Strummer Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Speaking of Stephanie, it took her the better part of 15 years, but like her husband, she's doing amazing work right now, and is arguably outdoing him. In the past she was effective plenty of times, but never actually good aside from MAYBE the early marriage stuff in 2000. Her delivery is fantastic doing the phony gladhanding "fan friendly" executive shtick and I'm actively looking forward to everything she does now. Heyman doing his thing is fantastic, don't get me wrong, but Stephanie is a really strong contender for best non-wrestler performer this year. wanted to bump this because Stephanie has essentially done nothing since the Dusty Rhodes angle ended. That's almost three months ago. All she's done since is basically stand in the background with a shit eating grin on her face and sarcastically clap and feign "yes" chants. I'm sure she'll be doing more when Vince comes back but it's strange how she's almost disappeared from this whole angle after doing arguably the best work of her career. I'm sure being a mother has changed her perspective or maybe Dusty going off script in their segments dampened her enthusiasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Ceasaro working over Titus O'Neil's midsection after Titus had eaten too much Thanksgiving food is probably the strangest "focusing on a body part" work I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Speaking of Stephanie, it took her the better part of 15 years, but like her husband, she's doing amazing work right now, and is arguably outdoing him. In the past she was effective plenty of times, but never actually good aside from MAYBE the early marriage stuff in 2000. Her delivery is fantastic doing the phony gladhanding "fan friendly" executive shtick and I'm actively looking forward to everything she does now. Heyman doing his thing is fantastic, don't get me wrong, but Stephanie is a really strong contender for best non-wrestler performer this year. wanted to bump this because Stephanie has essentially done nothing since the Dusty Rhodes angle ended. That's almost three months ago. All she's done since is basically stand in the background with a shit eating grin on her face and sarcastically clap and feign "yes" chants. I'm sure she'll be doing more when Vince comes back but it's strange how she's almost disappeared from this whole angle after doing arguably the best work of her career. I'm sure being a mother has changed her perspective or maybe Dusty going off script in their segments dampened her enthusiasm The whole "angle" if you can call it that, has had no direction for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I feel like the tipping point was around Battleground. Maybe the high water mark was the Rhodes Bros winning the tag titles. There's no uniform cut off of course, but I feel generally before that point, everything had a sense of direction and a purpose, and everything that on paper looked bad (long Hunter and Steph segments, them burying everything in promos, Big Show crying, screwing Bryan, etc.) was actually good and came off well in execution. I mean, I was THE most sick of Hunter and McMahons I could possibly have been before Summerslam, and if you had told me that we'd have months of Hunter and Steph being insufferable heels cutting neverending burying promos, and I would love the shit out of it, I'd have prbably had you committed. But it happened, and I loved the shit out of it. I thought Hunter and Steph were both great in their roles for those couple months, and the angle felt interesting and like it had a point on a weekly basis. Then on the other side, things started to slip off. Bryan lost a fourth straight screwjob and they stopped protecting him from that, or maybe it was just too much bullshit in such a short space of time for anyone to overcome. The Shield stopped being hired guns and just...went back to being the Shield. Show was fired and brought back and the lawsuit shit happened. Hunter and Steph's promos lost their direction and are now samey. They are also feuding with Orton for no discernible reason. Orton is bad in his role and being killed by the writing. The auxiliary babyfaces that were helping in the big fight - Usos, Rhodes Bros, Dolph, PTP, etc. - have all stopped caring and gone back to the midcard. Nothing below the Orton/Show feud is connected to the Authority angle anymore. Now it's just every other 'Heel GM backs Heel Champ against Babyface Challenger' feud ever. Except they're not even backing their horse properly. And now they're hotshotting the title unification, which has nothing to do with anything. It really feels like, for all intents, the Authority angle is over. It doesn't really matter anymore. Even if Vince were to make his big return (?), it doesn't really feel expected or needed, because the angle has stalled that much. It would feel weird now, even though I'm sure that is what will happen in the near future. But it's just the usual McMahon family farce now, which is ahame because for a while there, it really wasn't and I was enjoying it immensely on a weekly basis. But alas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvd356 Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I just watched The Shield vs