Loss Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Cena held the title last summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 According to Dave, the mentality behind Sheamus as champion last night is that people will boo him where they would cheer Ambrose if he turned, and they don't want to put the title on Roman until the people are with him all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 If they keep making Reigns look like a schmuck it'll be a tough task to get the people behind him all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 They need to build a time machine and not have him win the last Royal Rumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 They might have tried actually giving him some good booking this year too. The Wyatt feud was overly long and seemed to have no real progression and the one thing that might have actually set it apart and given Reigns some sympathy as a babyface, the stuff with Wyatt having pictures of Roman's daughter, they got rid of as soon as possible. Â We've seen when they WANT to build someone up they can still do it, as evidenced by the great buildup of Rusev that lasted almost a whole year. But what have they really done to rehab Reigns after Mania? A whole bunch of nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 According to Dave, the mentality behind Sheamus as champion last night is that people will boo him where they would cheer Ambrose if he turned, and they don't want to put the title on Roman until the people are with him all the way. Why does the champion have to be a heel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 So that Roman can step in as the conquering hero that saved everyone from something they didn't want to see. Or at least that's the explanation, that it got Daniel Bryan over so why can't it get Roman Reigns over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 They really didn't learn the lesson of Daniel Bryan is that what got him so over is that they went out of their way to make it look like the company in kayfabe and real terms didn't want him to be the champ so people rallied behind him because the real life decision makers in WWE are by far the biggest heels to the audience. Â At this point putting the company stamp of approval on a guy is like the kiss of death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I really wish they'd had the guts to turn Reigns heel and have Ambrose chase him. The whole company is just so stale and boring right now. They need to do something bold to heat things up again and Reigns as the corporate champ would have been a good jumping off point. Would have been a great way to hit the reset button on both guys too. People are just dying to boo Reigns and I think the fans would ultimately turn him face again within a year (and actually cheer him) and Ambrose could really use another psycho vengeance run. Then at least you'd have 2 guys that fans are hot for instead of two guys they're kind of lukewarm about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 The stuff with Breeze irritated me. Â In NXT he was self absorbed prick and the selfies were a part of that. In WWE he is a whiny millennial taking selfies. Â In NXT he was a heel. In WWE it's just the writers having no idea about millennials at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 so if they don't want Roman to win the belt until everyone is behind him did they change their minds on having him win the title at this show if Rollins was still active? I guess they thought Rollins was a strong enough heel to get the people to unanimously cheer Reigns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Worst PPV of the year? Â I was pissed last night, but now I'm just laughing at how hard WWE trolled its "Universe." Â Sheamus was a dorky dweeb in a nothing match earlier on the show, and now he's the World Heavyweight Champion. His character is still ice cold either way. Â BTW, WTF was up with Reigns crying for several minutes at the end? Surprised no one mentioned that. I'd cry too in his position, but still. Â What's sad is that I went from rooting to Ambrose to rooting for Reigns as soon as Sheamus tried to cash in. I bet I wasn't alone. WWE coulda gotten their boy some genuine cheers if Sheamus's lame cash-in was thwarted by Reigns and his cheering Roman Empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Last night's show was just another example of what is wrong with the modern WWE. The last time I watched a WWE show and felt like I saw something special was Lesnar ending the Undertaker's streak. Before that it was probably the "Pipe Bomb" promo. Wrestling, when it is good, is always building to one of those moments. If the audience can see the strings, we don't care about the puppets. The ending of that show was the exact opposite of what they should be doing. I watched Survivor Series, but that is only because I wasn't doing anything else. This is supposedly the 4th biggest show of the year, there was going to be a new champion, and somehow it still didn't feel special. They could have made this feel like something during the show by giving Owens