Ric Flair

[C.S.]

Brando is just about the worst example you might have used. No one is bringing up The Island of Dr. Moreau or The Score as evidence of him not being the GOAT. Those who push for Brando as GOAT don't tend to do it on overall body of work, they argue along the lines of raw natural talent.

 

At the risk of "Ringwalding" this thread, I think Brando is an absolutely perfect example.

 

Both Brando and Flair were placed on a pedestal as the "GOAT" throughout their careers. Even though Brando did a lot of bad movies and bad work, he's worshiped for his iconic performances in Godfather, etc. In Flair's case, the decline happened at the end instead of between good projects like it did for Brando, but the end result is the same: People talk about Brando with a reverence that most other actors don't receive, for whatever reason, and the same is true for Flair.

 

 

No one is bringing up The Island of Dr. Moreau or The Score as evidence of him not being the GOAT.

 

What's wrong with The Score? It's not The Godfather, but it's fun movie with fine performances. Brando doesn't "wow" in it, but he doesn't embarass himself either - and it's really De Niro's (and Norton's) movie anyway. Speaking of which...

 

I understand both points of view on this by the way. Position A is something like:

 

- Robert De Niro cemented his reputation as an all-timer back in 1990 and no matter what else he does, his case is already made, he can only add to it.

 

Position B is:

 

- Robert De Niro might have made many fine performances in the 70s and 80s but since about 1995, he's coasted and made an awful lot of shit, and we're now at the point where he has almost 20 years of being on uninspired autopilot. This has to be a knock on his GOAT case.

 

Position A makes the argument "from peak performance".

 

Position B makes the argument "from overall body of work".

 

What I don't understand is Matt D -- a guy who has consistently argued from neither of those positions but from something like "overall ability" (which would be the line Brando advocates would tow) -- now switching to insist on overall body of work. Makes no sense.

Brando has a much smaller body of work than De Niro. The great Brando movies and performances are truly great, but the rest of the crap is scattered throughout his career and make up only a few movies/roles overall. De Niro has two long decades of red hot garbage under his belt, with very few classics (Silver Linings Playbook and Limitless were both very good though). Flair's decline, like Brando's bad movies, is but a mere blip compared to the rest of his career and all the classics he had throughout. Flair's downswing lasted a good few years, but that's still pretty short, relatively speaking. But Flair's best, like Brando's, is really incredible - on a level that most others can only dream of.

[ohtani's jacket]

These acting comparisons are pointless unless you can point to bad movies that Brando and De Niro wrote, produced, directed and starred in. Otherwise the closest analogy would be periods where Flair was booked poorly.

[JerryvonKramer]

The Flair - Brando comparison is crap and barely dignifies a response. Flair was prolific and his GOAT case is based on lots and lots and lots of great performances over a sustained period. So basically the opposite of Brando's few iconic performances.

 

I'm pretty annoyed that all of this great stuff that Loss is posting about Flair's career, and this is still the sort of shit that this thread is producing.

[Loss]

I'm not giving up, Parv.

 

What I find interesting that didn't really strike me until posting this stuff is that Ric Flair had a GOAT case as early as 1985. So the Steamboat and Funk feuds which came later certainly strengthen his case, but I'm realizing going through this stuff that if Flair fell off the face of the earth at the end of 1985, he'd still be a solid top five contender based on output alone. I'm wondering if others see that, but for me it really puts his case in perspective.

[KrisZ]

1985 he has a definite case but he needed 1989 to become a stone cold lock for Top 3 at worst

[ohtani's jacket]

The Flair - Brando comparison is crap and barely dignifies a response. Flair was prolific and his GOAT case is based on lots and lots and lots of great performances over a sustained period. So basically the opposite of Brando's few iconic performances.

 

I'm pretty annoyed that all of this great stuff that Loss is posting about Flair's career, and this is still the sort of shit that this thread is producing.

 

Again pointless... Actors don't star in movies with the same frequency that wrestlers work matches, and besides Brando's acting career also encompasses his stage work. Flair produced his work w/ some direction from the booker or road agent. Brando did not produce his material.

[JerryvonKramer]

It's bad enough without this pedantic quibbling OJ. Everyone here is intelligent enough to know the difference between wrestling and movies. Analogies don't have to be perfect to work. Although I'd be generally happy if talk of Brando was dropped in general here.

