JerryvonKramer Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 The only interesting comparison between Cena and Bret as draws would be in Europe, especially UK / Ireland / Germany. Bret was always a big card here. I have no idea how over Cena is with the average UK fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 My understanding is that the Sharpshooter was basically forced on him. The way Bret tells it in his book, Pat Patterson came up to him one day and asked him if he knew how to do a scorpion deathlock. He didn't, so he had Konnan of all people teach it to him, and the rest is history. Konnan was hanging around in WWF then?! Max Moon was designed for him. When did Bret actually start using the sharpshooter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Early 1991 I believe Jerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Cena for me. Cena has had far more GREAT matches in my opinion than Bret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 This is tough. Cena, clearly, has lot more high end matches. However, he had montly ppvs and was in that situation a lot to have them. That is why I hate the great match theory. I liked both guys match structure, selling and storytelling. Where, I think, Bret has the edge is believe-ability in the ring and finishing sequences. Bret was Bret in the ring. A no nonsense never give up technician who would beat you with skill. Cena is a man with super strength that will never give up, but just throws stuff at you until you eventually go down. Switch each other and what would had happened. Would Bret being having as many great matches as Cena would have? I think most likely. However, putting Cena in Bret's shoes could be iffy. Long ppv matches with Diesel, Hakushi, Jean Pierre Laffite, etc.. maybe he pulls stuff out of them, but I don't have the confidence that I have in Bret. I think it's close though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 This is tough. Cena, clearly, has lot more high end matches. However, he had montly ppvs and was in that situation a lot to have them. That is why I hate the great match theory. I liked both guys match structure, selling and storytelling. Where, I think, Bret has the edge is believe-ability in the ring and finishing sequences. Bret was Bret in the ring. A no nonsense never give up technician who would beat you with skill. Cena is a man with super strength that will never give up, but just throws stuff at you until you eventually go down. Switch each other and what would had happened. Would Bret being having as many great matches as Cena would have? I think most likely. However, putting Cena in Bret's shoes could be iffy. Long ppv matches with Diesel, Hakushi, Jean Pierre Laffite, etc.. maybe he pulls stuff out of them, but I don't have the confidence that I have in Bret. I think it's close though. Bret had monthly PPV's in May-Dec 1995, Jan, Fed, March, November, December 1996 as well as 97 (I know he had a knee injury). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 This is tough. Cena, clearly, has lot more high end matches. However, he had montly ppvs and was in that situation a lot to have them. That is why I hate the great match theory. I liked both guys match structure, selling and storytelling. Where, I think, Bret has the edge is believe-ability in the ring and finishing sequences. Bret was Bret in the ring. A no nonsense never give up technician who would beat you with skill. Cena is a man with super strength that will never give up, but just throws stuff at you until you eventually go down. Switch each other and what would had happened. Would Bret being having as many great matches as Cena would have? I think most likely. However, putting Cena in Bret's shoes could be iffy. Long ppv matches with Diesel, Hakushi, Jean Pierre Laffite, etc.. maybe he pulls stuff out of them, but I don't have the confidence that I have in Bret. I think it's close though. Bret had monthly PPV's in May-Dec 1995, Jan, Fed, March, November, December 1996 as well as 97 (I know he had a knee injury). Mostly on the undercard and only for a year or two. Cena has had monthly ppvs for how many years? 9 years on top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Not to mention Bret himself has stated by the mid late 90's he felt his body slowing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Cena is completely banged up now too. He publically won't admit that, with all his feats of strength in the gym. Bret 1995 is Cena's age now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Re: Bret learning the sharpshooter from Konnan, I believe it was right after Mania VII when Konnan happened to be at a show or two wrestling dark matches and before he wrestled with the Max Moon gimmick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Since I had that SummerSlam 06 file to watch the ECW stuff, I watched the Cena vs Edge main event hoping that would wash the bad taste out of my mouth, and it did. Edge is kinda goofy at times, and Cena clearly isn't versatile in term of offense, but they had a very good main event match without the finishers/kickout spamming annoyance. It's fascinating to hear the crowd reaction to Cena in 2006 and in Boston ! That in itself makes the match fun to watch, and Cena is kinda like a 90's Tokyo Dome-like worker : the simpler he works, the best it is. That was the case here, so. Pretty clever finish too. It's really hard to compare him with Bret actually, as the context and way of working are so different. I guess he's kinda like Bruno in a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 Cena's latest indy tendencies got me thinking about his career and his wrestling ability in general. I came to the conclusion that his stuff since 2015 doesn't really diminish what he did when he was really good/great because you could argue he is in his post-prime and what he is doing doesn't represent his best work. That being said, as I thought about it, he is nowhere near as good as someone like Bret, IMO. Cena has more decent-good matches for sure but that's more due to accumulated quality resulting from the sheer volume he worked. It's harsh to say he was hit or miss but he could be inconsistent. I'd take Bret's average performance (even when he might BS his way through a match) over Cena's average performance. Bret is way superior when it comes to inputs and he is much more versatile. Bret also completely swamps him when it comes to truly