I sure as hell don't remember them at the time...

 

John

[BrickHithouse]

I never understood the whole Ron Garvin as NWA Champion deal.

 

Going by what I've heard and read over the years, no one wanted the title because they'd just have to drop it back to Flair at Starrcade?

 

The NWA title was still a respected, coveted belt. Hard to believe no one wanted that spot, even if just for a few months.

 

Barry Windham, Doc, Nikita Koloff, hell even Terry Taylor - not one single guy on the roster wanted the belt at that time? Garvin was the only guy ready, willing, and able?

 

I can see Doc and Taylor not being considered due to politics at the time, and can see Dusty not wanting to job to Flair. Why not Windham or Koloff?

 

What was really the deal? Garvin was a decent wrestler, but there were better options and I don't buy the old line that "no one wanted the belt".

 

Sorry for the ignorance, figure this was a good chance to ask.

[Cox]

Why would they give a lifetime achievement award to Foley when he had been there for two and a half years? Granted, he probably took more bumps in two and a half years there than some people did in ten, but still.

[Loss]

Crockett and Dusty wanted to build Starrcade around Flair regaining the title from someone. They just needed a warm body, and Garvin was the guy they decided on. I think Windham getting the belt would have worked a little better and also provided some good symmetry for the Horsemen run a few months later. They may have run that match into the ground earlier in the year though. Not sure why he wasn't considered. He wasn't really higher or lower than Garvin at that point. Aside from Dusty, the Road Warriors and maybe Nikita, by 1987, all the babyfaces were this blob of guys that were sort of interchangeable in position on the card.

[jdw]

Loss outed as Bruce Mitchell!

Loss and Bruce don't look anything alike.

[Strummer]

I think people are underestimating Benoit here. He was incredibly over with the crowd, often more than anyone else on the show. His pops were huge, he could work a good match with pretty much anyone, they needed a fresh face at the top.

 

I think he was sort of ruined by not going one on one with Shawn at Backlash - the crowd absolutely despised Michaels that night and were ridiculously behind Benoit. HHH was just a distraction to the real story. A clean win over HBK would have really kept the momentum going.

 

And to call his title win simply a 'gold watch' assumes that there were other, more attractive options at the time to hold the belt. The opposite is true - the only potential title holders on Raw at that time were;

 

Triple-H (had pretty much had the strap for two years, stale)

HBK (didn't work a full schedule)

Booker-T (never really considered a top guy by management)

RVD (backstage issues)

Kane (stale to the point where he wasn't a legitimate guy who could carry the company)

Chris Jericho (first title reign considered a failure)

Randy Orton (too young, too early)

 

He was crazy over, he could work, he was loyal - clearly the best candidate at the time to bring some freshness to the belt.

 

If anything felt forced it was Mysterio's reign in 2006 - everybody knew he wouldn't have got anywhere near the title if it hadn't been for Eddie dying and the story of him 'doing it for my friend'. There are parallels, too, in that he was only allowed to beat truly top guys in a triple threat environment. I don't think either Guerrero, Benoit or Mysterio ever got a clean win against a truly top guy. Of the three it was Benoit who was pushed the most in his tenure - The Rock tapped to him more than once as did Kurt Angle, Trips, Shawn etc. I don't think HBK or HHH would have gone down to Guerrero, which is why I think Benoit's reign was far from just a 'golden watch'.

 

I would say he was very over in certain markets. Canada, obviously and all of the smark friendly Northeastern cities. Put him in that environment and he seemed like a major star and top player. Have him wrestle in Phoenix and while his reaction was above average he didn't come off quite as well. Eddy was getting reactions everywhere

[Victator]

I remember reading in some magazines, that they were considering turning Mania into Mankind vs Austin vs Rock.

[tim]

a bit off topic but i've always liked the idea of a somewhat 'lesser' guy winning a world belt now and again. not something that should happen often(as it does with the constant mitb stuff) but i like the idea of, once in a blue moon, an over mid-card guy who has no business in the main event mix pulling off a huge upset, maybe making 1 or 2 successful defenses based on momentum and a huge boost of confidence, and then inevitably losing and not being able to keep up in the main event mix long term.

 

makes for a memorable moment, makes the title hunt feel more organic, and i think might actually better establish a hierarchy based on ability rather than having an arbitrary 'its booking' feel.

