jcmmnx Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Has there ever been anything close to what's going on with this Mania where we have the two most over babyfaces in the company booked against each so the fans can "get them out of their system"? What does Cena do post Rusev? He feels so out of place now with Bryan back as the most over face and Reigns as the most pushed face. They have no heels whatsoever if they job Rusev and Bray at Mania. Bryan needs that Rusev match more than Cena, and there's a chance people will be into it enough not to crap on everything else. They will most certainly crap on the main event, but Bryan/Rusev might keep them from shitting on everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I'm not sure I see it that way at all, doc. Ziggler was not a popular indie guy. Wyatt was not a popular indie guy. I had never heard of Jon Moxley being a future WWE main eventer prior to the Dean Ambrose work (my first glimpse of him were those awesome videos on YouTube where he was going after Mick Foley). From what I know, I'm not sure Harper or Ambrose were even top tier indie guys like Bryan Danielson as much as they were journeymen with good reputations for brawls. Reigns IS going to be a star (and had potential to be a huge one had they not rushed him into the position they put him in now) and he wasn't a popular indie guy. Rusev was not a popular indie guy as far as I know. The Miz, Swagger, and Sheamus, who now seem like lifetime midcarders more than future main eventers (though, there was at least a brief period of time when they seemed like bigger deals) weren't popular indie guys. To me, the Daniel Bryan-CM Punk-Cesaro-Rollins love only owes a very small amount to their work on the indies. Look at Sin Cara and Del Rio - they were very popular in Mexico and that reputation had many internet fans thinking they would be WWE main eventers, but their WWE work did not live up to expectations. The same may be said of Sami Zayn and Kevin Owens, who benefitted tremendously from their indie cred in NXT but will have to prove themselves considerably more once they get the call-up. The majority of the audience will have no idea who they are, just like they had no idea who Kaval was. I think there's a misconception that a "smark" fan, like the thousands who booed Reigns in Philly, are educated on today's indie scene or even have any interest in it. Its easy to say that Bryan/Punk/Rollins are proof that Ring of Honor churns out future main eventers when all you do is look at those three and pretend that other guys who are not as universally beloved by the "smart" fans but still valid upper midcarders/potential main eventers (Reigns, Sheamus, Wyatt, Rusev, Ziggler) are light years less popular. If that were true, every RoH talent would have a legit shot at stardom in the WWE and I just don't buy it. Chris Jericho has talked about it on his podcast. Learning how to get over in multiple territories makes it easier to go into the WWE and get over because you know how to get over. This is what Ambrose, Bryan, Punk, or even a Luke Harper has over their co-workers who didn't have that experience...but that certainly doesn't make it a prerequisite for success, it does not make an indie background serve as a guarantee for getting over, and it certainly won't lead to a de-emphasis on other types of talents the WWE scouts (college football players, amateur wrestlers, etc.). Finally, doctor, the WWE has brought in a large number of indie talents over the years (which is what I think you mean by "listening to the fans"), dating back to the 90s when they brought in the likes of 2 Cold Scorpio, Al Snow, Chris Candido, and others, but, ultimately, the roster has, for at least the past two decades, been about balancing a variety of talents in terms of size, style, gimmick, and even backgrounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Isn't Cena vs Rusev on the card for Fast Lane? Why do people think they are running it at Wrestlemania? If they are it is complete insanity to run it a month earlier. Unless they are hedging their bets hoping they can run Undertaker vs Cena and will run some sort of angle if that can't take place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastic Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Isn't Cena vs Rusev on the card for Fast Lane? Why do people think they are running it at Wrestlemania? If they are it is complete insanity to run it a month earlier. Unless they are hedging their bets hoping they can run Undertaker vs Cena and will run some sort of angle if that can't take place. Dave said something about them planning two matches between Cena and Rusev. Presumably, the Fast Lane match could end up with a DQ or Countout finish or something stupid to necessitate a rematch at Wrestlemania. But, I agree with you that it's insanity to run it a month earlier, and potentially leading to overkill territory. What's more, WWE likes to do these things in three's... My wish for the rematch, would be a Submission match at Mania. Everybody would think that Cena's going to win that because Cena never gives up, only for Rusev to make him tap. But that probably won't happen, instead it'll be some gimmick match (possibly still the submission match) but with Cena overcoming the odds and Rusev's undefeated streak coming to an end (and being