the upset win, turning Ambrose or Reigns heel, or a number of other things that 75% of the audience couldn't have predicted. I can't remember a time before I was a wrestling fan, and I've seen worse wrestling promotions, but this is the most boring wrestling promotion I've ever watched. Â Another huge problem with the ending is Sheamus isn't over. He is a good wrestler, but his character is a braided beard and a mohawk. There is nothing that makes him feel special, he's just another guy on the roster. He hasn't been on a win streak, he hasn't cut any memorable promos, he hasn't been in a meaningful feud, he's just a guy holding a briefcase. That is not his fault. The problem is that they don't book anyone on the roster strongly. Sheamus' lack of heat is just a symptom of a larger illness. They have 5 hours of television every single week, and do not give any thought to any characters on the undercard. Going into last night was there a single feud that you cared about? Who is the #1 contender for the US Championship? The Intercontinental Championship? The Tag Team Championship? Shouldn't there always be a feud for those titles? The only value those titles hold is that they should be where prospects cut their teeth before going to the main event. They stopped doing that, and the entire roster seems directionless. The champion got injured, and they didn't have a single person on the roster who felt like they were worthy of holding the top title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I am actually pretty shocked at how mediocre, lackluster, and milquetoast this show was given how great RAW has been this past month. The best RAW of the year happened about 4 weeks ago and the past two weeks have featured good to great matches up an down the card. There was nothing on this card that would even come close to the quality on RAW recently. Xavier Woods' hair was the most memorable thing. Â Selfishly, I am going to TLC next month and I am wicked pumped my favorite wrestler, Sheamus will be headlining. My personal dream scenario is Sheamus vs Roman at TLC and Brock vs Sheamus at Rumble. That would be the two top dream Sleeze matches that have. I also understand Sheamus as a character sucks and has absolutely no heat. That is a pretty lame way to end the PPV. Still, I am happy Sheamus did not fail as he would be permanently fucked. Given the booking, there was no good way to have him cash in MITB. He did not have the heat Rollins had last year. I wish he ran through the roster this summer to set this up. I predict his booking will be shit, but that wont change the fact that his matches are going to rock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 The only good thing about Seamus' bit at the end was at least, mercifully, they didn't announce him jumping Roman by playing his goddamn theme music. So that was good. Pretty heatless crowd that he got the belt though, like not even booing, just indifference. I would have enjoyed it a lot more if Roman had put together even a brief rally. Like, just give him one big spear for a nearfall just to swerve the fans a little, would have gone a long way. Â In the month I've been back Seamus has been booked as a midcard nobody, so I'm not sure what to think about all this. Â They finally got the crowd to pop big for Roman when he speared Triple H and then... yeah... Â I thought Roman/Ambrose was a match where both guys tried hard but the audience knew the screwjob was in and they weren't buying it. Too bad I thought they worked hard and it was otherwise pretty decent. Â It's kind of weird that Vince's favourite WWE finish of all time was Yokozuna/Hogan from Wrestlemania IX but that seems to be something we can say is fact by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I think I would have done Reigns/Owens as the final. Sheamus cashes in mid match, kicks the shit out of Reigns. Owens hits the release power bomb on Sheamus and then covers Reigns to win the title. You get your heel champion, Reigns gets screwed in a not terrible way and you take the MITB off the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Worst PPV of the year? Â I was pissed last night, but now I'm just laughing at how hard WWE trolled its "Universe." Â Sheamus was a dorky dweeb in a nothing match earlier on the show, and now he's the World Heavyweight Champion. His character is still ice cold either way. Â BTW, WTF was up with Reigns crying for several minutes at the end? Surprised no one mentioned that. I'd cry too in his position, but still. Â What's sad is that I went from rooting to Ambrose to rooting for Reigns as soon as Sheamus tried to cash in. I bet I wasn't alone. WWE coulda gotten their boy some genuine cheers if Sheamus's lame cash-in was thwarted by Reigns and his cheering Roman Empire. Â ON the reaction show last night, we all gave the show a thumbs up with a thumbs down in booking (except for Johnny Sorrow, go figure). This was not the worst show of the year at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I think I would have done Reigns/Owens as the final. Sheamus cashes in mid match, kicks the shit out of Reigns. Owens hits the