[Superstar Sleeze]

I was thinking more in terms of his character than anything else. Care to go into specifics OJ, because this is a very interesting topic for me.

 

I have talked in the past about "Minnesota Flair" and "Carolinas Flair".

 

Starrcade 83 hushed-voiced family-man serious Flair is the former. "Slick Rick" in the shades is the latter.

 

I had wondered when Flair "became" the Flair we all know and love.

 

Now when I saw Flair in St. Louis from 1978, I was struck by just how much he was *that* Flair. He had the strut. He had the talk. He had a lot of the mannerisms down. It seemed to me that Flair had already become "Slick Rick" at that point.

 

When he becomes NWA Champ in 81, I'm not sure how he played it. But by the Race feud in 83 he's "Minnesota Flair".

 

It's not even as easy as saying that one was face and the other was heel because even in 1984 in the feud with Dusty, Flair was more the "Minnesota Flair" type character. He morphs back into Slick Rick some time after that.

 

I'd love to see what you think the trajectory is OJ.

I think you are overcomplicating this, brutha. "Minnesota" Flair is just babyface Flair. "Carolina" Flair is his heel version. 1983 he is clearly the babyface in Mid-Atlantic. 1984 is a year of transition (youtube "1984 year of transition") and when begins to turn heel because Dusty is in the territory. He does not go full bore until 1985 with the Horsemen. Feel free to prove me wrong because I have not watched all the footage, but it seems pretty clear that is all this is. 1993 Flair against Vader is "Minnesota" Flair. By 1996, Flair was doing the crazy old man as a babyface because people just loved it.

 

I have used Hisa's lists to randomly pop names into youtube to see what I can get for Flair. Charles, this is God's work. Once, I finish watch all this 00s Japan stuff. I am just going to back to mama's home cooking and watching nothing, but 80s Flair in all his glory.

[ohtani's jacket]

It's bad enough without this pedantic quibbling OJ. Everyone here is intelligent enough to know the difference between wrestling and movies. Analogies don't have to be perfect to work. Although I'd be generally happy if talk of Brando was dropped in general here.

 

I'd be generally happy if the discussion of Flair was dropped the way this thread is going.

[C.S.]

The Flair - Brando comparison is crap and barely dignifies a response. Flair was prolific and his GOAT case is based on lots and lots and lots of great performances over a sustained period. So basically the opposite of Brando's few iconic performances.

 

I'm pretty annoyed that all of this great stuff that Loss is posting about Flair's career, and this is still the sort of shit that this thread is producing.

 

No need to be so rude. Just because you don't like the comparison doesn't negate the fact that it's a perfectly valid one. Of course there are inherent differences between acting and wrestling, but Brando's name was brought up elsewhere in this thread and there are definitely similarities worth discussing. One of the major points of argument is whether Flair's later work should be held against him. Looking to a similar situation in another industry is perfectly reasonable.

 

As for your argument that Flair has lots and lots of matches compared to the amount of movies Brando has made, well, so does Koko B. Ware. What's your point?

 

I don't think this particular tangent is taking anything away from the great stuff Loss is posting. This isn't the "let's respond to Loss" thread - it's the Ric Flair thread, and that's going to encompass multiple discussions that don't include only you or Loss. I mean no disrespect whatsoever toward Loss, BTW...I'm just pointing out what should be obvious in any kind of message board setting.

 

This thread is eight pages already. I think you can live with a very small handful of posts, JVK, that don't adhere to your exact wishes.

[Timbo Slice]

I think talking about how a pro wrestler overstayed his welcome being a detriment to his case when there's plenty of evidence that Flair was one of hundreds who did so, just on a much larger scale, is pretty hilarious. Especially considering what happened tonight at Yankee Stadium.

[C.S.]

I think talking about how a pro wrestler overstayed his welcome being a detriment to his case when there's plenty of evidence that Flair was one of hundreds who did so, just on a much larger scale, is pretty hilarious. Especially considering what happened tonight at Yankee Stadium.