high end matches (****+) matches, IMO. In fact Bret's list of great singles matches against a variety of opponents is pretty staggering. I have no idea why some people say he doesn't have the volume for an all timer. Cena is easily the better ace though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianB Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 As a worker? Bret for sure imo. As a promo? I mean both have had bad promos, but Cena strikes me as the better promo. I'm not crazy about his character and he has some bad ones, but he also can be very good and frequently has shown that, so he's definitely more talented. Bret's best promo work is 1997 and that stacks up, but the rest is mostly far behind from what I've seen. He can be very good, but he's not as talented imo. I doubt it, but Cena might have a bigger volume of ****+ matches simply because he's been an ace for over a decade and was one in an era of monthly PPVs and where TV could also get big quality matches. Bret's work looks believable and his storytelling is almost always simple, straightforward, and effective (both the biggest advantages I think he has over Shawn, which is a common comparison.) Also, Bret got some very high quality matches out of substandard subworkers. My impression is that Cena often gets that when he's with a superior technical worker. In terms of peak years, what Cena years would people put ahead of Bret's 1994 and 1997? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therealheel Posted November 5, 2016 Report Share Posted November 5, 2016 I find it hard to see the argument that Cena even has a chance when compared to Bret Hart , Cena has never come close to having as good of a year as Bret Hart did in 1997 , Bret Harts work during this time was off the charts and rivals anybody in the history of wrestling for best year as a performer. You can't over look the fact that Bret Hart worked in Japan for many tours and for many years , also he had Stampede wrestling days that was close to 10 years worth of work , people cant forget this when talking about Bret Hart. Cena is one dimensional in and out of the ring ,he works hard but that doesn't go very far if you don't properly know how to work in the first place. Cena improves daily and is a beast but until he proves to me that he can step outside of the WWE and work then I will NEVER be able to give him the proper respect he may deserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkookypunk43 Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 I think John is way more consistent with his great matches than Bret ever was and the last two years have proven that to me. I feel that a lot of Bret's work is boring to me, I feel it's very slow and plodding to be frank. I think Bret is great at his style of match but can't adapt, Cena has had great matches with almost every opponent he's had including The Great Khali, JBL, Randy Orton, and other subpar workers. I feel Bret works to the level of his opponent which is a detriment when he faces bad wrestlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 For the question of which year of Cena's compares to Bret's best, the answer is 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benbeeach Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 For the question of which year of Cena's compares to Bret's best, the answer is 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 What's the feeling on 2008-2010 Cena? That was another one of my down periods for watching wrestling but I have seen some stuff I really liked (anything with Batista, some Big Show stuff) but also some things like the endless attempts at making the Orton feud feel special or the Miz stuff sorta misfiring that I'm kinda eh to. How was the NXT stuff? I don't know if it's really an out there opinion but I think from 2011-2014 he was as good as he was in 2007. Maybe not on a PPV to PPV basis but it's pretty crazy how much great stuff he put in in that time, especially looking at his mentality switch of "trying to become The Guy" in 2007 to being "The Guy" during that time period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 What's the feeling on 2008-2010 Cena? That was another one of my down periods for watching wrestling but I have seen some stuff I really liked (anything with Batista, some Big Show stuff) but also some things like the endless attempts at making the Orton feud feel special or the Miz stuff sorta misfiring that I'm kinda eh to. How was the NXT stuff? I don't know if it's really an out there opinion but I think from 2011-2014 he was as good as he was in 2007. Maybe not on a PPV to PPV basis but it's pretty crazy how much great stuff he put in in that time, especially looking at his mentality switch of "trying to become The Guy" in 2007 to being "The Guy" during that time period. I think he was at worst a Top 5 guy in WWE from 2008-10. In 2007 he was on another planet, but there's no great drop off in quality when he comes back from the injury. The list of his high end matches from those years is pretty impressive: vs Orton, No Way Out 2008 vs Triple H, Night of Champions 2008 vs Batista, Summerslam 2008 vs Jericho, Survivor Series 2008 vs Jericho, Armageddon 2008 vs Shawn, Raw 12/1/09 vs Show, Smackdown 27/2/09 vs Edge, Backlash 2009 (LMS) vs Orton, Breaking Point 2009 (I Quit) vs Orton, Bragging Rights 2009 (Ironman) vs Batista, Wrestlemania XIV vs Batista, Extreme Rules 2010 (LMS) vs Batista, Over the Limit 2010 (I Quit) WWE vs Nexus, Summerslam 2010 vs Barrett, HIAC 2010 vs Dolph, Raw 20/12/10 vs Dolph, TLC 2010 (Ladder) And there's a lot of really good TV stuff as well - matches vs Swagger, Jeff Hardy, Triple H, Dolph, Gabriel, Jericho, Punk, Henry, that Bourne tag...just off the top of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El McKell Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 Sorry to be a dick fact checking when i basically agree with what you're saying but that Ziggler ladder match at TLC wasn't until 2012. At TLC 2010 Cena had a pretty crappy chairs match with Wade Barrett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 Yeah, it was. Think it was the first appearance of the Cenacanrana as well. Thanks for the matches, I'll get on them when I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 Of course, my bad. I confuse their 2010 and 2012 feuds. The SD match on 21/12/10 is great too though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.