The Chief Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 For all of you fantasy bookers out there who are lining up your next five Undertaker WrestleMania opponents, your one last Hulk Hogan run, your wish for Steve Austin to risk permanent paralysis, your total unwillingness to accept MAJOR factors such as age, injuries, career ending surgeries: You should surrender all complaining rights if these matches actually happen. It bothers me that people who realistically expect these things are the same ones complaining when Bret Hart vs. Vince McMahon isn't a good "match." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 You're right Chief, but it is how wrestling audiences have been conditioned for a long time between everyone coming out of retirement over and over and all of the Wrestlemania one-off appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 If Shawn comes back it must be to put over a talent that needs it No just no. If Shawn comes back it needs to be for the right reasons alough hes had a great career and doesnt need to return. He had his retirement match. If he did come back to wrestle the one guy id pick is Rock. Dude do you understand how the wrestling business works. Older talent puts over new talent to create stars. You should lose your Dr. title for being so wrong . Id rather older talent not put new ones over and just sting to new vs new. Sorry if you dont like it but I just hate the idea of a fav of mine jobbing out to someone who cant lace his boots. We dont need another legacy being tarnished like Slaughters. If new guys are that talented they dont need a old star to make them good. HBK vs Rock is a dream match, I cant say the same thing for Sting vs HHH. I don't think you get it. Historically, older talent has put over young talent for obvious reasons. But why though. Surely they can get over without relying on the older stars and it probably wouldnt make a difference a decade from now when fans look back on some match. It doesnt hurt to have a odd match where a Legend wrestles a legend on a PPV thats considered a dream match. Its like saying does Taker really need to job to Wyatt at Mania because hes over anyway. Its just a shame WWE doesnt have the same confidence in Cesaro or Axel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 He is not over though to that extent. If all you do is have legend vs. legend matches in marquee positions with everyone underneath that, how can they ever be elevated. Will everyone wake up one day and suddenly believe that the underneath stars are now legends? Wrestling has been a time honored position where older stars had to be phased out and newer stars pushed into their position. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't but this has been the cycle of what has been successful for over a hundred years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 For all of you fantasy bookers out there who are lining up your next five Undertaker WrestleMania opponents, your one last Hulk Hogan run, your wish for Steve Austin to risk permanent paralysis, your total unwillingness to accept MAJOR factors such as age, injuries, career ending surgeries: You should surrender all complaining rights if these matches actually happen. It bothers me that people who realistically expect these things are the same ones complaining when Bret Hart vs. Vince McMahon isn't a good "match." There were plenty of ways to put that match together differently to make it more effective though, even without anything more strenuous being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 For all of you fantasy bookers out there who are lining up your next five Undertaker WrestleMania opponents, your one last Hulk Hogan run, your wish for Steve Austin to risk permanent paralysis, your total unwillingness to accept MAJOR factors such as age, injuries, career ending surgeries: You should surrender all complaining rights if these matches actually happen. It bothers me that people who realistically expect these things are the same ones complaining when Bret Hart vs. Vince McMahon isn't a good "match." There were plenty of ways to put that match together differently to make it more effective though, even without anything more strenuous being done. I agree. They really needed to shave ten minutes off that thing. I do think a great worker can go with some tools missing from his toolbox. We've got hundreds of examples of guys working through muscle tears, broken bones, etc. However, I think if you have an injury or condition that prohibits you from taking a single bump without risking serious brain damage, paralysis or death, you just shouldn't be wrestling at all. Not a smoke and mirrors match, not "working around" a stroke, nothing. It's not how I want to remember any of these guys and it's kind of uncomfortable to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Iamthedoctor, what benefit would be provided from old vs. old facing each other besides some warmed over nostalgia that doesn't fill the void of the wrestling business being a continuous cycle? I also would be intrigued to know who from this era can't lace the boots of the legends you are projecting up. I actually agree with his point, at least in regards to Austin. If Austin is coming back for one last match, it's going to be a tribute and celebration of his career. He hasn't wrestled since 2003. Nobody wants to see him come back and lose. C'mon. There isn't any money in that IMO, when you've got this legend who still makes them money just selling merch and being in video games, who's podcasts on the network pop bigger viewership #'s than anything else on it. I see someone in this thread talking about Bryan and Austin as a dream match......who is that a dream match to? What planet? Bryan and Austin makes no sense. Bryan beating Austin makes no sense. I see Bryan and HBK as a dream match and Bryan going over and getting a rub from that......Bryan and Austin has never been a match that I thought "oh I want to see that!" If Austin comes back for one more match, at Cowboy stadium for what will likely be a record breaking WM......the only match that makes sense to me is Taker as a double retirement. Hogan is the only other "dream match" but that match is never happening, and I wouldn't want to see it happen at this point. I can see Austin being in good enough shape to have one more good match......Hogan should never ever be wrestling again And Austin isn't going to be one of those guys who retires and comes back. He hasn't wrestled in over