 

Something to consider: If Flair was still booked as dominantly in the late '90s WCW and early '00s WWE instead of as an aging midcarder, would he still be seen as someone in decline who overstayed his welcome? The pendulum might have swung the other way, with people being resentful that he was still being pushed so hard at his age. If anything, I think bad booking and being misused - as odd as this sounds - endeared Flair to fans more. We kinda saw the same thing with Bryan and Punk, in a way. Is there any scenario where Flair comes out smelling like roses if he doesn't retire in the late-90s (or whatever you think his dropping off point was) like maybe he should have?

[JerryvonKramer]

 

The Flair - Brando comparison is crap and barely dignifies a response. Flair was prolific and his GOAT case is based on lots and lots and lots of great performances over a sustained period. So basically the opposite of Brando's few iconic performances.

 

I'm pretty annoyed that all of this great stuff that Loss is posting about Flair's career, and this is still the sort of shit that this thread is producing.

No need to be so rude. Just because you don't like the comparison doesn't negate the fact that it's a perfectly valid one. Of course there are inherent differences between acting and wrestling, but Brando's name was brought up elsewhere in this thread and there are definitely similarities worth discussing. One of the major points of argument is whether Flair's later work should be held against him. Looking to a similar situation in another industry is perfectly reasonable.

 

As for your argument that Flair has lots and lots of matches compared to the amount of movies Brando has made, well, so does Koko B. Ware. What's your point?

 

The point is that Brando's GOAT case is made on a handful of iconic performances and Flair's is based on consistent great performances "week in, week out". It isn't a valid comparison because it's off.

 

If you MUST make the analogy between Flair and an actor, at least pick one who is comparable. Brando isn't the right one. You need an actor who was having Oscar nominations year on year and who had a lot of great performances in a lot of films. Someone like Dustin Hoffman from The Graduate in 1967 to Rain Man in 1988 and everything he did in between.

 

A Flair - Dustin Hoffman comparison works better for your purposes all round, even down to the late career.

 

The Brando one doesn't work period. If you MUST make the analogy between Brando and a wrestler, you need a wrestler who was seen as being incredibly naturally talented who has 3-4 matches considered the among the best of all-time, but who for the rest of the time was in a lot of mediocre or nothing matches. Ricky Steamboat? I dunno. I like the Steamboat comparison because, like Brando, a lot of people casually refer to Steamboat as the GOAT (or at least they used to) and people bee-line to the iconic performances. Beach Blast 92 with Rude is your Last Tango, the Flair match at Spring Stampede 94 Apocalypse Now. Let's stop this idiocy now.

 

And, sorry, didn't mean to come across as being rude. I'm just pissed off that so much of this thread has been about total crap. It's not fair to Flair.

[Jmare007]

Reign number three is the whopper for me. It was the longest run he had as NWA champ (2+ years) and while it's not something said very often about him, I thought for years that Ric Flair's 1985 was the best year a wrestler had ever had. I have seen far more stuff since and I'm not sure I still feel that way, but it is absolutely a year still in the conversation. This is where I truly think Flair becomes a GOAT contender - maybe not the runaway number one he'd eventually be considered by many, but by now, he is firmly in the conversation. I'll put my favorite matches in blue again.

 

16 days and no title (05/07/84 - 05/23/84)

Flair does a few clean jobs in the window between title reigns.

Ric Flair vs Michael Hayes (05/07/84, WCCW)

Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich (05/11/84, WCCW)

Ric Flair vs Harley Race (05/22/84, AJPW)

 

World title reign #3 (05/24/84 - 07/26/86)

Winning and losing the title

Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich (05/24/84, AJPW)

Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes (07/26/86, JCP, Cage Match)

 

All Japan

Ric Flair vs Genichiro Tenryu (09/12/84)

Ric Flair vs Riki Choshu (04/23/85)

Ric Flair vs Jumbo Tsuruta (04/24/85)

Ric Flair vs Jumbo Tsuruta (10/19/85)

Ric Flair vs Rick Martel (10/21/85)

Ric Flair & Rick Martel vs Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu (10/22/85)

 

AWA

Ric Flair vs Magnum TA (09/28/85)

Ric Flair vs Nick Bockwinkel (01/16/86)

 

Central States

Ric Flair vs Harley Race (07/19/84)

 

Florida

Ric Flair vs Scott McGhee (10/28/84)

Ric Flair vs Wahoo McDaniel (09/02/85) - Battle of the Belts I

Ric Flair vs Barry Windham (02/14/86) - Battle of the Belts II

 

