"_______ should have been a top guy"

[tholzerman]

Ron Simmons during the initial Nation of Domination run.

I agree in a bizarro universe where WWE and wrestling fans weren't racist as all get out.

[Memphis Mark]

I think Brad Armstrong could have been bigger than he ever got.

I agree . Brad was a great wrestler, had a great look and could connect with the fans. Great talent who could have drawn big money given the chance.

[JerryvonKramer]

See, Brad's another one who I think was exactly where he should have been in the lower midcard.

[Smack2k]

Samoa Joe...

 

TNA fucked that up SOOO bad in 2007 it was sad,....then they had a chance to redeem it in 2008 when he beats MMA Angle in the cage...then loses to Sting like right afterward at Bound For Glory during the "Sting wins the title at BFG every year" run, then disappears into virutal obscurity on the shows to the point that he doesnt really even care to stay in any great shape (he never was a great body, but fuck he could go for an hour + and have great matches)...and have a tattoo and threatening peopel with a knife? FUck, I would have stopped caring to!

 

I am sure WWE would have pushed him furhter, they LOVE Samoans, but not as a top guy either...

 

But he would be my pick hands down....I remember in 2006 after the Angle series thinking "Shit, TNA has a huge main event draw right in their hands, Jarrett isnt ruling the top anymore, this is a no-brainer...then......well.....yeah....

[SomethingSavage]

Booker T.

Ignoring the WCW run for a moment, Book had a window of opportunity to REALLY breakthrough as the babyface ace of WWE in 2002. I still wish he would have swept through the nWo like a scalpel that summer and went on to bigger & better things by that fall. But the return of Shawn, the teaming with Goldust, and other factors clearly pushed him down the pecking order in terms of priorities. It's really unfortunate.

Truth be told, he could have still been salvaged as late as '03 with the WrestleMania 19 match. But... Well, yeah.

 

Anyone else think Booker could have gotten over strong as the top babyface for the company in 2002? Or was the card simply too stacked with stars at the time? They had SO MUCH name value on the roster, but I think that would have been the prime opportunity to launch Book to the top. Say what you will, but the guy was getting mainstream buzz with the Spin-A-Roonie, the hand gesture, and just everything. He was easily one of the most entertaining aspects of RAW for awhile there.

And Goldust could have gone along for the ride. No need to bust up their outrageously awesome chemistry for Book to get his singles push. Hogan had his running buddies in the 80's. Rock & Mick were oddball friends. Not EVERY babyface has to be a rebel or a total solo act. Goldie could've done just fine as Booker's occasional tag team partner and general sidekick.

[jdw]

I could see Dustin anchoring a territory, say if Florida in 1992 was like Florida in the 70s when Dusty got over as the top face. He'd have time to develop, work on his mic work and constantly be in revolving storylines and angles at a far quicker pace than WCW.

 

The Ace of a successful national promotion as a face? I don't see it. Strikes me more as a Tito / Barry / Steamboat top potential as a face rather than Hogan / Austin / Rock. He didn't really get a persona that he was as comfortable and natural in as they were until he went Dust. Before that, his persona was a good generic babyface like Steamer, Tito and Barry. All of those guys had Face Ace of a Territory potential, but weren't that on a national level.

 

As Goldust... I don't think the gimmick would have sustained a long run on top as a heel. Could I see him winning the WWF Title five times and having say 400-500+ days as champ over the course of 3-4 years? Not in a "one belt" WWF. And I liked Goldust a good deal.

[jdw]

I agree with Loss on Hall as someone who could/should. Less in WCW, since he was on a one way ticket to being a trainwreck there. But he was functional for his entire first run in the WWF.

 

The sad thing is that his moment for it was probably 1994, but (i) Bret got pushed back to the title, (ii) Razor was used to help get over The Next Big Thing in Nash. They probably would have been better off trying to figure out a long term three way between Bret, Shawn and Hall, trying to get a feel for how the fans viewed them similar to:

 

Hart Foundation > Rockers > Demolition

 

Where when the Harts went against the Rockers in 1990, the Harts were the ones that fans rooted for. In turn, the Rockers still got cheers against Demo. You don't have to turn the Rockets total heels... but you do need to structure things to take advantage of which way things before.