a decade. If he comes back it's just a one last time ride into the sunset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 if Austin comes back then IMO it needs to be against a heel and it should NOT be against another retired or semi-retired guy. As much as the novelty of seeing Austin wrestle one last match would draw people in, I think if it's just against some other oldtimer like Taker or HHH then there would be nothing intriguing about that. I just see a match like that falling flat in practice. Austin is a guy who is most compelling when there is some hate involved. Punk really would have been the perfect opponent for him as a brash, younger champion calling him out for being a drunk bully, etc. That ship seems to have sailed as even if Punk's first UFC fight happens this year and totally flops, I don't see him going back to wrestling in time for WM 32 (if he ever goes back at all). I mean really, who else is an interesting opponent for austin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 if Austin comes back then IMO it needs to be against a heel and it should NOT be against another retired or semi-retired guy. As much as the novelty of seeing Austin wrestle one last match would draw people in, I think if it's just against some other oldtimer like Taker or HHH then there would be nothing intriguing about that. I just see a match like that falling flat in practice. Austin is a guy who is most compelling when there is some hate involved. Punk really would have been the perfect opponent for him as a brash, younger champion calling him out for being a drunk bully, etc. That ship seems to have sailed as even if Punk's first UFC fight happens this year and totally flops, I don't see him going back to wrestling in time for WM 32 (if he ever goes back at all). I mean really, who else is an interesting opponent for austin? How would Austin possibly be a heel at this point? When he was a heel in 96-97 the fans cheered him and turned him face. When they did the heel turn in 2001 it didn't really work. The WWE Universe doesn't want to boo Steve Austin. Who is this person on the roster that will turn Austin heel in the eyes of the fans? And where is the money in trying to make him a heel? Like I said....he makes more money for the company just selling merch and being in games and being a legend. He's still one of their top merch movers and he hasn't wrestled in over a decade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Austin just needs someone to run into his fist a lot. He's good enough to sell without needing to bump a whole lot. I still think the best way to elevate someone with these scenarios is to run a tag match though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 if Austin comes back then IMO it needs to be against a heel and it should NOT be against another retired or semi-retired guy. As much as the novelty of seeing Austin wrestle one last match would draw people in, I think if it's just against some other oldtimer like Taker or HHH then there would be nothing intriguing about that. I just see a match like that falling flat in practice. Austin is a guy who is most compelling when there is some hate involved. Punk really would have been the perfect opponent for him as a brash, younger champion calling him out for being a drunk bully, etc. That ship seems to have sailed as even if Punk's first UFC fight happens this year and totally flops, I don't see him going back to wrestling in time for WM 32 (if he ever goes back at all). I mean really, who else is an interesting opponent for austin? How would Austin possibly be a heel at this point? When he was a heel in 96-97 the fans cheered him and turned him face. When they did the heel turn in 2001 it didn't really work. The WWE Universe doesn't want to boo Steve Austin. Who is this person on the roster that will turn Austin heel in the eyes of the fans? And where is the money in trying to make him a heel? Like I said....he makes more money for the company just selling merch and being in games and being a legend. He's still one of their top merch movers and he hasn't wrestled in over a decade I said it needs to be AGAINST a heel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I see someone in this thread talking about Bryan and Austin as a dream match......who is that a dream match to? What planet? Bryan and Austin makes no sense. Bryan beating Austin makes no sense. I see Bryan and HBK as a dream match and Bryan going over and getting a rub from that......Bryan and Austin has never been a match that I thought "oh I want to see that!" If Austin comes back for one more match, at Cowboy stadium for what will likely be a record breaking WM......the only match that makes sense to me is Taker as a double retirement. Hogan is the only other "dream match" but that match is never happening, and I wouldn't want to see it happen at this point. I can see Austin being in good enough shape to have one more good match......Hogan should never ever be wrestling again And Austin isn't going to be one of those guys who retires and comes back. He hasn't wrestled in over a decade. If he comes back it's just a one last time ride into the sunset You're quick to dismiss Bryan vs. Austin, but your suggestions instead are Hogan and Taker - both of whom are competing for the prize of who's more broken down at this point. On what planet are those compelling matches? They may have been 5-10 years ago, but that ship has sailed. Punk would've been ideal, like I said before - but again, sailed ship. Personally, I don't think Austin should come back, because the WWE has not created any real stars outside of Bryan that would make for a compelling "dream match" - and I don't see that changing in the next 12-13 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I see someone in this thread talking about Bryan and Austin as a dream match......who is that a dream match to? What planet? Bryan and Austin makes no sense. Bryan beating Austin makes no sense. I see Bryan and HBK as a dream match and Bryan going over and getting a rub from that......Bryan and Austin has never been a match that I thought "oh I want to see that!" If Austin comes back for one more match, at Cowboy stadium for what will likely be a record breaking WM......the only match that makes sense to me is Taker as a double retirement. Hogan is the only other "dream match" but that match is never happening, and I wouldn't want to see it happen at this point. I can see Austin being in good enough shape to have one more good match......Hogan