NintendoLogic Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 If All Japan didn't have Mutoh, it wouldn't even exist today. Motoko Baba was going to pull the plug before he stepped in and bought the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Topically related, Russo's time in TNA shouldn't be overlooked when considering his body of work. One of the main reasons the company is looked at as the terminally running in place zombie it became is how he completely booked it into the ground when there was a time (a brief one, but still) where there could have been something there. I'm still amazed that a wrestling company can have an entire crowd chanted to fire somebody who doesn't even appear on screen and just brush it off. The whole crowd wanted Russo gone, yet they kept with him. Now, if he was great and you did that maybe... but it was Vince Russo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I've said it before and I'll say it until the end of time...how anybody could look at the entire body of Vince Russo's "work" and NOT consider him to be the worst booker of all time - by a LANDSLIDE - is beyond me. I don't even see any rational argument against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Ewiak Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Any actual discussion about this, should have the implicit undercurrent of, "aside from Vince Russo, of course, because he's the worst." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Those are things Mutoh did outside of the job of booking though. Buying the company and helping it with star power aren't tied into his performance as the companies booker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Can we throw Jim Cornette in here as a bad booker. If you strip out the good promos and matches and just look at the inner workings of SMW you have a pretty poorly booked area. Too many screw jobs, constant undercutting of his top faces, never moved a belt at the right time. His saving grace during this time period was filling the promotion with guys who could talk and work and staying out of their way as much as possible. OVW seems to be his magnum opus as a booker. From what I've seen he did a pretty good job of booking things. There was some silliness here and there but nothing outright offensive. His Ring of Honor run should be a candidate for a worst all time booking run though. It would be easier to talk about the talent he didn't ruin during his run with the company. He put the belts on the All Night Express when they weren't under contract and had to scramble after King left for TNA. He kept the belts on World's Greatest Tag Team for a really long time despite the fact that the fanbase wasn't really taking to them at all. He used the Headbangers when they were at least a decade past their primes and in general aren't a good fit for the product. Worked MMA crap that everyone but Jim Cornette hated. Was so behind the times that he was still trying stuff that fans would have mocked by the late 90s. In general, he was so terrible as a booker that the company is still feeling some of the effects of his absolute incompetence. And just to throw it out there. But his shoot where he booked his version of the Invasion was absolutely terrible. Vince Russo did a better job with his version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Can someone, ANYONE, explain to me why Russo keeps getting shots with TNA? What does Dixie and co see in him? He's done NOTHING on his own (the WWF Stuff he was with others and worked with Vince, Kevin Kelly's interviews on Place To Be Podcast go over it), and trashed what he's touched…WHY does he keep getting chances? What are they thinking over there? I am actually really interested in what the fuck they are thinking each time he gets the call or is the "Secret Booker" or whatever…makes no sense, almost like they don't want TNA to succeed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Cornette's run in ROH obviously wasn't his finest hour, but the MMA talking point is ridiculously overblown. People were acting like Cornette was trying to turn ROH into UWFi when it was literally only Richards and O'Reilly doing the MMA stuff. It's as bad as the people complaining about Smoky Mountain of Honor because he booked a finish with an ether-soaked rag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 And just to throw it out there. But his shoot where he booked his version of the Invasion was absolutely terrible. Vince Russo did a better job with his version. Before you mentioned this, I was about to. His "Everything is fake but THIS is real" bullshit was something he'd rake Russo over the coals for in interviews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Cornette's run in ROH obviously wasn't his finest hour, but the MMA talking point is ridiculously overblown. People were acting like Cornette was trying to turn ROH into UWFi when it was literally only Richards and O'Reilly doing the MMA stuff. It's as bad as the people complaining about Smoky Mountain of Honor because he booked a finish with an ether-soaked rag. I don't think he was trying to turn it into UWFi but it shows how out of touch he was as a booker at the time. The talent hated it and the fans hated it. That's the sign of being a bad booker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 The Wrestling Observer (via Wrestlezone.com) reports that Vince Russo was in attendance backstage at the Lucha Underground tapings that were held in Los Angeles, California last night (Feb. 21). Per the report, Russo will attend the tapings tonight as well. Earlier this month, there were rumors of Lucha Underground looking to meet with Vince Russo to possibly join the creative team. Lucha Underground executive producer Eric Van Wangenen flat out denied the rumors on Twitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaymeFuture Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 This fucker just won't go away, will he. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Seriously, what is his appeal...what has he done since he left WWF and did things as a main guy that has worked? And I liked NWO 2000 before all the injuries!! In all seriousness, what is his appeal? What makes people say "Hey, I know how to make things better, lets get Russo...." Is it cause of his ONE good run in WWF that was part of a group and had someone with a TON of power keeping him honest (Vince?