Georgia

Ric Flair vs Ron Garvin (06/16/84)

 

Hawaii

Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich (02/13/85) - 60 minute draw

 

Memphis

Ric Flair vs Koko Ware (11/18/85)

 

Mid Atlantic

Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (05/29/84) - Big Meadowlands show

Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes (11/22/84) - Starrcade

Ric Flair vs Magnum TA (06/15/85) - 10-minute challenge from TBS

Ric Flair vs Nikita Koloff (07/06/85) - Great American Bash

Ric Flair vs Nikita Koloff (08/11/85) - Omni

Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes (11/28/85) - Starrcade

Ric Flair, Arn & Ole Anderson vs Magnum TA, Dusty Rhodes & Manny Fernandez (12/15/85) - TV

Ric Flair vs Ron Garvin (12/28/85) - TBS TV

Ric Flair & Tully Blanchard vs Dusty Rhodes & Magnum TA (12/28/85) - Handheld

Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes (01/04/86) - Handheld

Ric Flair vs Ron Garvin (02/02/86) - Superstars on the Superstation

Ric Flair & Arn Anderson vs Ron Garvin & Dusty Rhodes (02/22/86) - TV

Ric Flair vs Magnum TA (02/23/86) - TV, World Pro

Ric Flair vs Ron Garvin (03/09/86) - Handheld, Matinee

Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes (03/09/86) - Handheld, Evening

Ric Flair vs Ron Garvin (03/30/86) - Handheld, Cage Match

Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes (04/04/86) - Handheld

Ric Flair & Tully Blanchard vs Dusty Rhodes & Wahoo McDaniel (April 1986) - Handheld, Bullrope Match

Ric Flair vs Ricky Morton (04/12/86) - TBS TV

Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes (04/19/86) - Crockett Cup

Ric Flair vs Ricky Morton (05/10/86) - TV, First 15 minutes made air

Ric Flair vs Ron Garvin (05/24/86)

Ric Flair vs Robert Gibson (05/25/86) - TV, World Pro I believe

Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes (06/07/86) - TV

Ric Flair vs Ricky Morton (June 1986) - Handheld, 35 minutes of 60 minute draw

Ric Flair vs Road Warrior Hawk (07/01/86) - Bash

Ric Flair vs Ricky Morton (07/05/86) - Bash, Cage match from Horsemen DVD

Ric Flair vs Ricky Morton (07/11/86) - Bash, Cage match from World Pro TV

 

Mid South

Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich (08/24/84)

Ric Flair vs Magnum TA (12/02/84) - Matinee

Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich (12/02/84) - Evening

Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich (04/27/85)

Ric Flair vs Terry Taylor (04/28/85)

Ric Flair vs Terry Taylor (05/03/85) - Houston

Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich (05/04/85)

Ric Flair vs Terry Taylor (06/01/85) - Superdome

Ric Flair vs Butch Reed (06/24/85) - Superdome

Ric Flair vs Wahoo McDaniel (07/26/85) - Houston

Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes (07/27/85)

Ric Flair vs Butch Reed (08/10/85) - 60-minute draw

Ric Flair vs Butch Reed (10/11/85)

Ric Flair vs Butch Reed (11/06/85 taped) - TV

Ric Flair vs Ted DiBiase (11/06/85 taped) - TV

Ric Flair vs Jake Roberts (11/24/85)

Ric Flair & Dick Slater vs Butch Reed & Jake Roberts (12/18/85) - TV

 

Puerto Rico

Ric Flair vs Hercules Ayala (09/21/85)

 

Portland

Ric Flair vs Billy Jack Haynes (10/20/84)

Ric Flair vs Billy Jack Haynes (05/21/85)

Ric Flair vs Magnum TA (09/24/85)

 

PWUSA

Ric Flair vs Harley Race (02/24/85) - Meadowlands show

 

St. Louis

Ric Flair vs Bruiser Brody (11/16/84)

Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich (01/25/85)

Ric Flair vs Kevin Von Erich (05/12/85)

 

World Class

Ric Flair vs Chris Adams (11/09/84)

Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich (12/25/84)

Ric Flair vs Terry Gordy (01/11/85)

Ric Flair vs Kevin Von Erich (05/05/85) - Parade of Champions

 

Great list. Would also add the Samu match from PPPW (date is 6/26/86). One of those matches were Flair just decides to put on a show in front of a half empty building so he can elevate the local star. Not a great match - bs ending - but an entertaining one that shows that Naitch didn't seem to take days off.