[Badlittlekitten]

Bloody hell, I've only just discovered that Ole and Arn aren't real brothers! Yeah I know, I know.

 

Anyway. I'm watching the Horsemen set and I'm up to early 87 where Ole seems to swiftly disappear. What's the issue there? I know he became booker but that was a few years later right? I miss him, the Horsemen promos were all top notch before Lex turned up. I'm loving it though, especially the tiny TBS studio matches with all that pre-pubescent wailing and marking out. It's my favourite wrestling atmosphere and one that'll never return.

 

And I've got to get this off my chest . . . I fucking despise David Crockett. He is the most irritating on screen wrestling personality I've yet come across. I'm sure I don't have to tell you how terrible his commentary is, the guy is clueless, I mean even 90's Vince had his charm. And the way he tries to speak over the heels when he interviews them, prattling shit from he's gormless face. The way he tries to put himself over as a tough guy at a hint of confrontation. I cheered when Nikita clocked him. Ugh.

[Eduardo]

I remember reading in some magazines, that they were considering turning Mania into Mankind vs Austin vs Rock.

Didn't Foley confirm this in one of his books? Also wasn't the story that Shawn Michaels went to Vince McMahon and told Vince that 'Mania main events should be one on one?

[Victator]

Yeah I think he did. All blurs together after awhile.

[blueminister]

Bloody hell, I've only just discovered that Ole and Arn aren't real brothers! Yeah I know, I know.

Even more odd considering they were never presented as fake brothers!

[Johnny Sorrow]

Bloody hell, I've only just discovered that Ole and Arn aren't real brothers! Yeah I know, I know.

Even more odd considering they were never presented as fake brothers!

 

They didn't in 85-86, but in 90 when Ole rejoined the Horsemen they did call them brothers.

[Loss]

It's Minnesota - brothers, cousins, whatev.

[NintendoLogic]

So A W, the Kobe rape joke guy, got released today. To say that he isn't taking it very well would be quite the understatement. From his Twitter:

 

A W ‏@AWPromotions

@Linda_McMahon : Creates jobs my ass!! I'm fired thanks to you and your campaign.

[blueminister]

Bloody hell, I've only just discovered that Ole and Arn aren't real brothers! Yeah I know, I know.

Even more odd considering they were never presented as fake brothers!

 

They didn't in 85-86, but in 90 when Ole rejoined the Horsemen they did call them brothers.

 

oh word? my apologies badlittlekitten, it turns out that was a thing that was said at least once

[FLIK]

So A W, the Kobe rape joke guy, got released today. To say that he isn't taking it very well would be quite the understatement. From his Twitter:

 

A W ‏@AWPromotions

@Linda_McMahon : Creates jobs my ass!! I'm fired thanks to you and your campaign.

Eh, he sorta has a point.

 

In another era for this company a line like that wouldn't have been given a second thought. Ofcourse, it's been obvious for a while that we're no longer in that era and he should have known better but still, bit of a harsh punishment for one slip up...

 

Personally i'm not a fan of the ultra politically correct enviroment myself

[Jingus]

I think he was sort of ruined by not going one on one with Shawn at Backlash - the crowd absolutely despised Michaels that night and were ridiculously behind Benoit. HHH was just a distraction to the real story. A clean win over HBK would have really kept the momentum going.

Well, Benoit did get the cleanest win imaginable over HBK. Made him tap out, to the Sharpshooter, in Montreal, with Earl Hebner making the call (and when the match happened live, I laughed my ass off when they did the ref bump and Earl runs out as the replacement and the crowd gets so pissed off). That's pretty definitive.

 

However, it's funny you say the match should've been one-on-one between Shawn and Benoit, because I remember a lot of people back in 2004 bitching and moaning about Michaels shoehorning himself into this feud when it was supposed to be strictly between Chris and Trips. And it's even funnier when you remember:

Also wasn't the story that Shawn Michaels went to Vince McMahon and told Vince that 'Mania main events should be one on one?

Finally, it would've seemed much less like a gold watch title reign if they'd actually DONE something with Benoit during that tenure. They weren't even trying. Aside from endless rematches with HHH, what did he ever get to accomplish with the belt? He had a mini-feud with Kane in the undercard, and did some skits with a debuting Eugene. Whoopty fucking doo. They treated him like he was just a seat filler until the whole Evolution infighting was set up.

