Survivor Series 2013

[Slasher]

Yes but to me the last match at your biggest show of the year is the main event. I mean obviously Taker vs Triple H 1 in Atlanta was the main event but Miz vs Cena was the main event because it was last.

 

The term "main event" has many meanings anyway. I mean in the 70's the "main event" was before the intermission to get people to buy tickets for the next show

I get that. I just can't support that. Anything that refers to a heatless Triple H vs Chris Jericho match over The Rock vs Hulk Hogan as the bigger main event is a no go. Therefore for Wrestlemania, a main event is simply a match that gets more than enough play in the promotion of the event. Of course this implies Bobby Lashley and Umaga was a main event but hey, can't win them all.

[Jmare007]

 

A struggle indeed.

[Superstar Sleeze]

I MET BOB BACKLUND TONIGHT!!!!!! TONIGHT WAS SO FUCKIN BITCHIN!

[Jimmy Redman]

Just because a match is bigger than or has more heat than the match that goes on last doesn't make it the main event. The last match is the main event. It being the main event doesn't say anything to its quality.

[Slasher]

 

A struggle indeed.

That is a heartbreaking image. A hot summer angle once again squandered so they could have a motherfucking soulcrushing return to a painful status quo. They have NO competitors. None at all. Why are they so petrified of experimentation with new main eventers???

[Slasher]

Just because a match is bigger than or has more heat than the match that goes on last doesn't make it the main event. The last match is the main event. It being the main event doesn't say anything to its quality.

Umm seriously?

[Jimmy Redman]

Just because a match is bigger than or has more heat than the match that goes on last doesn't make it the main event. The last match is the main event. It being the main event doesn't say anything to its quality.

Umm seriously?

 

Yes?

 

The main event is the main event. The last match on the card. This is pretty universal EXCEPT in cases like the old 'before intermission' Hogan main event, or a MITB cash in coming after the main event, or a 'double main event' card, or SNME cards, those kinds of examples where the match that is built and sold and named as the main event doesn't go on last. But a main event isn't suddenly not a main event because there are other matches on the card that have bigger stars or turned out better or stole the show from the actual main event.

 

Jericho vs Hunter was the main event of WM18. Rock vs Hogan was the bigger match with more star power in it, and it also turned out to be the more heated and better match. That still doesn't magically make it the main event, because it wasn't.

 

Cena vs Orton vs Hunter at WM24 wasn't the main event. Edge vs Taker was. Even if you possibly want to argue that a match on that undercard was more important than Edge/Taker was, then that match is Floyd/Show. And then Shawn/Flair. Orton's match on that card was third from the top in terms of importance, at best, and in no way was the main event.

 

This is partly an issue with current-day WWE marketing style, because they often try to call three or four matches on the card "main events". But unless you want to actually buy into that and any match given the "one of the main events!" tag is a main event, I don't see why main event should be such a nebulous term.

[Slasher]

Just because a match is bigger than or has more heat than the match that goes on last doesn't make it the main event. The last match is the main event. It being the main event doesn't say anything to its quality.

Umm seriously?

 

Yes?

 

The main event is the main event. The last match on the card. This is pretty universal EXCEPT in cases like the old 'before intermission' Hogan main event, or a MITB cash in coming after the main event, or a 'double main event' card, or SNME cards, those kinds of examples where the match that is built and sold and named as the main event doesn't go on last. But a main event isn't suddenly not a main event because there are other matches on the card that have bigger stars or turned out better or stole the show from the actual main event.

 

Jericho vs Hunter was the main event of WM18. Rock vs Hogan was the bigger match with more star power in it, and it also turned out to be the more heated and better match. That still doesn't magically make it the main event, because it wasn't.

 

Cena vs Orton vs Hunter at WM24 wasn't the main event. Edge vs Taker was. Even if you possibly want to argue that a match on that undercard was more important than Edge/Taker was, then that match is Floyd/Show. And then Shawn/Flair. Orton's match on that card was third from the top in terms of importance, at best, and in no way was the main event.

 

This is partly an issue with current-day WWE marketing style, because they often try to call three or four matches on the card "main events". But unless you want to actually buy into that and any match given the "one of the main events!" tag is a main event, I don't see why main event should be such a nebulous term.

 

You are right normally but I am buying what the promotion is selling because its their product. If they want to call the curtain jerker the main event, that is one thing but a match second or third from top? Sure.

[Jimmy Redman]

In this particular case though (Orton/Cena/HHH), it wasn't a main event either in placement or importance. Edge/Taker went on last. Money/Show was bigger. Shawn/Flair was more important. Like I said, it may have been lateral to Edge/Taker in importance at absolute best, but they chose put the other match on last. If you're getting into the fourth from the top match as a "main event", you're rendering the term pretty worthless at that point.

