soup23 Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Jimmy, do you have any examples of either sub 10 minute Punk matches or matches vs. a lesser worker that you would recommend? Would like to find some hidden gems on that front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 The Rock was so shitty that he had 3 out of his five matches on his return be *** or above based on your rankings? That is some feather in the cap of Punk and Cena then. Yeah, I suppose. Honestly, cracking the *** barrier isn't all that impressive when you only work a handful of high-profile matches with some of the best workers in the company. The Ultimate Warrior had a pretty similar batting average in his PPV matches. The fact that Rock ended up getting seriously injured in both Cena matches is a clear indication that he had no business in a wrestling ring. I also don't get how this logic works The Rock 2012-2013 = shitty Tom Zenk = shitty Rock makes Zenk look like Steamboat THEREFORE Steamboat = shitty???? What? No, that's not what I said at all. How on Earth did you get that? I was saying that post-comeback Rock was so bad that he made Zenk look like a superworker in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Jimmy, do you have any examples of either sub 10 minute Punk matches or matches vs. a lesser worker that you would recommend? Would like to find some hidden gems on that front. You didn't ask me, but the RAW CM Punk vs Mark Henry match from 4/2/12 is right around 10 minutes and its one of my favorite TV matches ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 I was going to ask how long that match lasted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Jimmy, do you have any examples of either sub 10 minute Punk matches or matches vs. a lesser worker that you would recommend? Would like to find some hidden gems on that front. You didn't ask me, but the RAW CM Punk vs Mark Henry match from 4/2/12 is right around 10 minutes and its one of my favorite TV matches ever. This is a great choice and one I blanked on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 I was going to mention the Henry match, but it went 13 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Actually, from bell to bell its less than 10:30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Not if you include the time during the commercial break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Oh yeah, you're right there. Didn't think about that. Also, the 2008 King of the Ring final against Regal was as good as you could hope to get from a 4 minute match. Punk's sloppy looking strikes even make sense in the context of the match since he's selling his back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2BTD Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 I love the short Punk matches from ECW against Steven Richards & Justin Credible, and think it's some of the best stuff he's done in the company actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Jimmy, do you have any examples of either sub 10 minute Punk matches or matches vs. a lesser worker that you would recommend? Would like to find some hidden gems on that front. Good question actually. It's not something that I've seen explored in any depth, even though I'd wager around most areas of the internet the idea of Punk carrying lesser workers and having good TV matches would be taken for granted. The Henry match people have already mentioned. On that note, they had a match in December 2007 on ECW, which is a fun and very short proto-version of the 2012 match. In a sea of mediocre Punk vs Kane matches from the ECW era there is the one really good Punk vs Kane match: 3/6/08 on ECW. Not sure how long it goes off hand, but that falls into the 'lesser worker' category anyway. I think it's possible that Punk vs Regal in Chicago (Raw 19/1/09) was under 10 minutes, or at least not very much over it, and in any case is a good example of a more sprinty match. In a similar way to Punk/Henry, I really liked Punk vs Big Show from Raw last year, 16/7/12. I think it was the week before he turned heel and it's another really good 'Punk bumps his ass off for a monster' match. Could also be under 10 minutes. Rey at Mania 26 is a super fun sprint. It's not a great match per se, I mean I doubt I'd put it in the Top 100 WWE matches from the year, but Punk had a fun TV match with Fandango on Smackdown a couple months back (28/7/13) that I thought was Fandango's best career match up to that point, and probably still is. That is a decent shot at the hidden gem type match we're looking for. Depending on how you view Alberto as a worker, Punk vs Alberto from Survivor Series 2011 may count as far as getting something special out of a lesser worker, although personally I think Alberto is more than capable of having great 'big' matches with the right opponent and has done so with Cena, Show, Dolph, and Rey over the years. It's funny, now that I've been put on the spot I can't think of as many examples as I expected to. Punk is definitely not a guy who has a lot of easily identified carryjobs or TV sprints to point to. I'm sure more exist than I can think of right now, but they're not particularly memorable or easily found. His strengths are in the big picture stuff: main events, long TV matches, heavy storyline-based feuds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Masahiro Chono Hiroyoshi Tenzan I wouldn't say either of these 2 were that good. The only memorable Tenzan