Rhodes Brothers from Battleground last night and I have to say it was THE best tag team match I have seen in years. It just kept building and building with great spots sprinkled in, with Dusty & Dean being involved just the right amount. And then bam, the perfect ending with the faces going over. Loved it. Best tag match of the year easily. Top 5 WWE MOTY overall for me, behind Taker/Punk, Brock/Punk & Punk/Cena but ahead of Bryan/Cena. ****1/2 Now I gotta see moarr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I feel like the tipping point was around Battleground. Maybe the high water mark was the Rhodes Bros winning the tag titles. There's no uniform cut off of course, but I feel generally before that point, everything had a sense of direction and a purpose, and everything that on paper looked bad (long Hunter and Steph segments, them burying everything in promos, Big Show crying, screwing Bryan, etc.) was actually good and came off well in execution. I mean, I was THE most sick of Hunter and McMahons I could possibly have been before Summerslam, and if you had told me that we'd have months of Hunter and Steph being insufferable heels cutting neverending burying promos, and I would love the shit out of it, I'd have prbably had you committed. But it happened, and I loved the shit out of it. I thought Hunter and Steph were both great in their roles for those couple months, and the angle felt interesting and like it had a point on a weekly basis. Then on the other side, things started to slip off. Bryan lost a fourth straight screwjob and they stopped protecting him from that, or maybe it was just too much bullshit in such a short space of time for anyone to overcome. The Shield stopped being hired guns and just...went back to being the Shield. Show was fired and brought back and the lawsuit shit happened. Hunter and Steph's promos lost their direction and are now samey. They are also feuding with Orton for no discernible reason. Orton is bad in his role and being killed by the writing. The auxiliary babyfaces that were helping in the big fight - Usos, Rhodes Bros, Dolph, PTP, etc. - have all stopped caring and gone back to the midcard. Nothing below the Orton/Show feud is connected to the Authority angle anymore. Now it's just every other 'Heel GM backs Heel Champ against Babyface Challenger' feud ever. Except they're not even backing their horse properly. And now they're hotshotting the title unification, which has nothing to do with anything. It really feels like, for all intents, the Authority angle is over. It doesn't really matter anymore. Even if Vince were to make his big return (?), it doesn't really feel expected or needed, because the angle has stalled that much. It would feel weird now, even though I'm sure that is what will happen in the near future. But it's just the usual McMahon family farce now, which is ahame because for a while there, it really wasn't and I was enjoying it immensely on a weekly basis. But alas. It seems clear to me, more than usual, that they're flying by the seat of their pants and have no idea what the long range goal is. It seems to me that they had a clear idea and direction when they started the whole "authority" angle, but the whims of whoever (likely Vince) seem to change on a weekly basis. They start things and then drop them, get halfway to something and totally change direction.....it's been very schizo and chaotic creatively. You get stuff like the Dolph/AJ/Big E angle totally fizzling out, Big E basically taken off tv, then brought back with a big babyface push. Which is actually something that is working out....but they basically just dropped an entire angle and hit the reset button because they had no idea where to go with it. They have an idea that Big E is a blue chip prospect, they know that AJ is a star, and they are petty and vindictive when it comes to Dolph missing so much time with the concussion in the middle of a big angle and not filtering himself on social media and interviews, basically. John Cena coming back early seemed to throw them for a loop completely, because throwing the WHC belt on him, burying Del Rio in the process, and rushing a title vs. title match is pretty much the booking of insane people. They've gone into crazy Cena overkill lately and it's sad that they don't seem to have confidence in other performers and the product in general. It can't help that there's been so much backstage upheaval going on. Their head writer quitting unexpectedly, Michael Hayes being suspended or whatever, the recent cleaning house of top level execs.....it seems like things are very chaotic from the top down, and it's reflected in the product. Total Divas and the network launch seem to be contributing to that chaos as well. I also think it's telling that we've known for a long time that they want to end up with Vince vs. HHH/Steph in some form at WM, but they regularly move their own goalposts. In the story they originally plotted Vince would have been back on tv weeks ago and would have been (presumably, since it was logical and all signs were pointing to it) Big Show's secret benefactor. I think when they started this whole deal they had specific big picture ideas which haven't necessarily changed, they just screw up so many little things and it snowballs out