 

Who knows if the fans would have cheered for Razor against Bret... if Shawn would have stayed the Most Heelish in the fans minds... or if Bret would have gotten the most vocal support. But there are options to work with. Hall was solid enough in the ring, excellent on the mic, could work angles, etc. They would have been better off committing a year to the three of them being peers/rivals than waste it on Nash as champ.

[jdw]

Ken Patera was a Top Guy... but when you look at him in 1980, he could have been The Top Guy someplace. The tough thing is that he had just turned 37 as 1980 was coming to a close. I was thinking of him as an alternative to giving the belt back to Bock when Verne retired, but:

 

#1 - He wasn't that young

 

12/06/34 Bock
11/06/43 Patera

 

He's 9 years younger than Bock, but still not that young.

 

#2 - Verne never would do that

 

I mean... of course he would never do that. And it's not like the AWA didn't do good business with Nick... and Verne probably didn't think Power Heel As Champ would be something good for his territory. Which may be true, though Patera was much more than a power heel.

 

But... Ken was really damn good.

[The Chief]

I'm not seeing Booker T. I just don't think his ringwork was ever up to that level. I'm aware there were plenty of guys who were given the chance that probably had less ability than Booker. I'm not really sure how to word it, but I always felt that you knew exactly what you were going to get with Booker T, there was a certain ceiling to his work.

 

And I'm seeing a lot of guys mentioned here who were simply underrated. Wasn't the point of the thread guys who could have been THE guy?

[Loss]

I always felt like somewhere buried in Booker T was this amazing promo guy just dying to get out, but he never did. I always wanted him to get really serious and talk tough, but he never really did. I wonder if the right booker could have pissed him off enough to get something fired up out of him.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Booker's short run on top as King Bookah was so great.

[funkdoc]

RVD had that 02-03 window with legit ace potential, but between the weed and his tendency to hurt guys and being an even worse promo than sting...i'm going to say "no" on that one. no way he would have held up long-term even if he did get the belt when he was hot.

 

i actually don't think ahmed johnson ranks all that far behind RVD as far as this goes. a lot of the same weaknesses to an even more extreme degree, but he had the same kind of appeal goldberg did: an aura of intensity in a period where that was lacking. the guy was absolutely over enough to get the belt in mid-96, but in retrospect it was for the better that they didn't hotshot it onto him. i don't think guys like this are what this thread was meant for.

 

don't think anyone mentioned kerry von erich here, which is kinda surprising. allegedly he was vince's plan B for hulkamania...again though, i don't think that one works out long-term. if anything, i think an in-shape junkyard dog is a more interesting "what if" in that role, though i doubt a national promotion was ready for a black ace then. heck, advertisers were leery of michael jordan at first!

 

honestly, out of anybody who could have conceivably gotten hogan's spot, the only one i could see working and not flaming out would have been slaughter. pretty much any other top babyface was either deep into drugs (kerry, JYD, snuka) or too bland of a persona to be a national ace (backlund, tito). i'm not sure if slaughter had some bigger issue with the company that would have driven him out anyway - otherwise, i think he would be an interesting answer for this.

[JaymeFuture]

Recorded the podcast last night, ended up being a lot of fun - will post it as soon as it's up, but we were able to cover almost everybody's suggestions. Really interesting topic. The Slaughter discussion is really interesting because there is a window there where it could have been possible.

[(BP)]

This reminded me of the "What if Vince ran with Slaughter instead of Hogan" thread from a couple years ago that was interesting. Ugh, I'm having trouble posting links with my phone.

[Matt D]

This is my answer and I'm sticking with it: John Nord.

 

He was a top 3 bumper in WWF in 1991. He had maybe the best offense in WWF in 1991. He was huge. He was very good at giving his opponent a lot to make them good. He was ten times the Brody that Brody ever was that year. And if he had been in that spot 5 years before (and had been that good before), he could have main evented a PPV with Hogan.