[Victator]

The World Title was still the centerpiece of the promotion. Most of HHH's storylines revolved around him getting another shot at Benoit.

[KrisZ]

Regarding the AW firing.......me thinks this is a work. Fired guys don't immediately go off like he did.

[Tim Evans]

If it's not a work, it probably wasn't a good idea to Retweet hundreds of people bashing the company right after he made the Kobe remark.

[cm funk]

Between Survivor Series 98 (Rock-Mankind double turn), the series of title switches between Rock and Mankind, the Austin-McMahon feud peaking at the Rumble and the Valentine's Day cage match, and Rock-Austin at Mania.......that was arguably the hottest peak of the attitude era

 

In a sense it was a "gold watch" for Foley, and they sort of pushed it like that, the average slob who nobody thought would ever make it that far winning the biggest prize, but he was absolutely a vital and irreplaceable component of what they were doing at the time.

 

Eddie had been the most over guy in the company for at least 6 months, crowds were going nuts for him everywhere and he was popping big ratings.....they wanted to build around him as the next big superstar until whatever happened there where he or the company or both decided he couldn't handle that role

 

Benoit getting the belt was a "lifetime achievement award" sort of thing for sure. He'd been the darling of the hardcore fans for years, the hardest working, most respected guy who was always over in whatever role you gave him. Gave up the WCW belt to go to WWE, paid his dues in the company, all the hardcore fans wanted to see him get that final push over the top.......WM20 with Benoit was built as "thank you to all of you diehard fans who've stuck with us, here's your moment"......and the aftermath at least past the first month showed that it was just a token honor and they were waiting to get back to regular business

 

I've always been interested to know when and how things went off course from the Benoit/Lesnar/Heyman buildup where Benoit had to win the Rumble to get another shot at Lesnar.....to ending up with Benoit taking his shot at the WHC and Eddie beating Lesnar. That all went down before Brock decided to leave, and I think they knew Goldberg was leaving.....they built up Benoit v. Brock for a few months on SD.....that had to have been the WM plan when they started that. HHH not having an opponent was the only reason?

[NintendoLogic]

Apparently, the last straw for A W was this tweet from Thursday:

 

A W ‏@AWPromotions

The PTP are God's gift to the tag team division!! #ChumpChamps suck, @WWEUsos suck, Primo&Epico suck too and by the way. Where's Rosa? #MIA

For those who are unaware, Rosa Mendes recently filed a police report because her fiance was beating her.

 

And yes, he's having one hell of a Twitter meltdown.

[rzombie1988]

Between Survivor Series 98 (Rock-Mankind double turn), the series of title switches between Rock and Mankind, the Austin-McMahon feud peaking at the Rumble and the Valentine's Day cage match, and Rock-Austin at Mania.......that was arguably the hottest peak of the attitude era

 

In a sense it was a "gold watch" for Foley, and they sort of pushed it like that, the average slob who nobody thought would ever make it that far winning the biggest prize, but he was absolutely a vital and irreplaceable component of what they were doing at the time.

 

Eddie had been the most over guy in the company for at least 6 months, crowds were going nuts for him everywhere and he was popping big ratings.....they wanted to build around him as the next big superstar until whatever happened there where he or the company or both decided he couldn't handle that role

 

Benoit getting the belt was a "lifetime achievement award" sort of thing for sure. He'd been the darling of the hardcore fans for years, the hardest working, most respected guy who was always over in whatever role you gave him. Gave up the WCW belt to go to WWE, paid his dues in the company, all the hardcore fans wanted to see him get that final push over the top.......WM20 with Benoit was built as "thank you to all of you diehard fans who've stuck with us, here's your moment"......and the aftermath at least past the first month showed that it was just a token honor and they were waiting to get back to regular business

 

I've always been interested to know when and how things went off course from the Benoit/Lesnar/Heyman buildup where Benoit had to win the Rumble to get another shot at Lesnar.....to ending up with Benoit taking his shot at the WHC and Eddie beating Lesnar. That all went down before Brock decided to leave, and I think they knew Goldberg was leaving.....they built up Benoit v. Brock for a few months on SD.....that had to have been the WM plan when they started that. HHH not having an opponent was the only reason?

I don't remember any teases of a longterm Benny/Brock program. There was the one SD match and thats it.

 

What's up with DVDVR lately? They've been down more than they've been up. I've never seen so many problems with a website.