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Everyone that hires Russo thinks they can harness him and cipher out his bullshit from good creative. The problem is no company besides WWE has had the infrastructure to do that, and even the successful stuff he did there is now regarded as cringeworthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Seriously, what is his appeal...what has he done since he left WWF and did things as a main guy that has worked? And I liked NWO 2000 before all the injuries!! In all seriousness, what is his appeal? What makes people say "Hey, I know how to make things better, lets get Russo...." Is it cause of his ONE good run in WWF that was part of a group and had someone with a TON of power keeping him honest (Vince?) Everyone knows his name & keeps talking about him, keeping him relevant. He's the Babadook of pro-wrestling. People seemingly bring him in because people start talking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 In a way, and since I'm not a LU follower anyhow, I'm looking forward to seeing how Russo can add to his legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Russo blocked me on twitter suggesting he's been talking to Konnan who's been talking to LU on his behalf to come in and write for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaufman316 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Russo blocked me on twitter suggesting he's been talking to Konnan who's been talking to LU on his behalf to come in and write for them. Where there's smoke there's fire...and yeah, this can't be reposted, shared, and IM'd enough for the LU lockerroom re: VR and "lucha libres" (sic) (esp. at 1m25) : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 http://www.mikemooneyham.com/1999/09/16/vince-russo-joins-wcw/ He has stated in the past that he doesn’t watch Mexican or Japanese wrestling, and that a Mexican or Japanese wrestler could never get over in the United States, updating that belief with the warning that the Luchadores in WCW better be able to speak English and cut an effective promo or they will be history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Russo blocked me on twitter suggesting he's been talking to Konnan who's been talking to LU on his behalf to come in and write for them. Konnan has to be involved in this, selling Russo to the non-wrestling people on the El Rey side. Ed Ferrara and Disco are Russo apologists and regular guests on the MLW podcasts. Even Bauer is a bit of a Russo apologists with the "great ideas....just needs to be channeled and harnessed" line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 It amazes me to no end that a guy with such a track record of being a proven complete failure over the last 16 years (to be generous) is still getting some attention by people in charge of pro-wrestling TV programs. It's totally mind-blowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Ewiak Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 It amazes me to no end that a guy with such a track record of being a proven complete failure over the last 16 years (to be generous) is still getting some attention by people in charge of pro-wrestling TV programs. It's totally mind-blowing. To be fair to the wrestling business, the only people who seem to see Russo in any way a positive are a few undercard TNA guys who only got decent storylines under his watch, the WCW guys who got a big push under his watch (Konnan kinda/Jarrett), and then non-wrestling people who happen to be running wrestling shows (Dixie Carter/possibly LU). It's just really bad f'ing luck that two of the people who'd be selling bookers to non-wrestling people also are fans of Russo because he helped out their careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strand Peanut Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 To anyone who doesn't follow wrestling closely, I'm sure his resume blows everyone else out the water. You can understand why people would meet with him. But.. If I was a wrestler, I'd be getting TNA weekly ppv tapes to the bosses ASAP. ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 FROM 411: "The Wrestling Observer as an update regarding the recent rumors surrounding former WWE, WCW, and TNA booker Vince Russo attending the recent Lucha Underground TV tapings last weekend and his presence backstage. Previously, there were rumors of Russo meetings with Lucha Underground to possibly join the writing team. According to the report, Lucha Underground officials held a meeting regarding Russo, but it was said that he would not be hired. Some of the promotion veterans thought the opposite was true, and Russo was coming into as a booker to the company. Company officials then insisted that Russo was not getting a job. Russo said he was only there for an appearance and to produce some content for his podcast. Some backstage at the event said it looked like Russo was trying to get back into the business. During the tapings, Russo was treated very well, but there was a feeling backstage that he did not know anything about the lucha libre wrestling style. While he was backstage, he apparently made a suggestion that the show could use more female wrestlers. His comment was reportedly not taken very well. Vince Russo has denied these reports from Meltzer, and posted the following on his website… After I called Dave Meltzer out last week about his false story claiming that I was in talks with Lucha Underground to join their organization–and that’s why I was going out to LA–through an e-mail Meltzer sent me three scenarios that his “reliable source” told him would go down between me and Lucha. ALL THREE SCENERIOS TURNED OUT TO BE FALSE. So today, Meltzer printed this: Russo apparently made a suggestion that the show needs more female wrestlers and that suggestion wasn’t taken very well. Again—this is an absolute lie. Both on behalf of the Wrestling Observer and Dave Meltzer. I was at Lucha Underground to get content for this site. I suggested NOTHING to NOBODY. And, for the record, Lucha is a one hour show that currently has three women involved in major storylines, a new female who is currently being figured in, and of course, the stunning ring announcer Melissa Santos. I think it’s fair to say that there are women-a-plenty within the actual 44 minutes of the alloted television time.. How people pay, read and listen to this fictitious crap is absolutely beyond me. And, Dave—don’t e-mail me again. You’ve had enough chances. You have zero credibility when it comes to Vince Russo, and you have now proven that not once, but twice over a 6-day span. Period—end of story. Are you that intrigued, fascinated and jealous of me that you just can’t keep my name out of your mouth? Print THE TRUTH, or don’t print anything at all." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricR Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 Cornette's run in ROH obviously wasn't his finest hour, but the MMA talking point is ridiculously overblown. People were acting like Cornette was trying to turn ROH into UWFi when it was literally only Richards and O'Reilly doing the MMA stuff. It's as bad as the people complaining about Smoky Mountain of Honor because he booked a finish with an ether-soaked rag. So I didn't see where most of the UWFi stuff went, but I did see the Davey/Tony Kozina "Pancrase Rules" match that they aired on their old TV, and it was the only time I've liked a Davey Richards match. It seemed like a good way to neuter his dogshit tendencies in a match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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