Cap Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 I believe this was only mentioned once or twice in this thread, but its definitely worth repeating as I have been watching this show in pieces since it first aired, and that is the commentary on the show. From start-to-finish Todd Phillips and Corey Graves ADDED to the show. I think Corey Graves is the best commentator in WWE. The guy has passion, knowledge, knows when to get smarky but not take it overboard like Mike Striker (who I also love). Never liked Graves the wrestler, but as a TV personality and talker- he is great. I hope he continues going what he is currently doing, because its working. I can only imagine the cringe-worthiness of Lawler, Cole, JBL, and Saxton messing up a good show like this by being complete idiots in the booth. So yes! Big kudos to Graves and Phillips. Agreed. I am rewatching it now. I came away really thinking they were really good on first watch and I am noticing it again this time around. I sometimes don't love Graves because he can get into that Jesse Ventura mode of needlessly pointing out logical flaws in a match, but I think he is also really good at getting a matches nuance and accenting that without beating the audience over the head with it. He does seem like he is better with Phillips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Forgot to mention and Jimmy reminded me: Nakamura's theme is bad ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Compiling my thoughts posted elsewhere in one, condensed post. Solid tag match. Scott Dawson is ready right now, work-wise, to go main roster and be a solid midcard mechanic. If he can talk then he has Double A-tier star potential. Gable and Jordan are very, very green, and I definitely get the feeling that Dawson was the general for everybody. Probably giving it ***. Corbin/Aries was alright. I understand why they did that finish but I feel like it should've gone the other way. **1/2 Zayn/Nakamura thoughts, upon first viewing and rewatch... FIRST WATCH: The forearm trade spot should've been after Nakamura was built as a hugely dangerous striker for at least a couple months. That way it means something for Zayn to be able to stand tall and take them instead of "oh cool spot." Good match hampered by occasions of awful camera work. This felt like a big match that we built to for a month or two (but without any proper build so the heat was all "this is a good exhibition match" which is a very stale kind of heat these days). **** REWATCH: Rewatching it now. Feel comfortable with my ratings for Revival/Alpha and Aries/Corbin, but I'm going with a downgrade to Nak/Zayn to ***3/4, mostly for the crowd and a few choice moments. I like the story being told of Sami, on the eve of the biggest moment in his entire career, has to be the scapegoat to Nakamura. He has this look on his face right away that he knows he's getting his ass kicked tonight and he seems to actually pick up the pace and start believing that he can win not long before he hits Blue Thunder. Nakamura is Nakamura, he's just physical charisma personified. My issues are all from the bumping and selling, which was all fine by strong style standards but subpar for Zayn, where so much of his allure to this point has been with how much sympathy he can generate over the simplest of bumps and now he feels like he's trying to be a tough strong style wrestler (which he isn't). I'll probably get crucified for this, but Nakamura's kicks are loose and sloppy. He's probably holding back because he could legitimately kick somebody's head in but when commentary hypes his expertise with his kicks I expect more LowKi or Ultimo Dragon and less CM Punk. For comparison, Asuka is doing something close in spirit to Nakamura character-wise (eccentric but dangerous) but is very much so more believable since every strike of here looks focused and bludgeoning. Starting Asuka/Bayley now. Stephanie being boo'd from the crowd warms my heart. Bayley is exposed here as not being on Asuka's level. She was great with the other NXT-trained women, but working with somebody who came from the joshi system is just showing the faults of WWE-approved training. It's all about working with broad strokes and not bothering to spend enough time on the details. Her strikes look weak and she's clearly remembering the routine instead of selling this as a legitimate fight. Yeah. I've gotten grumpy. The finish shouldn't have taken so long. I love love LOVE that Asuka went after Bayley's right arm and focused on that with the Chickenwing, but even with Bayley being so over and such a great face the choke out should've happened either earlier or after more of a struggle. As it is, she basically was lying down with one arm moving and Asuka cuddling her. *** Does Joe's theme sound like what would happen if Cypress Hill and RZA worked together to anybody else? It feels like it could use B Real to me. Balor's music is fantastic and the entrance is usually the best one around today. This one not so much. That head dress is fucking ridiculous and nobody should ever sell fear when he wears it. He looks like a rejected ICP character with it on and a thousand times more dangerous when he takes it off. I feel like it would look even better if his head was shaved instead of the high and tight. Commentary covers for Joe's no-sell of Balor's goofy hat by saying most would be afraid of this chainsaw wielding demon but not Joe. God, Corey Graves is good at his fucking job. Fantastic opening as Joe gets caught off guard and rushes Balor on the defense, then keeps tossing him out of the ring, proving this ring is HIS. Balor finally repays him and follows Joe out, showing he's willing to go beyond Joe, and Joe tosses him into the crowd, widening his borders. Balor realizes what's happening and fights back, bringing it back into the ring and getting the lead until Joe shoves the ref away and clobbers Balor. Joe tosses him back out and follows with an elbow suicida to let him know that play time is fucking over and Joe's going to do what he does best: KILL. The blood stoppage is fantastic. Joe knows he can destroy Balor right now but Finn is getting time to recover and Joe is getting pissed. He finally gets back in the ring and catches Balor with the STJoe and his adrenaline is down so he needs to slow down the pace. He gets a nearfall and blood stoppage again. If this were a real fight, I would think this was complete bullshit. The challenger is clearly destroying the champion and you're only checking his wound when he has Balor down and out? Somebody in the league doesn't war him to win. Joe's frustrated but tiring and that allows Finn to take it further. Odd how there's no blood stoppage when Balor is on offense, no? Crazy how that works. Balor on offense is fine but nothing extraordinary, so I'm thinking of him more as a strong style Sting. He's Sting's gritty reboot, faster paced and only donning the paint for major moments so we can see the actor's face but still pleasing the fanboys when it matters. If Balor is the NXT Sting, that makes Joe the NXT Vader. I am so in love with this idea that I'm already calling this the Match of the Night. Muscle Buster gets 2.9 and Joe, bleeding again, is going nuts. Strike exchange and they're double KO for a bit, then Balor goes Demon and fires away on Joe. Finish keeps both guys strong and puts over a reason for another match, with Joe having very legitimate gripes