release power bomb on Sheamus and then covers Reigns to win the title. You get your heel champion, Reigns gets screwed in a not terrible way and you take the MITB off the table. I agree, I think Owens is the only person who could have come out of the show the champion and felt like a big deal. No one would have expected it, and he is the only person who can put himself over on the mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 ON the reaction show last night, we all gave the show a thumbs up with a thumbs down in booking (except for Johnny Sorrow, go figure). This was not the worst show of the year at all. Â What was worse IYO? None of the matches were better than "okay" because they all seemed rushed for time. (Reigns vs. Ambrose, in particular, felt criminally short when it should've been an easy Match of the Year contender; Breeze vs. Ziggler also could've gone longer.) And the booking, as you said, sucked. All of the other PPVs at least had something good or interesting, even if the overall event wasn't a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Oh boy...if they are waiting for the fans to come around on Reigns before giving him the belt, I guess he will never be the champion then. Â Edit- And that philosophy is so weird too. They had no problem forcing pushes on fans. I mean Cena is the obvious example of the franchise ace who got pushed despite losing support from fans early on in his run. Like I said, shit or get off the pot. If you want him to be the guy, make him the guy, period. I can understand not wanting to spend yet another decade fighting with the fans on the guy and his push, but ultimately its their show. Do what they want/need and go with it. And the worst part is there is such an easy solution to it, turn him heel and build him up as the guy from that angle. The more wins he gets, the begrudging respect they can turn into a babyface run. Like Triple H in 2002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Dave didn't say this literally, but I got the impression from how he worded it that the reason he's sticking with Reigns is in large part philosophical. They have got to maintain their ability to manipulate the audience, because if they can't, they're fucked. So a lot of this is Vince trying to prove that it can still be done because it has to be able to still be done. Â EDIT TO ADD: What he actually said was that there is a game right now in WWE where they have to prove they can still manipulate the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Is Roman Reigns the modern day Lex Express-era Lex Luger? :\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I don't think any of the matches were bad, but there wasn't a single match on the show that made me want to watch it again. My thumbs don't go up for merely above average matches. I need something memorable or at least something with replay value. These matches were fine, but so are 10,000 other matches I'll never rewatch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Dave didn't say this literally, but I got the impression from how he worded it that the reason he's sticking with Reigns is in large part philosophical. They have got to maintain their ability to manipulate the audience, because if they can't, they're fucked. So a lot of this is Vince trying to prove that it can still be done because it has to be able to still be done. Â EDIT TO ADD: What he actually said was that there is a game right now in WWE where they have to prove they can still manipulate the public. turning a guy heel only to let the fans gradually turn him face is the ultimate manipulation of the audience, though. Â it's like in their constant efforts to manipulate their audience they've completely lost the ability to manipulate their audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew wardlaw Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I really didn't have a problem with the booking last night. I didn't think any of the matches were very good, but as far as the outcome of the tournament, I have no issues. I'm actually really into it because I LOVE Sheamus. Here's my take, I don't know what the original plans were, but to me having Sheamus as a transitional Hampton to eat up some down time is a good move, and I'd argue it protects Reigns and Ambrose. Like Meltzer said, if Reigns is your guy, you don't want his big title win as a face to be met with boos. He's improved a lot this year and I think people are starting to get behind him. If you give it to Ambrose, who I hate btw, just to lose at Rumble or something then everyone would be mad. I heard someone say that the best thing would have been to turn Reigns heel and have him go on a run as a badass heel, which would give him experience controlling matches and would inevitably turn him back face. I think that would've been a great move but it doesn't result in Sheamus being champ so I don't care. Â My personal dream scenario is Sheamus vs Roman at TLC and Brock vs Sheamus at Rumble.Dude yes, I'll lose my mind for these. Sheamus rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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