wasted). What's more, they'll probably all be non-title matches. Granted, Cena's above the US title, but defending it would bring quite a lot of importance back to it, although I'm still convinced they are going to quietly phase out the US title this year. But, Dave could be wrong. They could do Cena/Rusev at Fast Lane, Rusev could win and go on to face somebody else at Wrestlemania like Orton or Ambrose or whoever else comes next in the scarce babyface hierarchy. That just leaves us with Cena and what he's going to do. But back to Bryan, I'm pretty sure we're looking at Bryan vs. Ziggler at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 If they dont take the US belt off Rusev there is no chance of Cena beating him at Mania because no way is Cena winning a US belt after hes been a multi time world champion. Its time his undefeated streak came to a end. Was he unbeaten in NXT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 If they dont take the US belt off Rusev there is no chance of Cena beating him at Mania because no way is Cena winning a US belt after hes been a multi time world champion. Its time his undefeated streak came to a end. Was he unbeaten in NXT? why would you end the undefeated streak now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 why does a guy get chastised for mentioning Bryan's salary in this thread but nobody seems to have an issue with this taking a Rusev/Cena tangent? Don't know why I even care...not trying to make a big deal out of it, but the Bryan salary thing was an interesting item in the context of how they're booking him and I didn't see the issue with it. anyway as for Bryan I am still pretty butthurt about their failure to hitch their wagon to him. Nobody is more fun to watch than him right now, nobody seems to connect with a broader range of their fanbase, few are better ambassadors for the company, and nobody seems more deserving of a real main event run than him. The whole thing has just really disappointed me as a fan and just really crushed my interest in WWE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 That match is why you need Daniel Bryan at the top of the card. Not near the top, not 1B or 1C or 1D.... at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 1) Reigns cheats to beat both Bryan and Brock, turning heel in Rock-as-Corporate Champ fashion. Bryan chases through the summer (with shenanigans along the way as Reigns gets cheap heat shaving off Bryan's beard, dodging the title defense, etc.) until Bryan wins the title at Summerslam, bookending the last two years and kicking off a long run with the belt. Reigns elevates someone by entering a feud with whoever looks brightest in August. Somewhere in this beautiful delusion, Kane steps in wet cement or a large pit. 2) Reigns gets more time with the title. Bryan could win it in the winter by making something like TLC a Starrcade-level show, but the bookers have no clue what they're doing and won't be able to keep the audience on the hook for a 6-9 month chase. 4 months between Mania and Summerslam is plenty of time to make people want to see Bryan beat Reigns. 3) Mind you, I'd rather see Bryan-Lesnar than any of this. You could still have turn Reigns heel at Fast Lane with a loss to Bryan, then have him beat Cena (they've already squandered the Rusev match) at Mania. Suddenly Reigns is a credible, badass heel who's got some of his cred back after beating Cena, then seeking revenge on Bryan. You could even have him cost Bryan the title in a Rollins MITB cash-in if you chose to go that way, given that Rollins has to go for it sometime before June 29 (though I don't think Bryan should lose the title three months after winning it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 It was very interesting tonight hearing the crowd pop so loudly for Bryan on the first segment, then be very fired up for him on the main event. But when he mentioned beating Reigns at Fast Lane he got a mixed response. It's gonna be a pain in the ass for WWE hearing fans support Roman on house shows and most TV shows but then get booed like crazy on PPVs (where there are way more hardcore fans) and "smark cities". I like they are addressing the elephant in the room though. I much rather them booking Reigns vs Bryan and make it seem like Roman is worth a damn by beating him and going to Mania. It wont stop the boos for WM weekend but I think it could payoff on the long run. I also like that they finally decided to go all in with the "loner/pissed character that barely talks" with Reigns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 If they dont take the US belt off Rusev there is no chance of Cena beating him at Mania because no way is Cena winning a US belt after hes been a multi time world champion. Its time his undefeated streak came to a end. Was he unbeaten in NXT? Rusev can drop the US Title without being pinned. Problem solved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 If they dont take the US belt off Rusev there is no chance of Cena beating him at Mania because no way is Cena winning a US belt after hes been a multi time world champion. Its time his undefeated streak came to a end. Was he unbeaten in NXT? why would you end the undefeated streak now? Probably because I cant stand Rusev every week. Besides which im a John Cena fan so I want him to beat