Reactions to the List: 25-11

[KB8]

I hope Eddie finishes top 1.

 

Bret is the last guy from my bottom half to drop, while Bock was my number...14, maybe? Hey, imagine we had all that Bock footage from his physical peak? That would be cool.

[Jimmy Redman]

Matthew dear put your head between your legs and breathe.

[El-P]

Bockwinkle was my #10.

 

I hope Lawler drops next. Or Flair (but we know that won't happen since Flair is winning the whole thing)

[Goodear]

Matthew dear put your head between your legs and breathe.

 

Don't you die on me!

[soup23]

Ring smarts will only get you so far in wrestling.

[Cap]

I was really hoping Bock would make the top 10. I have always had a lot of time for him, but watching the 80s AWA and AJ (and even Memphis) sets, his stock has rocketed for me lately.

[InYourCase]

The Fujinami ranking bugs me. He finished #3 for me, and right before the deadline, I seriously considered him as my #1 above Hansen and Kobashi. We don't have enough of his 70s work to make any sort of statement about him in regards to being the best worker of the decade, and I don't think he is, but he's outstanding from what he have.

 

Best worker of the 80s. I firmly believe that. And he did it all. Great match with Dynamite, the feud with Choshu, which I think is one of the best in-ring feuds ever, amazing performances against UWF guys, and of all things, an hour long match with Inoki that I actually like. His match quality might not reach the peaks of Flair or Jumbo from that decade, and even that is debatable, especially Jumbo, but holy shit this guy had it all figured out. Like a babyface Regal. Facials, bumping, offense, psychology - he had it all. I think he's criminally under appreciated as a great worker in the 80s. Like I said, I think he's the best of the decade. Insane performances in multi-man matches and great singles peaks as both a junior and a heavyweight.

 

I think I'm higher on his 90s work than most. I think he's really good throughout the decade, which caps off with he and Hash having a fun little team. Amazing in the WAR feud. He didn't position himself as the ace the way he did with the UWF feud in the 80s. He was older and grumpier and that came across perfectly. He still had amazing facials and bumped like a madman, he was just a step slower due to injury.

 

Miracle performance in 2006 with Nishimura.

 

I'm content with having him at 3, but he's a Top 10 wrestler and him not finishing in the Top 10 is annoying to me.

[WingedEagle]

Eddie definitely needs to drop. Madness!

 

I never connected with Steamboat on the same level as those who placed him so highly, but I've always understood what people found so appealing and engrossing about him. A bit surprised there wasn't more discussion about him along the way given the strong and broad support he ended up receiving.

[Loss]

Holy Bockwinkel! I wanted to rank him way higher than I did but couldn't justify it based on the limited wrestling I've watched. But I do think him finishing above names like Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels is a hell of a testament to how much people fell in love with him as a result of his AWA, Memphis and All Japan work. Perhaps Bockwinkel should be even higher, but for a guy whose case at this level is relatively new (meaning within our circle, it gained traction with the release of the AWA set), it's a hell of a number. Awesome.

[WingedEagle]

Matt, what pre-80s Bockwinkel is available and readily accessible? Would really like to check that out at some point.

[Grimmas]

Holy Bockwinkel! I wanted to rank him way higher than I did but couldn't justify it based on the limited wrestling I've watched. But I do think him finishing above names like Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels is a hell of a testament to how much people fell in love with him as a result of his AWA, Memphis and All Japan work. Perhaps Bockwinkel should be even higher, but for a guy whose case at this level is relatively new (meaning within our circle, it gained traction with the release of the AWA set), it's a hell of a number. Awesome.

Yeah, this should quiet some (I hope) that talked about mainstream voters ruining things. From 56 to 16!

[El-P]

I "soured" a little bit on Steamboat during my WCW watch. Wait, he was still my #22 and is obviously a great, great worker. But his crappy looking kung-fu offense and systematic over dramatic selling kinda annoyed me at some point. For a great wrestler I mean. That's why he didn't made my top 20. But yeah, an amazing resume of good to great matches over 15 years (haven't seen much of his 70's stuff). It was almost impossible to have a bad match with Steamboat (only Snuka managed to do it). Love the Dragon.

[Eegah]

I can definitely say Bockwinkel raised higher than any other wrestler for me in the past 5 years with all the footage coming out of the AWA set. Before Id only seen a smattering, after it and delving into more of his work Bock came out as an elite all timer for me. He ended up at number 6 on my list but I definitely think hed have a case for 1 if we had some more footage to work through. An exceptional pro wrestler.

[El-P]

Bock was the major new favourite of mine too in the last few years. So refreshing to see a world champion looking smart as opposed to doing dumb entertaining shit. My idea of a perfect pro-wrestler.