with the blood stoppage only happening when he was close to finishing it early on, and Balor was lucky to be near the corner. Balor, though, can dispute it as Joe got too cocky each time he was ahead and allowed Balor to recuperate, and Joe was shit-talking Balor as he had him in the choke which made Finn dig that much deeper. Wonderful finish. Great story. Definitely the match of the night. ****1/2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus_McCrae Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 I was really disappointed in Nakamura's character work. He won't get opportunities with those effeminant mannerisms. He needs to be an asskicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 I was really disappointed in Nakamura's character work. He won't get opportunities with those effeminant mannerisms. He needs to be an asskicker. They signed him to be Shinsuke Nakamura, why would he suddenly drop all the mannerisms that he's gotten over with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Is he gay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 I was really disappointed in Nakamura's character work. He won't get opportunities with those effeminant mannerisms. He needs to be an asskicker. Is he gay? You're dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Why's it dumb to ask if he's gay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Because it's dumb and irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 At the very least it makes you look dumb for falling for a clear troll post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 The fact that his mannerisms are a bit effeminate AND that he still kicks ass is one of things that captivated me about him and what I think captivated so many fans who had never seen him before. That debut blew up on Facebook and Twitter and it has more to do with the character work than him and Zayn slapping eachother for 2 minutes straight. Also, I have had multiple casual fans text me in the past 36 hours and none have asked me about Reigns or Ambrose or Kevin Owens - they're asking me about who this guy Nakamura is and why everyone's talking about him. I'm not saying that there's not a segment of the audience that is going to roll their eyes a bit (it seems like there are some even here), but the WWE doesn't need another "ass kicker" that goes 50/50 with the Dean Ambroses and the Kevin Owenses and the Randy Ortons - they need the "You've Never Seen Anything Like This Before" quality that Nakamura can bring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Yeah, I'm not dumb. And I still want to know if he's gay. He had some mannerisms that kinda reminded me of Dusty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 The "wrestler x must be gay if he does anything other than super-masculine look at how heterosexual I am stuff" talk is the dirt worst. Equaling someone's sexual orientation to the mannerisms of their wrestling character is just.......I can't even begin to explain for how many reasons that bothers me. Yeah, I'm not dumb.And I still want to know if he's gay. He had some mannerisms that kinda reminded me of Dusty. You're still dumb for not looking up his wikipedia page>personal life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 GOTNW, one day I'm going to fly over to Croatia get you in a headlock and give you one of those noogies to the temple. Give me a fucking break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 He's right though, a true academic would do his own research instead of ask an uninformed audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Nakamura has been fantastic for years doing this shtick. His sexuality isn't just irrelevant, the ambiguity adds to his persona, if anything. His ass kicking transcends his gender performance and that is quite literally one of the most obvious things that set him apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Is this an academic forum or a community where people can safely ask the question "Is this guy gay?" to people they hang out with and know? Seriously STFU on this. This is the dirt worst shit. If he's not gay, just say he's not gay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 I think the contrast is what makes Nakamura work. And on that note, show me a drag queen that isn't tough as nails and capable of holding their own in a fight, and I'll show you my billion dollar bank account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 I mean I could've just said "he has a wife it's his college sweetheart" but then I don't get to internet yell about things I think are worth internet yelling about. Nakamura's mannerisms are extremely important for him. "super masculine asskicker" flat out doesn't work in 2016 WWE where everyone gets 50/50 booking. The only guy that can work in that mold is Brock Lesnar because Vince is buthurt he left in 2004 and would do anything to have him, including overpay him which he has done. Their most over face who actually tours and performs on a regular basis is, uhm, Ambrose? Who can credit that to his indy cred, good looks and wacky mannerisms. And their hottest programming (NXT) has become their hottest programming by increasing effeminacy with the rise of the women's division and relying on babyfaces like Zayn and Devitt for long term reigns and also having big shows dominated with babyface victories, giving the crowd what they want etc. while also counterbalancing that with cool heels and badass characters like Sasha Banks, Asuka, Baron Corbin, Samoa Joe etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 I mean I could've just said "he has a wife it's his college sweetheart" but then I don't get to internet yell about things I think are worth internet yelling about. Next time, just give the answer and don't do the yelling. You don't need to spell out the perils of gender stereotyping to anyone here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTLL Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 The action in Joe/Balor was intense and exciting, but the drama and heat were hurt by the lack of a real structure and selling. Plus the crowd clearly favored Joe, which prevented a real face/face match, but they basically worked 50/50 slugfest anyway. So in the end the medical stoppages got far more heat than most of the actual work, especially Balor's the further the match went. His motioning for comeback heat and not getting much was a bit sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Lacelle Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Joe willed Balor, the blandest create a wrestler on either roster, into having the match of the night on a show that had that sweet Zayn/Nak match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted April 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 I think Balor is being undersold here. Guy has a great presence and is a pretty good babyface Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 I feel like he's 90% entrance and look, which admittedly means he'll probably be successful in WWE, but I just haven't seen it beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blak Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Is this an academic forum or a community where people can safely ask the question "Is this guy gay?" to people they hang out with and know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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