[BigBadMick]

 

 

The Flair - Brando comparison is crap and barely dignifies a response. Flair was prolific and his GOAT case is based on lots and lots and lots of great performances over a sustained period. So basically the opposite of Brando's few iconic performances.

 

I'm pretty annoyed that all of this great stuff that Loss is posting about Flair's career, and this is still the sort of shit that this thread is producing.

No need to be so rude. Just because you don't like the comparison doesn't negate the fact that it's a perfectly valid one. Of course there are inherent differences between acting and wrestling, but Brando's name was brought up elsewhere in this thread and there are definitely similarities worth discussing. One of the major points of argument is whether Flair's later work should be held against him. Looking to a similar situation in another industry is perfectly reasonable.

 

As for your argument that Flair has lots and lots of matches compared to the amount of movies Brando has made, well, so does Koko B. Ware. What's your point?

 

The point is that Brando's GOAT case is made on a handful of iconic performances and Flair's is based on consistent great performances "week in, week out". It isn't a valid comparison because it's off.

 

If you MUST make the analogy between Flair and an actor, at least pick one who is comparable. Brando isn't the right one. You need an actor who was having Oscar nominations year on year and who had a lot of great performances in a lot of films. Someone like Dustin Hoffman from The Graduate in 1967 to Rain Man in 1988 and everything he did in between.

 

A Flair - Dustin Hoffman comparison works better for your purposes all round, even down to the late career.

 

The Brando one doesn't work period. If you MUST make the analogy between Brando and a wrestler, you need a wrestler who was seen as being incredibly naturally talented who has 3-4 matches considered the among the best of all-time, but who for the rest of the time was in a lot of mediocre or nothing matches. Ricky Steamboat? I dunno. I like the Steamboat comparison because, like Brando, a lot of people casually refer to Steamboat as the GOAT (or at least they used to) and people bee-line to the iconic performances. Beach Blast 92 with Rude is your Last Tango, the Flair match at Spring Stampede 94 Apocalypse Now. Let's stop this idiocy now.

 

And, sorry, didn't mean to come across as being rude. I'm just pissed off that so much of this thread has been about total crap. It's not fair to Flair.

 

Parv, we've got two years to sort this.

 

Chill.

[BigBadMick]

Also, Loss, I'm really enjoying your run through the title reigns. The 80s sets really brought home to me just how vital Flair was all over the place and it's nice to see some of it put into a nice clear bundle here.

[funkdoc]

i think flair being picked apart to this degree was inevitable for a couple reasons

 

one, it's kinda necessary for any #1 or even top 10 candidate. i mean, the misawa thread has had some discussion on the style he spawned, with people possibly not voting for him at all because of that. the bockwinkel thread mentioned how boring he could be in AJPW sometimes. the nitpicking is out there for other top candidates, just not with this many posts, and i expect it to pick up at least somewhat while flair discussion tails off.

 

two, let's face it: flair is the closest "smart fan" equivalent to HHH in how much he's been shoved down people's throats by those with influence. it's similar to how much national sports coverage focuses on the east coast and LA - there's a natural resentment toward those areas from the rest of the country, and you shouldn't expect much different with someone pushed as hard as flair has been.

[Loss]

Ric Flair's fifth title reign was the most disappointing at this point in his career, even though it's still excellent. Booking in JCP was getting stale and he didn't have any fresh opponents. He was also working with guys that were considered beneath him and he was no longer doing any touring at all. There was also the political chaos associated with the decline of the NWA and rise of WCW. I think for those looking for great performances, you're going to find them here more than great matches, even though there are a few great matches. He was largely working with guys who he had to help along while also trying to get them over enough that people would think his title reign was in jeopardy.