of control. They've basically killed their PPV business off the last few months, whoever was in charge of booking so many screwy finishes and booking the shittiest Survivor card in forever needs to be fired. I try to look for the positives with WWE, but they've exhausted my patience lately. Is it possible that Vince has hit senility and is rapidly losing his grip on things? And nobody has the balls and/or is able to tell him no? I think that's as good a bet as any. We all know the stories about his work ethic and his personality, his mood swings, his disposition....the lack of sleep. I've got a bad feeling with him. The guy is almost 70, I think Linda's senate run took a huge toll on him, and if you believe the reports the guy has nowhere near the stamina he used to. Meltzer has reported several times from sources that Vince pushes himself to the limit on Mondays and then essentially crashes from exhaustion for a few days. And I think the odds of him stepping back are slim to none. And HHH isn't stupid, neither is Steph, they have to recognize that Vince's best days are behind him, but he's the boss, and who's got the balls to say that to his face? Vince is not going to hear that, he's way too stubborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I've long imagined Vince as King Theoden, Hunter as Grima Wormtongue, Steph as a complicit Eowyn and Shane as Eomer, banished from the kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I think more than singling out any one person (Vince) or any one thing ("soap opera writers~!" usually), the actual answer is going to be a combination of everything. There's no one factor at fault and no one solution. Vince is a problem. He does come off as an insane old man losing his grip, and his constant changing of minds and weird foibles make it impossible to book logically. Hunter and Steph are problems because they seem to have inherited some of Vince's narrow mindedness and pettyness in terms of how to book and make stars. Hunter is his own problem because of his ego and inability to book himself objectively. The Creative Team is a problem because there are a million of them and are probably all tripping over each other. Some of them don't come from a wrestling background and wouldn't understand certain things. Some of them do come from a wrestling background but are still incompetent. All of them are trying to write stuff to please Vince and not write the best story possible. The WWE Corporate mentality is a problem because it sanitises and homogenises the product so much that nothing is allowed to get over organically, because they seemingly don't want anyone getting over above their station. The structure of the product is a problem, they have what feels like 57 hours of TV to fill every week and this has resulted in everyone wrestling and losing to everyone else a million times already, and things will seemingly only get worse with the Network coming. And so on and so on and so on. The sad thing is that I can't see any way in which things get fixed, in an overall sense. Even if you eliminate one problem (Vince dies, for one morbid example, since that is the only way he'll go) you still have the other 75 problems that remain. It seems impossible that things would be able to change in WWE so completely as to constitute a total overhaul of their business and strategy, which is what would need to happen. So at this point, for me, and I am someone who still watches religiously every week and enjoys a LOT of WWE, for me when you're looking at the overall state of the company, you just have to accept that it is what it is, and enjoy the good bits while you can, because they won't be able to last in that environment. But at the same time, when you look at positives like the first six months of the Shield, the initial Bryan angle, Rhodes Bros, Hall of Pain Henry, whatever, I mean...when they do get it right, they can get it really right. To me that is worth it enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I've long imagined Vince as King Theoden, Hunter as Grima Wormtongue, Steph as a complicit Eowyn and Shane as Eomer, banished from the kingdom. Ah ah ! Awesome picture ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 What will Goldust vs Ryback on Main Event this week will be like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 He worked Koslov and Sheamus (a lot) in ECW in 09. I am not sure if he worked Zeke but that might be an indication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 The question is really whether or not Ryback has enough offense to make the match work. Dustin definitely can hold up his end on offense or defense, but the heat section will determine whether or not the match is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I think I read somewhere dubious that he got yelled at for doing the jackhammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Raw was pretty poor this week. The closing angle was good, but it makes you wonder how they will feel the next couple of TV tapings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I've long imagined Vince as King Theoden, Hunter as Grima Wormtongue, Steph as a complicit Eowyn and Shane as Eomer, banished from the kingdom. I think you might be giving Shane too much credit. Do we really