him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I'm actually shocked some people are predicting .Bryan is going to go over Reigns at the PPV. They either have Dolph screw him over or Reigns wins clean and they have Bryan give him the babyface seal of approval Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I don't think Bryan is going over but I do think this is a particularly risky move. Just like putting Bryan in the Rumble (and bringing him back beforehand for no good reason except for to pop a rating for Smackdown's night change), this seems like waving a red flag in front of the fans for no good reason. I get the idea that putting Reigns over Bryan, especially cleanly after a good long match where Bryan can help him look good, should, on paper, help give Reigns a seal of approval but I don't think it would work that way in practice. I think it'd be a much better idea to give Bryan something as compelling as possible away from the title picture for both Fast Lane and Mania instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 It strikes me as a match that may be difficult to work. Roman doesn't have the offense to control a long match or really even go 50/50. But if he wins after a guy half his size controls most of the match he comes out looking pretty bad. I'd say they'd benefit from being agented to hell but we saw how the Rumble turned out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 It might pretty good if it's worked like Hart-Diesel at WWF Royal Rumble 1995, but not sure if Reigns is as good at selling as Nash was then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastic Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Well, to try and get the crowd more on Roman's side whilst giving Bryan something meaningful to do: I'd have Roman control the match. The story being told should be that Bryan may have taken a huge knock, confidence-wise following his injury, the elimination at the Rumble. Have Bryan make some big mistakes during his comebacks, such as underestimating Reigns' because Bryan has beaten bigger guys before (Kane, Ryback, etc) and have him eventually pay for it by walking into the second spear (Bryan shouldn't go down to one finisher, we're still trying to preserve his superstar aura) of the match and losing by pinfall. Afterwards, Bryan shakes hands with Reigns, but in tears (a'la Hogan at WMVII) and raises Reigns hand before walking to the back with his head hung in shame. The next night on Raw, Reigns praises Bryan and vows to win the title at Wrestlemania and then give Bryan a shot that he more than deserves, given he never actually lost the title. Bryan comes out and thank Reigns, but declines, stating that he doesn't think he has what it takes any more. Backstage, Bryan encounters Lesnar and Heyman who mock him. The following week, Reigns stands triumphant in the main event, but Lesnar runs out and attacks him. Bryan runs out to make the save but gets destroyed by Lesnar (this plants the seeds for a later Lesnar/Bryan match). At some point, have Ziggler defeat somebody big like Rollins and start making a case to face the winner of Reigns/Lesnar for the title. The Authority, reasoning that it isn't going to matter because Reigns will lose, and even if he doesn't, they have a plan B in Rollins, makes Bryan vs. Ziggler official for Mania, with the winner being named the number one contender. Bryan, his confidence still knocked heavily, starts to build himself back up, meanwhile a Ziggler heel turn is hinted at with some favorable encounters with the Authority (since they despise Bryan more than any other babyface on the roster) who say that Ziggler has the potential to be an A+ player, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Posted it in the Current WWE thread, but I really like what they did last night. It should heat up Reigns as either a babyface or heel and is at worst a smart way of trying to pass him some of Bryan's momentum while also featuring Bryan. You can team them up leading into or even coming out of Fast Lane, and now have the ability to book Reigns in segments and matches without worrying that people will crap on it because its not Bryan. I don't know if it'll work but it makes a ton of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I felt like everyone came out looking like whiners last night. And I hated the HHH promo talking about the booking and then at the same time acting heelish towards Reigns. Reminded me of Russo era Nitro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I don't think Bryan is going over but I do think this is a particularly risky move. Just like putting Bryan in the Rumble (and bringing him back beforehand for no good reason except for to pop a rating for Smackdown's night change), this seems like waving a red flag in front of the fans for no good reason. I get the idea that putting Reigns over Bryan, especially cleanly after a good long match where Bryan can help him look good, should, on paper, help give Reigns a seal of approval but I don't think it would work that way in practice. I think it'd be a much better idea to give Bryan something as compelling as possible away from the title picture for both Fast Lane and Mania instead. It's risky but Reigns was getting booed at Fast Lane and WM weekend no matter what they did. I think it's a smart thing putting him against Bryan in a hard