 

To get back to the original point, I don't think even Orton would consider his WM24 match as main eventing Wrestlemania. It was a pretty well pushed match with the top Raw stars in it, it was for the Raw title, and hell he probably did get paid well for it, but all that isn't the same thing. And Orton actually HAS main evented Mania anyway, with Hunter at WM25, so I'm not sure why WM24 would even come into it when a legitimate example is right there.

[BrickHithouse]

I MET BOB BACKLUND TONIGHT!!!!!! TONIGHT WAS SO FUCKIN BITCHIN!

Details please

[Slasher]

In this particular case though (Orton/Cena/HHH), it wasn't a main event either in placement or importance. Edge/Taker went on last. Money/Show was bigger. Shawn/Flair was more important. Like I said, it may have been lateral to Edge/Taker in importance at absolute best, but they chose put the other match on last. If you're getting into the fourth from the top match as a "main event", you're rendering the term pretty worthless at that point.

 

To get back to the original point, I don't think even Orton would consider his WM24 match as main eventing Wrestlemania. It was a pretty well pushed match with the top Raw stars in it, it was for the Raw title, and hell he probably did get paid well for it, but all that isn't the same thing. And Orton actually HAS main evented Mania anyway, with Hunter at WM25, so I'm not sure why WM24 would even come into it when a legitimate example is right there.

Ok you talked me into seeing your point.

[Jimmy Redman]

In this particular case though (Orton/Cena/HHH), it wasn't a main event either in placement or importance. Edge/Taker went on last. Money/Show was bigger. Shawn/Flair was more important. Like I said, it may have been lateral to Edge/Taker in importance at absolute best, but they chose put the other match on last. If you're getting into the fourth from the top match as a "main event", you're rendering the term pretty worthless at that point.

 

To get back to the original point, I don't think even Orton would consider his WM24 match as main eventing Wrestlemania. It was a pretty well pushed match with the top Raw stars in it, it was for the Raw title, and hell he probably did get paid well for it, but all that isn't the same thing. And Orton actually HAS main evented Mania anyway, with Hunter at WM25, so I'm not sure why WM24 would even come into it when a legitimate example is right there.

Ok you talked me into seeing your point.

 

I wish there was a way on this board to like or rep your post, because this may be the first time anyone has ever admitted this in the history of the internet. My hat to you sir.

 

So, Survivor Series. What the shit was that show?

 

I'm surprised at the overwhelming praise for the opener, because for the guys involved and my expectations going in, I found it disappointing on the whole. Good start, and good finish, but it dragged to a halt in the middle when they inexplicably gave the babyfaces a 5 vs 2 advantage that they murdered like fools.

[Matt D]

Basically they panicked due to ratings and the fact they need strong numbers right now for the TV contract renewal/network launch and are putting together the only thing they think that will actually draw, right?

 

That's the narrative I'd pick up from all the notes around here lately at least.

[Jimmy Redman]

The thing is, they are completely delusional if they think Cena/Orton will draw. It was killed as a feud in 2009, and every time they have teased it since it has been met with deafening, embarrassing silence.

 

Even with the title unification attached, which is what I assume you mean, I don't see it drumming up much interest. You could find a more compelling title unification by putting either guy against almost any other star. They just have nothing together.

[goodhelmet]

Agreed! They were under the assumption that BRyan was a ratings killer (and he may be) but Randy Orton has also tanked on top.

[Kevin Ridge]

I fucking loved Cena/ Del Rio. And Peyton is owning Brady. Great night thus far.

Hehe.

[Timbo Slice]

Yeah, I found that poetic justice myself.

 

I said from the start that not blaming Orton, yet blaming Bryan for the ratings not being what they wanted was always hilarious to me. It's not like Orton was a draw himself.

[tim]

Agreed! They were under the assumption that BRyan was a ratings killer (and he may be) but Randy Orton has also tanked on top.

I know you're not arguing in favor of WWE's philosophy here but this post just made me really realize how tortured their logic is. Cena is out, so two guys who weren't in the main event over the preceding months get put on center stage. Ratings fall because of no Cena, more of the blame is placed on the untested guy rather than the tested-and-prove-not-draw guy. One half of the guys who didn't boost ratings, but still has untested potential, is moved out of the main event right as Cena is coming back so there is no way to see if Bryan on top has an actual negative effect on ratings (maybe even a positive effect! MAYBE ratings would have decreased MORE if Cena was gone and Bryan wasn't on top) or if it's completely neutral and the only meaningful variable is if Cena's around. It's like taking your medicine the day after you've gotten better naturally and trying to decide whether the medicine works or not.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I fucking loved Cena/ Del Rio. And Peyton is owning Brady. Great night thus far.

Hehe.

 

I know. I totally jinxed it.

[Slasher]

Look, I like Orton as a worker but not as a guy pushed in the position he is. This said, it is obvious they want the guy there. If positioning the guy they really trust as a draw (Cena) against Orton, who EWR updates gave the fitting gimmick of "the chosen one" btw, nothing you can do about it. They seem so fucking convinced they are the golden boys, so like the JCP fanboys who had to watch Hulk Hogan in the 80s, we either watch or not. Makes no difference to them.