have any evidence that he's good at anything? Eomer could at least lead a decent cavalry charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Nothing against Big Show or Kane, but people changing channels and catching Big Show and Kane still in featured roles is the type of thing that turns people off. I like Big Show as a performer, but he has no business being pushed in main events at this point. It has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with being stale and in the mix for way too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I think they did a pretty good job building him up and you can build up anyone not named Erik Watts, but the payoff would have been a match with Hunter on the undercard of a B-Level show, probably. Even if they did Hunter + Orton vs Big Show that might have been more compelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I've long imagined Vince as King Theoden, Hunter as Grima Wormtongue, Steph as a complicit Eowyn and Shane as Eomer, banished from the kingdom. Great. Now every time I watch a 'Child's Play' movie, I'm going to hear Triple H's voice in my head when the doll talks. "Ya know...I'm your friend till the end-uh." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Jiz Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 This is exactly why anyone who has faith in WWE booking is insane. HIAC numbers for this year: best since 2010. I remember WWE praising Ryback for the numbers last year. Instead, WWE pulls the plug on Bryan before even getting back buyrate numbers. Hilarious. http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_New...cle_74908.shtml Personally, I decided to stop watching completely when Ryback jobbed in a minute back in October. It's the mark of a schizophrenic product. Start-stop pushes frustrate me more than anything else since any investment I make as a viewer is crapped on. WWE needs to determine months in advance who to push and stay the course at least 75% of the time. The solution is simple: Listen to the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Ewiak Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 This is exactly why anyone who has faith in WWE booking is insane. HIAC numbers for this year: best since 2010. I remember WWE praising Ryback for the numbers last year. Instead, WWE pulls the plug on Bryan before even getting back buyrate numbers. Hilarious. http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_New...cle_74908.shtml Personally, I decided to stop watching completely when Ryback jobbed in a minute back in October. It's the mark of a schizophrenic product. Start-stop pushes frustrate me more than anything else since any investment I make as a viewer is crapped on. WWE needs to determine months in advance who to push and stay the course at least 75% of the time. The solution is simple: Listen to the fans. Eh, while I agree that Bryan's stop-start push sucks, it's far more likely that the slight increase in HIAC numbers came from Cena being back after two PPV's, not the Bryan story. Especially when Battleground bombed and NOC didn't exactly have big numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 I sort of agree with both of you. I think everyone who went in to Battleground expected a screwjob. People actually thought Bryan would win at HIAC. Coupled with Cena's return and I think you have the high number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 And HBK as a referee. Not nearly as big a draw as Cena, obviously, but people feel by now that if he's involved with something, it's going to be a big deal and they want to see what it is. I'm still shocked at how Orton is coming away from this like the invisible man. Now you got Cena coming out and calling him an underachiever in the closing angle from RAW. They really don't know what they're doing at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Jiz Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 I'll grant that, but in my defense, it's not Bryan I'm upset about as much as the general trend. Virtually anyone South of CM Punk gets these strong pushes and subsequent burials, rinse repeat. It's shitty storytelling in an art form that already has inherently limited range with respect to capturing human complexity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 I don't get why they insist on keeping Bryan in the mid card. I mean, I get it in the sense he's not the 6'4 jacked guy Vince seems to think all main eventers should be, but holy shit the guy gets far bigger reactions than anyone on the roster. You'd think at some point Vince's desire to make more money would outweigh his big guy fetish, but I guess not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 People have been complaining for 10 plus years about this stuff and for the first time I can really identify with them. Byan jobbing has been pissing me off for over a month now. I guess it didn't bother with people like RVD and their ilk because I didn't have an emotional connection (I know there has been debate over that term here recently) but it killed me when they did it with Bryan. Vince calling Summerslam a "swing and a miss" sealed his fate in retrospect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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