Coffey Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 On 12/11/2023 at 6:33 AM, El-P said: This Wrestling Kingdom show on paper is the most meh I can remember in years. Well, you weren't wrong. That was a very lackluster, dare I say boring show. Not just because it was five hours long either. New Japan just feels completely ice cold right now. Title reigns of guys like Evil & Sanada didn't help but going back to Naito isn't going to do anything either. Plus having Danielson & Moxley on the show actually made it feel less fresh to me as well. Tanahashi winning was hilarious for all the wrong reasons. A lot of the roster just looks old, slow & fat. Not that guys like Yano were ever in great shape or anything but man... I don't get how they keep trotting out guys like Chase Owens, even for preshow battles royals. Most of the factions in New Japan have felt like nWo b-team for YEARS. A whole roster of Vincent, Brian Addams, Wallstreet & Horace Hogan isn't getting anyone over. Zack Sabre, Jr. felt like a star & then lost which got a chuckle out of me. The ending of Dragon/Okada felt like it came out of nowhere & like the match wasn't over yet. Yota Tsuki Vs. Yuya Uemura was fun for me because I wasn't familiar with either guy & it felt fresh. I liked their finish too & they looked in pretty good shape. I will say, the change in appearance for David Finlay did him a lot of favors too. New Japan needs help. Kind of feel like the rose came off the bloom right around when they started cracking down on Twitter posts of their shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control21 Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 I thought that was the best Wrestle Kingdom since 2020. Maybe tied with last year, but I think the shorter matches were a lot more exciting than the long epics that have worn out their welcome. I could be wrong about this, but I think most people who watch these big NJPW events and then complain about NJPW being cold are primarily AEW fans who don't follow the product anymore and have trouble "getting" what's going on. The result is having an obvious disconnect with the product. You have to follow things regularly to help get a feel for what's what. I have my complaints about NJPW's booking these days, but it's not as bad as some of the AEW elitists make it out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 I think it’s hilarious folks are upset at ZSJ losing when it’s pretty clear he’s gonna get groomed for a run towards the top this year. Getting the belt off him couldn’t be a wiser decision given he needs to be up higher in the pecking order ASAP. The whole “NJPW is cold/needs help/underwhelming” is being compared to an unprecedented run of success for the company in length relative to the state of the wrestling business at large. It’s as big as they’ve been since the multi-year Dome Show years of yore. They’re transitioning into a younger generation and that’s going to take time given the bridges are basically Naito on his last legs, Okada wanting to take a step back a bit even though he’s absolutely the best draw they have, and your mononym folks that Gedo has groomed not panning out. Also, a majority of their top foreigners are not full time anymore and or middling at best. Nemeth will be fun and motivated, but I don’t think he’s gonna be AJ Styles, to throw out an example. The expectation that a company can’t have its ups and downs is unrealistic and we’d be better off accepting a downturn for a little while that leads to an uptick and ride it out that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 Nemeth seemed very much a guy who'd had all the passion sucked out of him the last few years in WWE, I wouldn't be shocked to see him go on a tear in a fresh environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 Nothing was close to the 1-2 punch of last year's WK, but overall the show flowed much better to me. With the exception of the House of Torture match. The fact this is still going on is mind boggling to me. If there's one thing to get rid off immediately, it's this shit. Also, the tag match was quite underwhelming and pretty much a nothing match. Kinda like last year BTW, so I dunno what that tells about Bishamon (although the booking is doing them no favors with completely rushed afterthought of a match in less than ten minutes). Overall I thought it was a very fun WK show, really. The real issue is when you look at the overall picture and who's in it. Tama Tonga. Who is mighty fine but nothing *special* (nothing against he guy, and he really is peaking as a single's babyface now, has been since the G1 in 2021 basically). Dave Finlay. Who is mighty fine but nothing special either and therefore way overpushed right now in a Jeff Jarrett in WCW way. Yuta Tsuji losing on the undercard when he basically should be the IWGP champ already. Shota Umino is a "generational" feud with Ren "House of Torture scrub #12" Narita instead of feuding with the bigger stars of the previous generations. The over-reliance of old gimmicks who have now