match I can recall is that one with Kawada years ago and I'm not even sure that holds up that well upon a re-watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Masahiro Chono Hiroyoshi Tenzan I wouldn't say either of these 2 were that good. The only memorable Tenzan match I can recall is that one with Kawada years ago and I'm not even sure that holds up that well upon a re-watch. Tenzan has been in some great matches over the years. Akiyama/Tenzan in the G-1 Final from '03 is great for starters, and looking further back: 03/07/95 - Masa Chono & Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs Hiroshi Hase & Kensuke Sasaki 06/12/95 - Shinya Hashimoto & Junji Hirata vs Masa Chono & Hiroyoshi Tenzan 09/23/96 - Masa Chono & Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs Kazuo Yamazaki & Takashi Iizuka However, I do feel that be benefited a lot from being carried. I am on the fence as to whether he is good or just simply average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Looking at some of the guys he's paired with in and the scenario he's in in those matches, I'd say he benefited a lot from both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 How about Jim Cornette? Not a wrestler, but his mic work is not holding up as anything particularly remarkable. I don't know if he'd end up in my top 3 or 5 promos in SMW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 How about Jim Cornette? Not a wrestler, but his mic work is not holding up as anything particularly remarkable. I don't know if he'd end up in my top 3 or 5 promos in SMW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Hmmm ... how about Dick Slater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 How about Jim Cornette? Not a wrestler, but his mic work is not holding up as anything particularly remarkable. I don't know if he'd end up in my top 3 or 5 promos in SMW. Who do you feel was a better promo than James E. in Smoky Mountain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostka Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 -Waits for goodhelmet to drop the strap and make the comeback on Loss' meanie face Lawler lies- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 "Lies" that no one has even made an attempt to counter, despite lots of big Lawler fans popping in the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Also, in Memphis, the chain in the pants isn't the same as a roll of quarters or brass knux or a slapjack. The point is to punish, not knock out. The chain is a momentum turner, not a game ender. We've seen a chain used as a KO finish in Memphis more times than I could count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 How about Jim Cornette? Not a wrestler, but his mic work is not holding up as anything particularly remarkable. I don't know if he'd end up in my top 3 or 5 promos in SMW. Who do you feel was a better promo than James E. in Smoky Mountain? Without pulling up the roster and relying solely on a few names I've watched recently -- Fuller, Wright, Sytch, Pritchard and Sullivan. Don't get me wrong, when Cornette chose to focus on a particular match and the surrounding issue he could be really entertaining and effective. But way too often it seems like he's more interested in hearing his own voice and trying out material for a radio or stand up show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Also, in Memphis, the chain in the pants isn't the same as a roll of quarters or brass knux or a slapjack. The point is to punish, not knock out. The chain is a momentum turner, not a game ender. We've seen a chain used as a KO finish in Memphis more times than I could count. Was it the thin chain with fine links or thicker bicycle chain variety? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 -Waits for goodhelmet to drop the strap and make the comeback on Loss' meanie face Lawler lies- Still working pn it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babylonianfrost Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 How about Jim Cornette? Not a wrestler, but his mic work is not holding up as anything particularly remarkable. I don't know if he'd end up in my top 3 or 5 promos in SMW. Who do you feel was a better promo than James E. in Smoky Mountain? Without pulling up the roster and relying solely on a few names I've watched recently -- Fuller, Wright, Sytch, Pritchard and Sullivan. Don't get me wrong, when Cornette chose to focus on a particular match and the surrounding issue he could be really entertaining and effective. But way too often it seems like he's more interested in hearing his own voice and trying out material for a radio or stand up show. Bob Armstrong was better. The one consistent quality that I've noticed about Armstrong from Georgia through Continental and into SMW is that he is the go-to man for getting an angle across, even ones that he isn't involved in in some cases. I'd actually put Armstrong in the top five promo guys that I've ever seen, but I grant that that's a personal opinion. Heel Ron Wright was a great deal of fun; I'm not sure that I'd call him better than Cornette, but I can certainly see the argument. Fuller...okay. I'd actually put Dutch Mantell over Sytch, Wright, Pritchard and Sullivan, just for the promo prior to the nine-man/three-way tag between the Stud Stable, the Heavenly Bodies and the R&R Express/Anderson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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