[Dylan Waco]

The difference is Hogan was a huge draw. Orton is actually a proven anti-draw, who was bested by noted HoF level box office draw Mark Henry

[Kevin Ridge]

Thoughts about being there live. I found the crowd to be pretty well behaved early and doing their best to try enjoy the show. There was a brief Ziggler chant during the pre show match but overall fans were good. I went in with the bar set really low for this show so they didn't have to do too much for me to enjoy it in the end. I thought the opener was good but not seeing the praise by some that it was great. Ambrose early elimination was so obvious watching it. When Cesaro went to the big swings spots which also spelled the early end for him too. Crowd was deflated at seeing him go. It was quiet for a bit. I'm cool with giving Reigns the big push but it came at the expense of booking others on his side in match. I would have left Goldust as the last guy against Reigns and maybe give them a few additional minutes. Crowd were more into Goldust than Rey.

 

Langston/Axel was forgettable and I hit up the beer line for the Divas match. It was humorous to be in the concourse area and hearing them announce eliminations almost ever 30 seconds.

 

The crowd started to turn on show during Cena/Del Rio match. Normally I can't stand wrestling fans at live shows and during this match some dude in my section began to make himself heard very loudly which continued through rest of show. Some of the stuff he was saying was actually funny but he was really pissing off another guy sitting behind me. That guy spent the rest of the show trying to talk himself into fighting the loud mouth. That probably would have been my match of the night if it happened as was more into these guys guys going back and forth.

 

Man does it seem like Punk has really dropped off. He was over pretty huge at Night of the Champions last year in Boston and he felt like just another guy. I wonder how things will go for Bryan since I felt he was more over at previous Night of Champions show too but there was still Bryan chants going on later in show during WWE title match.

 

Main event was just boring as hell. One of those things with watching live from my seat you could see the cameramen running down the aisle back to stage area to get ready for Triple H's entrance at end. It's pretty comical to see it happen as they waited about 20 seconds before he came out. Crowd was running for the exits once match ended even with Cena coming out after. That stuff was just awful to watch with Triple continuing to stop Randy, then trying to stop Kane, Stephanie and Vince too. It was like poor comedy which ain't what they are going for when you are teasing a big Champion vs Champion match down the road. I don't know how much of this was shown on PPV but it really dragged on and on.

 

Event was not a visible sell out. I could see partial rows of seats behind the hard cam in the balcony that were empty. I sat like a lump in my seat for most of the show. It was just a dull show to watch. I just don't care about these guys and why they are feuding. Guess I can say that at least it wasn't four hours long like Mania. I think the only time I really cheer something was during Zeb's promo when he took shots at dumb people on twitters which will go over strong with me since I dislike social media. There was Henry doing the JYD headbutt and Thump which I liked. There wasn't much else though. A show that I will forget about.

[Jimmy Redman]

One thing I noticed more than once during the show was the times when they showed the floor section on the hard cam side, most of them were just sitting there visibly not giving a shit. And this was for things like Nattie going over to celebrate with them and the Orton/Show crowd brawling. Not the most exciting things in the world, I grant you, but still they were both designed to have people going nuts in the background, so the zero fucks being given was pretty hilarious.

[cm funk]

I don't think Orton is an anti-draw, if anything he's just neutral, status quo. They've pushed him as champ enough times that they should realize this. He works best as a guy who hovers around near the top of the card, but isn't the main focus. He's perma over, but the audience doesn't want to see him as the focus. He works best as that near the top established guy who puts people over and elevates them by working with him, that's the best role for him, and he doesn't seem to have any problem doing jobs or showing ass. And he's more over when he's in that role. He's been pushed in main event roles longer than Cena, not as constantly, but basically for over 9 years now in and out of the main event.

 

I don't know how much stock I put into them thinking Daniel Bryan is to blame for buyrates/ratings over the last few months, but it's crazy, because seeing them panic in the fall year after year is like groundhog day. Sept-Oct the ratings always drop because of MNF, teenagers/college kids in school....the same reasons every year, and they always panic. I think it's pretty telling that both the Punk and Bryan initial ME pushes were derailed by over focus on HHH and bad creative....and the blame gets put on the guys who are the most over with the crowds and not where it belongs.

 

Cena-Orton is just tired at this point. Been done too much already, and both guys are better when they work with fresh opponents.

[anarchistxx]

I said last month that they were seemingly heading towards Cena/Orton in a unification match. There was no other real reason for either guy to have the title. Presumably they are going to run it at Wrestlemania in the main event - about six years too late, but there you are. I was always amazed how much they blew their big two matches with the last true stars they created circa 2004/2005. Cena/Batista and Cena/Orton should have been huge Wrestlemania main events when they would have been hot and fresh, and instead both were thrown away on Summerslam and done to death with a million rematches.