way overstayed their welcome like the Bullet Club. And yeah, I like the War Dogs, all are really good workers. But the Bullet Club thingy was super hot during the AJ Styles/Kenny Omega days. It's a long time ago now. Just plucking whoever's left in that spot is not making them AJ Styles, Omega or Jay White (who was never as hot as the previous two, but who was/is an exceptional worker nonetheless). Tanahashi should really shake up some things here, that is if he's got the power to do so, which is not a given. So Matt Riddle has challenged Tanahashi. A few years back, this would have sounded exciting. Today ? Not so much. I mean, on a purely "pro-wrestling" level, I guess it still is, although I haven't seen a Matt Riddle match since, I dunno, since some GCW show on a Mania week-end years ago probably. But yeah, Matt Riddle. That being said, if Battle in the Valley looks like this : Ospreay vs Okada Mox vs Takagi in a no DQ match Danielson vs ZSJ part II Holy hell. That's basically Forbidden Doors III level shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 The transitioning to the younger group is going to take years because that's just the booking style in Japan generally, and Gedo specifically. All that hype about the new generation over the summer and fall played out to: 9 years into Naito's "can't win the big one" arc with 4 world titles, 5 or 6 IC, couple of G1 wins, I think 4 WK main events under his belt in that time. On top of that, we're now into year 3 of "his time is running out for him to get back to WK main event/win the G1". We're 8 years into broken down Tana whose time is running out, body completely shot, sacrificing it all to hit what might be his last HFF. He also won a G1, had a WK main event, and I believe literally every active title NJ has had since 2015 outside of juniors. 11 years into Bullet Club, and the nWo B Team comparison is actually worse, because now it's like all the members of the B team got their own spin off groups, all of them worse than ever aside from the Bang Bang Gang. How many years in a row of Sanada looking like a chump against Okada before finally winning past the point people cared and having an ice cold reign? How many years in a row of Goto doing the same but never pulling it out and no one taking him seriously in even a secondary title role anymore? How many years of Ishii putting on banger after banger after banger, being the G1 MVP, and never getting a shot beyond NEVER? I think he's had a grand total of 2 IWGP challenges in the 20 years he's been with NJ. David Finlay having the exact same storyline as Switchblade, which itself was basically the same as Kenny's. Okada's been the juggernaut for a decade+ now, demolished every record there was to have, and still is only 35 They already have Tsuji on his "all the charisma and talent, doesn't win the big one when it counts" track, already have Shota on "all the charisma and passion, could be the ace, can't pull out the big one" track, Uemura as Sanada 2.0 track. Narita going from next Shibata to next EVIL. All this new generation is going to take forever to actually produce. The idea that it's gotta be AEW elitists or people don't actually pay attention to NJ that think it is stale or cold is hilarious. People that watch NJ have been saying it was stale or cold for a few years now, people who just get turned on to NJ for the first time are the ones that most think it is the best shit they've ever seen. Like....Gedo's non-stop repeated angles and stories for years on end has been a talking point here and any other wrestling message board for YEARS. The only things that were keeping NJ popping the last couple of years was Shingo's surprise main event run and heavyweight Ospreay going supernova for 2 years. And now that they're going to be losing Ospreay, with Finlay being pegged as the next top gaijin, bringing in Dolph fucking Ziggler to feud with him :dead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 18 hours ago, Control21 said: I thought that was the best Wrestle Kingdom since 2020. Maybe tied with last year, but I think the shorter matches were a lot more exciting than the long epics that have worn out their welcome. I could be wrong about this, but I think most people who watch these big NJPW events and then complain about NJPW being cold are primarily AEW fans who don't follow the product anymore and have trouble "getting" what's going on. The result is having an obvious disconnect with the product. You have to follow things regularly to help get a feel for what's what. I have my complaints about NJPW's booking these days, but it's not as bad as some of the AEW elitists make it out to be. I been watching New Japan longer than AEW has even existed. Hell, I've been watching Puro since ordering VHS tapes back in what, the late 90's? What a wild statement. I just want the biggest show of the year for New Japan to feel like a good new fresh show. Instead, it was just long with a lot of the same old stuff we're accustomed to for years now. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm glad that the title is off Sanada, his reign was mega boring but... *points to whole roster of scrubs* I can't get exited for Evil Vs Naito. I don't care about a Tanahashi TV title reign in 2024. Moxley bleeding in Japan is just as shit as him bleeding in the States. Danielson spent the entire match working Okada's arm & then still just got hit with the Rainmaker & lost, so it all felt pointless. I don't know, I don't see how I'm the guy on the outside looking in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control21 Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Coffey said: I been watching New Japan longer than AEW has even existed. Hell, I've been watching Puro since ordering VHS tapes back in what, the late 90's? What a wild statement. I just want the biggest show of the year for New Japan to feel like a good new fresh show. Instead, it was just long with a lot of the same old stuff we're accustomed to for years now. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm glad that the title is off Sanada, his reign was mega boring but... *points to whole roster of scrubs* I can't get exited for Evil Vs Naito. I don't care about a Tanahashi TV title reign in 2024. Moxley bleeding in Japan is just as shit as him bleeding in the States. Danielson spent the entire match working Okada's arm & then still just got hit with the Rainmaker & lost, so it all felt pointless. I don't know, I don't see how I'm the guy on the outside looking in here. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. The product feels fresher to me than it did two years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 6 Report Share Posted January 6 When did NJPW World get added to Roku? https://channelstore.roku.com/details/2683188c1fe3c439b3e1109a0981febd/njpw-world It's about damn time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsujin Posted January 6 Report Share Posted January 6 Naito is by far (and has been for a while) their biggest star, and because of Gedo's stupidity and a pandemic (but Gedo's stupidity first and foremost) he never had a proper run on the very top of the company. Now that they're back to having full crowds that can actually make noise and things really got reset into pre-covid, it's the smartest thing they could do in order to try and regain (and even surpass) the popularity of the 10s: putting the belt on their biggest star. However, its gonna be funny when they keep pushing SANADA (he basically got his WK9/12 defeat here, so be ready G1 34 and WK 19!), when the guy keeps underdelivering and doesn't even look like half the star the new Musketeers/Uemura/War Dogs are looking. ZSJ should be their top foreign star, but they're gonna push Finlay instead (which is a not a bad wrestler, but the midcard is his limit). Their top heels are HOT, a stable that should only be a comedy midcard act, if anything. They killed Suzuki Gun in order to create J5G, the most generic stable I've ever seen, only carried by Taichi (who should have been a main eventer for years, now). Hell, the fact that they took away the IWGP Heavy title should tell you enough. Idk, it's just that the priorities feel wrong in this company. And that has happened even before the pandemic, when they kept pushing Okada and Omega ahead of Naito. So we'll see. At least, I think Gedo should stop being the booker considering his desastrous work all these recent years, and while I don't believe Tanahashi will have enough time to book other than the most general routes, they have to let a new team cook. There's no point in changing management if they let the booking guy do the same bullshit as before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 6 Report Share Posted January 6 3 hours ago, Tetsujin said: They killed Suzuki Gun in order to create J5G, the most generic stable I've ever seen, only carried by Taichi (who should have been a main eventer for years, now). Tell me about it. Taichi not getting a main event push with the arc he went through in the last few years, ditching the chickenshit heel to gain the respect of his fellow wrestlers and from the audience and legit becoming a terrific Kawada-like worker, is completely ridiculous, and even moreso when SANADA is put in the spot. The Just 5 guys name is a stroke of ironic genius I guess. Here's telling that SANADA, the guy with the least amount of charisma of maybe the entire roster this side of YOSHI-HASHI, is effectively Just A Guy. Even his fucking music theme sounds generic. And why hasn't anyone told TAKA that "You Already Die" doesn't actually mean anything and sounds dumb as fuck ? I know this is the country that gave us the awesome franponais, but when you try to sell your product to an English speaking language too, maybe don't do stupid sounding shit like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted January 6 Report Share Posted January 6 Both ZSJ and Danielson cut promos for a rematch of their WD match. Kinda sounds like it's will be a submissions only match. After the classic they had in Seattle and the minute or so