fought match because even though the hardcores will get pissed, the rest of the audience will respect Reigns more and will cheer big for him. I mean, last night Reigns hit Big Show with a sick spear and 5 minutes later the crowd gave Bryan a mixed reaction when he said he was going to beat Roman. If they can put on a very good match with a couple of showcase spots for Reigns I think he'll be in a better position than if he just faced Big Show on a Last Man Standing match. Bryan showing respect after losing and Roman promising a title shot after WM if he beats Lesnar sounds like a good idea too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stomperspc Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I think they are banking on two results from the Bryan/Reigns match: (1) Bryan makes Reigns look good which would theoretically take some of the heat off of Reigns from those who feel he is not ready in-ring wise and therefore undeserving; (2) From a story line perspective they can then acknowledge that Bryan had his chance but couldn't get it done. While I think most of the backlash is from a meta perspective (ie. Bryan is better than these other guys and should be getting a push), there is still a booking element. Part of the issue last year was that Bryan wasn't in the Rumble and didn't even have an opportunity to go to WM. From a story line perspective, he had a right to complain because was screwed over a bunch of times and then not given a chance in the Rumble. This year he was given a chance in the Rumble. Now he is getting a second chance by virtue of not losing the title in the ring. If Reigns goes over him cleanly, Bryan can't complain about not having a WM title match because he was clearly given the chance and clearly didn't earn it. It will likely take a little edge off of his support. Maybe everyone is too smart now and they'll see through both of those things regardless, but I am not sure. I think it is worth a shot. I don't think it is likely that they come out of Fast Lane worse off than they are now in terms of fans rejecting Reigns and wanting Bryan. The upside is that Reigns has a great showing thanks to working with Bryan which gets the fans off of his case a bit and they close any story loopholes regarding Bryan have a legit claim for a title match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu_chipmunk Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I think they are banking on two results from the Bryan/Reigns match: (1) Bryan makes Reigns look good which would theoretically take some of the heat off of Reigns from those who feel he is not ready in-ring wise and therefore undeserving; (2) From a story line perspective they can then acknowledge that Bryan had his chance but couldn't get it done. While I think most of the backlash is from a meta perspective (ie. Bryan is better than these other guys and should be getting a push), there is still a booking element. Part of the issue last year was that Bryan wasn't in the Rumble and didn't even have an opportunity to go to WM. From a story line perspective, he had a right to complain because was screwed over a bunch of times and then not given a chance in the Rumble. This year he was given a chance in the Rumble. Now he is getting a second chance by virtue of not losing the title in the ring. If Reigns goes over him cleanly, Bryan can't complain about not having a WM title match because he was clearly given the chance and clearly didn't earn it. It will likely take a little edge off of his support. Maybe everyone is too smart now and they'll see through both of those things regardless, but I am not sure. I think it is worth a shot. I don't think it is likely that they come out of Fast Lane worse off than they are now in terms of fans rejecting Reigns and wanting Bryan. The upside is that Reigns has a great showing thanks to working with Bryan which gets the fans off of his case a bit and they close any story loopholes regarding Bryan have a legit claim for a title match. The way Raw ended last night also helped in that Reigns looked more like an ass-kicker (which got him over in the first place) instead of a dope reciting stories about magic beans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 ha Kane returns at the end of SD and attacks Bryan. So this feud is still not over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragemaster Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 The truth is if Bryan loses at fast lane, they will need to give him a main event level match at Mania. The only two men I can see the fans accepting Bryan wrestle at Mania are Batista playing of last year match, or Shawn Michael's who if he was coming back would be more likely to be in tag match, with HHH against sting/Rock. As Shawn and Rock have both said Sting is the one guy they would both like to work with. If Bryan loses due to interference from a big name it might just appease the fans, as it would set up a big match at mania. If the plan is for Bryan to wrestle Kane, Ziggler, Sheamus or the big show, it would just piss off the fans, as they not a main event level match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 http://www.tvguide.com/news/why-well-never-stop-rooting-for-daniel-bryan-wrestlemania/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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