should never ever be wrestling again And Austin isn't going to be one of those guys who retires and comes back. He hasn't wrestled in over a decade. If he comes back it's just a one last time ride into the sunset You're quick to dismiss Bryan vs. Austin, but your suggestions instead are Hogan and Taker - both of whom are competing for the prize of who's more broken down at this point. On what planet are those compelling matches? They may have been 5-10 years ago, but that ship has sailed. Punk would've been ideal, like I said before - but again, sailed ship. Personally, I don't think Austin should come back, because the WWE has not created any real stars outside of Bryan that would make for a compelling "dream match" - and I don't see that changing in the next 12-13 months. But you're still framing this as "how does this build for the future" when the concern should be "how do we fill Cowboy Stadium.....how do we get Network buys....how do we make a huge WM and continue to draw money with Austin" I'm going to be a broken record and labor the point.....Austin makes them more money in retirement than most of the guys on the active roster. Why would you actively fuck that up? If Austin wrestles again people want to see a legends match or him kick wham stunnering some jabronis. Nobody is begging for Austin to "pass the torch" to anyone The poor booking and creative....the inability to create new stars.....that's on them and it has nothing to do with Austin wrestling again or not. These are two entirely different things. The fans will reject any "up and coming" guy on the roster put in that spot the same way they're rejecting Reigns right now. And Bryan and Austin just doesn't make sense on any level. There's no natural story there, Bryan doesn't need the rub at all and it would do more harm than good to him. If they wanted to do Bryan and Michaels or Bryan and Regal.....it's a natural story and it makes sense, and those are two guys that Bryan can beat, get a rub, and the fans are happy. Austin isn't jobbing to anyone in his last match, not because he'd refuse to do it, but because it's just dumb. So why would you put Daniel Bryan in that terrible spot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Every year I anxiously await to see which legends will be wrestling at Mania. I hope Austin comes back one year. I'm looking forward to seeing Sting. Rock can keep making as many one-off appearances at Mania as he'd like. Shawn Michaels? One or two more Mania matches would be great. Undertaker, too. Hell, wheel out Flair and Hogan and I'll still pop. WWE needs to build new stars and book the young guys in a way that elevates them to Rock/Austin/Michaels/Taker status? You can shit in one hand and wish in the other and see which one fills up first. Meanwhile, I'm going to enjoy the old guys at Mania (well, the old guys not named HHH, anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 here's the thing about old guys coming in for big attraction matches at WM (and other events): The purpose of doing it should be two-fold. First goal should be to pop the buyrate/attendance for that particular show and make some short-term money. Second goal should be to leverage all those extra viewers into future business by getting them hooked on your current stars/stories. To me, that 2nd goal is where WWE has really failed. Usually the old guys come in at the expense of the young guys rather than enhancing them. The current stars are often made to look like jobbers or less important compared to the old guys like Rock. I hope in the future if they do something like Rock vs. Brock then they are smart enough to realize that it's a perfect chance to showcase all the other guys on the roster in front of all the new/returning viewers it might draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 That was the most exciting opening to a RAW in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I really like this Cena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Where the hell has this John Cena been for the majority of his career? Compared to some heels, Rusev has been downright nice to Cena. Cena just absolutely went ape shit! I loved it! Definitely the best feud going today and I feel like they have only scratched the surface. I don't think they will blow their wad in a week and I really hope this gets extended to Wrestlemania! Good stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Of course Russev still has to win on Sunday. I mean why would we care about Russev if he loses to Cena after getting destroyed tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I just hope Rusev doesn't get a bullshit DQ win or something like that. If he is going to job at Mania at least make him looks as strong as possible this Sunday. I legit marked the fuck out at Ambrose giving a shout out to Carlos Cabrera (at least that's who I think he was talking about). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Damn I'm pumped to hear The Dream. This has the potential to be really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Feels like one of the first times where you have a good 4-6 guys who all have a case to make for why they should be the ace of the company. Lesnar, Wyatt, Reigns, Cena, Bryan, and Rollins are all kind of hashing out who the real #1 is going forward. Orton will be on their level when he returns. In another era guys like Rusev, Barrett, Cesaro, and Ziggler would be - if not main eventers - battling for #2 or 3. And then you have Ambrose get a win over Harper that makes you realize he's still really over with crowds. So that's like 12 guys who if this was 1995 could be believable as champ. Even with all the bad booking, there's still that elite 5-7 who are trading that top rank. At some point you'd think they'd acknowledge how stacked the roster is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 They brought in Dusty just to do some pretaped backstage segments? That'll show him for going off script by cutting off Stephanie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Why in the name of God are they booking both reigns and Bryan as heels? How this company is able to do such dumb things is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Trying to figure out the math here but if it is true that Daniel Bryan in about a month defended the title only 1 less time than Brock Lesnar has in about 6 months that is really awful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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