they had at the start of the New Year Dash main event, count me in for it. Hopefully they do it soon before Dragon gets hurt again. Would love to see how an Osaka or Sumo Hall crowd reacts to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 6 Report Share Posted January 6 34 minutes ago, Jmare007 said: Would love to see how an Osaka or Sumo Hall crowd reacts to it. Or even better. At Korakuen Hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawk Posted January 6 Report Share Posted January 6 14 hours ago, C.S. said: When did NJPW World get added to Roku? https://channelstore.roku.com/details/2683188c1fe3c439b3e1109a0981febd/njpw-world It's about damn time! About two months ago when they revamped the website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted January 6 Report Share Posted January 6 2 hours ago, El-P said: Or even better. At Korakuen Hall. That'd be too perfect to get my hopes up for, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 8 hours ago, JHawk said: About two months ago when they revamped the website. Any idea how well the new site and Roku app work? That's the only reason I never subscribed, beyond the month I bought and returned the horrid Fire Cube. Does NJPW World still have the dumb billing system where you can subscribe on the 30th and then get charged for a second month on the 1st? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 5 hours ago, C.S. said: Any idea how well the new site and Roku app work? That's the only reason I never subscribed, beyond the month I bought and returned the horrid Fire Cube. Does NJPW World still have the dumb billing system where you can subscribe on the 30th and then get charged for a second month on the 1st? At first the app was wonky but that's because the whole NJPW World site was absolutely fucked when they first did the recent revamp. Both seem to be working much better now, watched WK on my Roku with no issues at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 New Japan had previously shied away from using Riddle due to his fondness for the Devil's lettuce, so they must be pretty desperate. Or maybe Tanahashi is more open-minded about that sort of thing. Giving him the "who are ya" treatment is a bit puzzling, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 15 hours ago, sek69 said: At first the app was wonky but that's because the whole NJPW World site was absolutely fucked when they first did the recent revamp. Both seem to be working much better now, watched WK on my Roku with no issues at all. Wish I had known this before. I might've subscribed and watched WK. I mean, I still could, I guess, but I know what happened. 7 hours ago, NintendoLogic said: Giving him the "who are ya" treatment is a bit puzzling, though. Isn't that his gimmick with American wrestlers though? Didn't he do the same to Jungle Boy, or am I thinking of someone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 ZSJ vs Danielson in Osaka for Feb 11th has been officially announced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 On 1/5/2024 at 1:21 PM, strobogo said: Okada's been the juggernaut for a decade+ now, demolished every record there was to have, and still is only 35 It's funny that Gedo did literally everything he could to make Okada the biggest, baddest and best wrestler in New Japan canon almost out of the gate since he came back in 2012, saw how the company bloomed under his reign, and decided "nah that's good no more of that". No one will get that same push, regardless of how interesting or lucrative it could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 19 hours ago, Jmare007 said: ZSJ vs Danielson in Osaka for Feb 11th has been officially announced YES ! So, is Tama actually leaving ? He's 41, it's basically now or never if he wants to taste some of that 'murica money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 6 hours ago, El-P said: So, is Tama actually leaving ? He's 41, it's basically now or never if he wants to taste some of that 'murica money. Unless he was just lying in the press conference, yes, he's leaving. And he's putting the belt on EVIL as his last singles match, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Oh, and Naito's first defense is a rematch with SANADA. Tsuji is also having a rematch with Uemura. New Japan "WK Backlash" in Sapporo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 On 1/10/2024 at 5:29 PM, Jmare007 said: Unless he was just lying in the press conference, yes, he's leaving. And he's putting the belt on EVIL as his last singles match, lol. They actually did an angle where EVIL "forced" NJPW internet crew to delete Tama Tonga from the database, so he would not appear on the NJPW sites anymore. Everything about EVIL is so fucking dumb. On 1/10/2024 at 5:30 PM, Jmare007 said: Oh, and Naito's first defense is a rematch with SANADA. Tsuji is also having a rematch with Uemura. New Japan "WK Backlash" in Sapporo Gedo not being totally washed at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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