Brock is back

[sek69]

I think the Titantron shot was to make the fans think Rock would be coming out (since Cena called him to come to the ring right before).

 

The fans chanting We Want Brock kind of added to it for me, since at first it came off like "aren't we smart, we read the sheets and know you're talking to Brock but we don't really expect to see him" to marking out like a 5 year old when his music actually hit.

 

 

This angle has the potential to be awesome since Brock's exactly the guy most Cena haters want to see fighting him. I loved him kicking Cena's hat after the F5, made it look like he was saying "fuck you, and fuck your stupid hat too".

[rovert]

According to PWI Cena had to stall during his promo because Brock showed up late (30 seconds before he came out)

 

I wonder what the quarter hour will be as there was some severe pauses and thinking out loud points during promo can easily see causal with short attention spans turning the channel.

[El-P]

Watched the show for obvious reasons.

_The Rock announcing he wants to be WWE champ is interesting me. He was pretty awesome once again, head and shoulder above everyone else.

_CM Punk vs Mark Henry was a very good match, I enjoyed it a lot. The post-match angle, not so much. Rehash of Jake Roberts vs Jerry Lawler in 96, and those aren't good memories. But, hey, more Jericho vs Punk can only be good.

_I thought Cena's promo dragged, and I'm not sold at all on him turning heel. I don't think WWE have the balls, sadly. I really wonder what Lesnar will look like, he hasn't worked in years, and he sucked ass in New Japan last time he did. That said, I'm interested in that too.

_Alberto del Rio is still fun. I'm not getting Sheamus' character at all though. His gimmick is that he's really pale and a celtic warrior ? Man, he should come out to True Norvegian Black Metal and be managed by a Klan member, that would be more radical.

_The Cobra is retarded like Mr. Socko or the Worm were, but Santino really good at what he does. I guess he's Scotty Too Hotty and Funkasaurus is Rikishi. 2000 feel indeed.

_Lord Tensai is cute. It's funny how it's totally reversed psychology on WWE's part. Usually the outside world doesn't even exist, but there you have a guy who was an undercarder coming back from Japan as a star because he made it big there. Interesting.

 

Still way too much talking and useless video game clones (man, that Miz vs Riley match...), I still can't stand the way it's presented (those backstage vignettes just have that horrible flat timing, which added to really poor acting makes them quite painfull most of the time, and it's been ten years + of doing the same), the ring announcer is the most uncharismatic you can think of, but I admit Rock + Punk + Jericho + Tensai + Lesnar kinda makes me want to watch more. After 13 years, I may get back at following the product more closely...

[Frankensteiner]

I can't remember the last time Raw was that exciting. Last night was like a call back to '98 -'99, only with the added bonus of a really good match.

[NintendoLogic]

So if Brock has a good run this time around, he's pretty much a lock for the WON HOF, right?

[Loss]

I hope not, but he'll probably get in for his accomplishments that have nothing to do with wrestling.

 

Did Brock draw the first time around in WWE?

[flyonthewall2983]

Brock/Goldberg drew flies

[Loss]

That match is hardly anything to hang a HOF career on. But if that's Lesnar's case, Goldberg -- who has other positives that Brock doesn't -- is a much stronger candidate.

[NintendoLogic]

My recollection is that Brock didn't draw well, but he also headlined when the overall product was arguably the worst it's ever been. It'll be interesting to see how he works the mic. He was generally considered a below average promo during his first WWE run, but he drew millions with his shit talk in UFC.

[Cox]

Can Brock even realistically get on the ballot? Didn't Dave set a minimum of ten years in wrestling to get on the ballot? He wrestled in developmental for about a year, in WWE for two years, and then worked an extremely part time schedule in New Japan for about a year. That would mean he would have to wrestle another six years in order to become eligible for the Hall of Fame. Does anybody realistically see Lesnar, who has never stuck with anything longer than 3-4 years at a time, sticking around long enough to get eligible for the HOF?

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

I think it's ten years after their debut under the revised criteria that didn't exist when Angle got in. If it was ten complete years as a wrestler, Rock wouldn't have gotten in when he did. Either way, Dave said in last year's HOF issue that Brock is on the ballot this year.

[Jingus]

Can Brock even realistically get on the ballot? Didn't Dave set a minimum of ten years in wrestling to get on the ballot? He wrestled in developmental for about a year, in WWE for two years, and then worked an extremely part time schedule in New Japan for about a year. That would mean he would have to wrestle another six years in order to become eligible for the Hall of Fame. Does anybody realistically see Lesnar, who has never stuck with anything longer than 3-4 years at a time, sticking around long enough to get eligible for the HOF?

You're forgetting, MMA = Pro Wres. His time in UFC counts.

[Loss]

I have no problem with Brock's sole motivation being money. But it's interesting how Dave can point out that he may not make it through the year, point out that he probably won't work as hard in the ring as he did the last time he was in WWE and point out that he hopes they use him wisely on promos because he's not really a great WWE-style promo, and still be excited about his return and still be a fan. What's to like in all of that?

[goc]

I have no problem with Brock's sole motivation being money. But it's interesting how Dave can point out that he may not make it through the year, point out that he probably won't work as hard in the ring as he did the last time he was in WWE and point out that he hopes they use him wisely on promos because he's not really a great WWE-style promo, and still be excited about his return and still be a fan. What's to like in all of that?