 

Maybe not the Ace but the top heel? Absolutely.

[JerryvonKramer]

Matt, with respect, I find that idea completely laughable. The Bezerker is your top pick? Really?

[Matt D]

Yes. I'm sticking to everything I just said there. And you know I've watched the matches in the last few years, while I know you haven't and you're going off of your nostalgic memories of watching wrestling, with your Dibiase wrestling buddy under your arm, while eating Wheataflakes, or whatever British cereal you had in 1991.

 

You found the Bossman > Dibiase in the WWF idea laughable too and then we made a note and people watched matches and I think there was a general feeling that Bossman had a better output. It's okay for you to disagree, but tread lightly in finding my odd-sounding ideas innately laughable.

[JerryvonKramer]

Ha ha. It doesn't really change much though, it's a ridiculous suggestion. The most Bezerker might have done is headline an MSG house show with Hogan or something like that, but top heel for the promotion? Yeah, let's go with Doink as company ace while we're at it.

[Matt D]

We need to import Gregg and Jae from DVDVR to team up and write a 30 page essay on how that could have worked.

 

That said, Matt Borne is not a bad choice in general, Doink aside. You'll note I said Nord and not necessarily the Berzerker. I'm sticking with Nord, and unless you want to do the legwork, then you'll just have to begrudgingly admit that based on my general track record, I MAY have something there and you just can't be sure, even if perhaps you find the notion doubtful. It's a gracious response and I will, in return, graciously accept it.

[JerryvonKramer]

Christ, do it. I'd love to see you fantasy book Doink vs. Bezerker to headline Wrestlemania 9.

 

I think, personally, that Matt has confused "good worker" with "potential to be The Man" here and lost all perspective.

[Matt D]

He's got everything Brody has and he doesn't suck. He has size, he has look. You package him right. You pair him with the right mouthpiece, and it works out. He debuted in late January, 91. That's only a few months off Taker. Give him Heenan with the storyline that this is Heenan's last change to go after Hogan before he hangs it up and he's brought out someone so dangerous that he can barely control him, and there's no reason why he couldn't be in Taker's spot for Survivor Series 91. Go fuil on Brody with a guy like Heenan as a mouthpiece. It could have worked. Hell, I bet Hogan would have LOVED working with him since he loved working with relatively safe guys who made him look great.

[JerryvonKramer]

The problem is, I don't really see Brody headlining in the WWF early 90s environment either ... just not Vince enough. It was always going to be Sid or Luger getting the pushes. Then the change in direction with Bret and Shawn.

[shoe]

Yes. I'm sticking to everything I just said there. And you know I've watched the matches in the last few years, while I know you haven't and you're going off of your nostalgic memories of watching wrestling, with your Dibiase wrestling buddy under your arm, while eating Wheataflakes, or whatever British cereal you had in 1991.

 

You found the Bossman > Dibiase in the WWF idea laughable too and then we made a note and people watched matches and I think there was a general feeling that Bossman had a better output. It's okay for you to disagree, but tread lightly in finding my odd-sounding ideas innately laughable.

 

I will say their is no way Bezerker could be the top guy or heel. With that said on a MSG card on the network he does totally outshine Bret Hart in their match.

[shoe]

Recorded the podcast last night, ended up being a lot of fun - will post it as soon as it's up, but we were able to cover almost everybody's suggestions. Really interesting topic. The Slaughter discussion is really interesting because there is a window there where it could have been possible.

Cool I'll be listening interested on hearing you alls take on Slaughter.

[Matt D]

The problem is, I don't really see Brody headlining in the WWF early 90s environment either ... just not Vince enough. It was always going to be Sid or Luger getting the pushes. Then the change in direction with Bret and Shawn.

 

Yeah, but Vince could see it as doing Brody better than Brody. The Demolition of Brodies. You get me a time machine and a nice suit and we can sell him on this. Again, I'm shooting for Survivor Series 1991/This Tuesday in Texas as my payoff here. You can even say that the real #1 heel there was Flair. I'll give you that, especially for the second match. He can't be Flair, but he could have been in that Taker spot, maybe.