 

Winning and losing the title

Ric Flair vs Ron Garvin (11/26/87) - Starrcade, cage match

Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (02/20/89) - Chi-Town Rumble

 

Five Times The Man (11/26/87 - 02/20/89)

Ric Flair vs Michael Hayes (12/05/87) - TBS TV

Ric Flair vs Sting (01/02/88) - Pro

Ric Flair vs Road Warrior Hawk (01/24/88) - Bunkhouse Stampede

Ric Flair vs Sting (02/07/88) - Worldwide

Ric Flair vs Ricky Santana (03/19/88) - Worldwide

Ric Flair vs Sting (03/27/88) - Clash of the Champions I

Ric Flair vs Nikita Koloff (04/23/88) - Crockett Cup

Ric Flair vs Lex Luger (07/10/88) - Great American Bash

Ric Flair vs Lex Luger (09/10/88) - Philadelphia, handheld

Ric Flair vs George South (11/12/88) - TBS TV

Ric Flair vs Lex Luger (12/26/88) - Starrcade

Ric Flair vs Rick Steiner (01/10/89) - Handheld

Ric Flair vs Eddie Gilbert (February) - Main Event

 

Multi-Man Matches

Ric Flair & Tully Blanchard vs Lex Luger & Ole Anderson (02/19/88) - Cage match

Ric Flair, Barry Windham & Arn Anderson vs Lex Luger, Steve Williams & Nikita Koloff (06/10/88) - Houston TV

Ric Flair, Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs Lex Luger, Sting & Barry Windham (04/03/88) - Main Event

War Games (07/16/88) - Horsemen DVD

Ric Flair & Barry Windham vs Dusty Rhodes & Bam Bam Bigelow (11/25/88) - Championship Wrestling (Sat morning)

Ric Flair & Barry Windham vs Midnight Express (12/07/88) - Clash of the Champions IV

Ric Flair & Barry Windham vs Ricky Steamboat & Eddie Gilbert (01/21/89) - TBS TV

[Loss]

I should also add that Stampede really wanted Flair to defend against Owen Hart in Calgary during 1988, but Crockett wasn't letting him go anywhere by now. Even if the matchup wasn't shown complete, that would be fascinating to view considering where both were at the time.

[JazeUSA]

My current #1 off all time! It will take a LOT from someone else to persuade me to change my mind, the man has had to many top notch matches in to many different territories & companies to be topped, however I am open to suggestions

[shoe]

It means nothing. On recent audio Meltzer mentioned Flair /Reed from Florida was the 1st match he ever rated 5 stars.

[JazeUSA]

Ric Flair vs Ricky Morton (07/05/86) - Bash, Cage match from Horsemen DVD

 

 

****3/4 The best single Ricky Morton match I've ever watched

[soup23]

Ric Flair vs. Jumbo Tsuruta 4/27/78

 

Really nice glimpse of earliest complete Flair I have seen and a great match overall match that on first watch I would only have below the 1982 and 1983 ones.

 

First fall was my favorite of the three and where Flair did the most interesting stuff. Jumbo starts out by working vigorously on Flair's arm and elbow. Good solid stuff of course and Flair was selling right along without doing his "screaming Oh God" technique that would prevail his later years. Flair gets sent into the corner and takes a great bump to the floor elbow first instead of Flair flipping. When Flair does gain the advantage, it is with the use of the a stomp and he begins working over Jumbo's midsection. Finishing stretch was really good as they traded reversals and sold damage at various points. Jumbo evades an atomic drop and hits a back suplex for the first fall victory in around 15 minutes.

 

Second fall shows Flair begin to focus on the leg, but I enjoyed the more technical aspects of Flair's character here. There weren't many instances of Flair begging off or going to the top just because. I could see how NWA veterans like Dory, Brisco etc would see this as Flair being the heir apparent and someone who could to an extent hang on the mat and bridge the gap between the old NWA title style matches and the faster paced, bomb throwing era that the 80's would usher in. Flair's figure four in particular is protected really well in this second fall and he wins with that move in around 8 minutes.

 

The third fall is abbreviated and the most disappointing portion of the match to me as it goes three minutes and essentially consists of both men going for broke. Again, this felt pretty fast paced for 1978 and the reversal pinning cradle that Jumbo wins the match with is clever. Flair at the end of the match is disappointed because it seemed like he had Jumbo right where he wanted him, but he is respectful that on this night, Jumbo was the better man.

 

Very good performance by both men in the 1970's.

 

****1/4

[shoe]

According to my notes I had it at. 4 1/2. This was years ago when I watched it. I need to revisit at some point.

[TRMD]

Not sure I've seen it posted on this thread, but if you are looking for some good post 2000's Flair, all of his matches with Austin in 2002 are really fun.