Maybe the problem is you've accepted what Dave has said as 100% fact instead of waiting to see his first match.

[Loss]

My point is more that I don't understand all of those things being said by someone who still thinks signing him was a good move. It doesn't make sense to me. Not that I believe it all (I probably do believe some of it, but that's not my point in bringing it up.)

 

I've seen plenty of Brock. 10 years ago I didn't get it. He just felt like an Ultimate Warrior/Sid type, but one who was being hyped as a great worker because he had great athletic accomplishments outside of wrestling. And I like Warrior and Sid just fine at times, but most people don't look at them as workhorses.

 

I admit that some of my negative reaction to Brock has nothing to do with Brock. Part of it is a guy getting so much hype when I can't point to much he did in 2002-2003 that interested me. Seeing his name in the WON for the past several years I understood because he was in UFC, yet I didn't need to hear about his football exploits and Dave seemingly ordaining everything else in his life as newsworthy. Do we get ongoing updates on what Mohammad Hassan is doing outside of wrestling? Do we get coverage on Batista every week, who is a much bigger pro wrestling star who had way more success?

 

I liked Rock/Brock at Summerslam, which was built pretty much entirely on WWE production putting together great video packages and Rock carrying the big match. I liked his matches with Undertaker and Eddy, but again, more because of who he was working with. Hopefully he surprises me and I end up liking this run.

[Bix]

Loss, what did you think of his Smackdown matches with Rey and Benoit?

[Loss]

Great performances by Rey and Benoit with a guy who could do some athletically impressive things, but couldn't really work a match. That was my impression at the time.

 

The Ironman with Angle is what stands out more than anything, because it was a match that was more of a mutual effort, and ... yeah.

[Matt D]

Someone asked me for recommendations and the first two matches that came to mind were the Eddy match and the UT MSG Cage match (but I'm biased because I was at that one live). How has WM XIX aged?

[Loss]

Anyway, I don't want to be the guy raining on the parade of Lesnar fans, so I'll bow out here and go talk about wrestling I enjoy.

[Dylan Waco]

I'm actually trying to think of any way in which Lesnar compares to Sid or Warrior as a worker and i'm really struggling.

[cm funk]

Brock came along right at the time the company was really bottoming out post boom period, and right at the time they started the brand split. I think there's way too many factors totally independent from him to make a fair assessment of what his drawing power could have been.

 

I also think they hurt his drawing potential by turning him babyface as quickly as they did (just 3 months after he won the belt from Rock they took it off him and turned him face so he could chase it going into WM). The money was in building up a face to chase the monster heel. Then, they turned him heel again just a few months after Mania realizing they'd made a mistake.

 

It was really just a constant bungling of his character after the first 6 months. Heyman (head writer of SD at the time) has gone on record saying he fought the babyface turn but was overruled. I don't think it's a stretch to think HHH had a hand in this as well, IE. he was the dominant heel champ on RAW, so SD shouldn't have a dominant heel champ upstaging him. 02-03 was HHH at his absolute worst.

[Jingus]

My point is more that I don't understand all of those things being said by someone who still thinks signing him was a good move.

It's totally a money thing. WWE has been in a state of quiet desperation for years now; they know they need to build new draws, but it's like they've forgotten how or are afraid to try. With Brock, they're getting the single biggest draw in MMA history and hoping that he'll bring along some new/returning fans. Will it work? Who knows.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I'm actually trying to think of any way in which Lesnar compares to Sid or Warrior as a worker and i'm really struggling.

As a worker, not at all. He's way better. But he has that unspoken charisma that Warrior and Sid had. I don't give a shit about Brock's "real life credentials". I'm jacked because Brock is Brock Lesnar , Monster Pro Wrestler.

[El-P]

From what I've seen of Lesnar, being most of his PPV matches a few years after the fact, he was a green guy with tons of potential. Much better than Sid or Warrior, he doesn't even compare to be honest. Had a bunch of really good match, and he was a monster that could work. In a way he looked like he could be the second coming of Vader, including the same flaws (bumping too much too soon). And he had a lot of charisma, and was managed by Heyman, who was seen as "Mr. Good Wrestling" back then opposing Stephy. Now, in reality, Lesnar didn't do that much, and I think that also plays into the fact his aura has grown. With the years going by, and especially with his UFC experience, Lesner has turned in the mind of people, including Meltz, into some kind of lost great worker of the last decade, the huge star that could be. In reality, Lesnar was just a really excellent rookie pushed to the top because of his size and body, who didn't like wrestling and quit because he was fed up and didn't care, and never drew a dime back then. Then he went to New Japan and stuck up the joint there. It's been how many years since he worked a match ?

Lesnar coming back today is another way of banking on nostalgia, he's not the future, and I understand Meltz thinking this guy may just pack it up if he's not happy. Then, Meltz remains of Lesnar mark because of UFC. I think everybody is overestimating Lesnar both as a draw and a worker at this point. I'm very interested to say the least, because I enjoyed early Lesnar a lot, but I know he could also be a huge failure if he doens't want to work. We'll see.

[goc]

As excited as I am about Brock coming back, I am a bit pessimistic about how much effect he will really have on PPV buys. I'm assuming WWE had to pay him a ton of money to get him to come back and work the schedule it's reported he's going to work. How do you recoup that? You'd almost have to use him on every PPV from now until Mania, and surely by the time a year rolls around the WWE booking problems will have killed any initial bump he'll provide.