[WingedEagle]

Holy Bockwinkel! I wanted to rank him way higher than I did but couldn't justify it based on the limited wrestling I've watched. But I do think him finishing above names like Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels is a hell of a testament to how much people fell in love with him as a result of his AWA, Memphis and All Japan work. Perhaps Bockwinkel should be even higher, but for a guy whose case at this level is relatively new (meaning within our circle, it gained traction with the release of the AWA set), it's a hell of a number. Awesome.

 

Very much where I was on him as well, as he felt like someone who would've been a top 10-15 lock, but I have no idea if that's based on the best output of his career, the best post-prime anyone's ever had or something in between. One of the biggest question marks for me even with as much footage as we have. Hell of a showing for him.

[Loss]

I "soured" a little bit on Steamboat during my WCW watch. Wait, he was still my #22 and is obviously a great, great worker. But his crappy looking kung-fu offense and systematic over dramatic selling kinda annoyed me at some point. For a great wrestler I mean. That's why he didn't made my top 20. But yeah, an amazing resume of good to great matches over 15 years (haven't seen much of his 70's stuff). It was almost impossible to have a bad match with Steamboat (only Snuka managed to do it). Love the Dragon.

 

Even Snuka didn't bomb every time out.

 

I agree that Steamboat has some tendencies that I'm not crazy about, but I eventually chalked it up to personal tastes far more than flaws in his game.

[JKWebb]

I can definitely say Bockwinkel raised higher than any other wrestler for me in the past 5 years with all the footage coming out of the AWA set. Before Id only seen a smattering, after it and delving into more of his work Bock came out as an elite all timer for me. He ended up at number 6 on my list but I definitely think hed have a case for 1 if we had some more footage to work through. An exceptional pro wrestler.

I love his work in Memphis with Lawler that I've seen too. "Exceptional" as you said.

[Eegah]

 

I can definitely say Bockwinkel raised higher than any other wrestler for me in the past 5 years with all the footage coming out of the AWA set. Before Id only seen a smattering, after it and delving into more of his work Bock came out as an elite all timer for me. He ended up at number 6 on my list but I definitely think hed have a case for 1 if we had some more footage to work through. An exceptional pro wrestler.

I love his work in Memphis with Lawler that I've seen too. "Exceptional" as you said.

Him and Lawler together was something to behold. Between the promos and the storytelling through the buildup and matches. Great, great stuff.

[Matt D]

For me, the most important number for Bockwinkel is that 130. I'm not entirely sure there were 130 wrestling fans in the world that would have voted for him in a list like this five years ago, especially if we were going off of footage. I'm very happy with his placement. I thought he could have fallen at any point in the last day and a half, certainly.

 

As for 70s Bock, the answer is "not much." A lot of what we have is clipped. You can get a sense of him, one that mostly syncs up with the very complete later picture, but it's just a sense.

 

Just off the top of my head, there are some Bock/Stevens vs Crusher/Bruiser matches, some of a Verne match, some of a Ladd match, some of an Andre match, a lot of the match that made the High Flyers. As you get towards the end of the decade, you start to get Japanese footage, like Jumbo/Baba vs Nick/Lanza, and a couple of Jumbo matches. There is some IWE stuff from the end of the decade that I'm really looking forward to see. And you get spatterings of Memphis. Kevin could speak more at exactly what's out there.

 

Much of my case for Bock is that we have every bit of necessary footage in the 80s, in so many different situations where he had to be great to achieve different ends in different ways, that it's more than enough. Enough points to create a very detailed map.

[Loss]

I've come to think that more than "mainstream bias", what we're seeing is that voters will rank a guy who they've only recently discovered, but no matter how good they are, they often don't consider them for top level spots until they've had time to see how their work endures over time on a personal level. Bockwinkel broke through that to a degree, which is a huge deal. But I think that's what at play here more than anything else, although there is probably truth in the other theories put forth too.

[bradhindsight]

132 ballots for Bock and those Top 10 numbers really jump out.

[Eegah]

Its Vader time! Tying for most ballots appeared on is impressive, like his career in varying promotions shows that Vader can be enjoyed by any and everyone.

[soup23]

I figured Vader would have a good chance at being on every ballot, 148/151 is not bad. Does anyone want to speak up about leaving him or Steamer off their ballot and why?

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

I've come to think that more than "mainstream bias", what we're seeing is that voters will rank a guy who they've only recently discovered, but no matter how good they are, they often don't consider them for top level spots until they've had time to see how their work endures over time on a personal level. Bockwinkel broke through that to a degree, which is a huge deal. But I think that's what at play here more than anything else, although there is probably truth in the other theories put forth too.

 

I'd say Buddy Rose broke through that as well.

[MoS]

I am now actually thinking I ranked Bock lower than I should have, and I had him in my top 15. All I had going for him was a pack I DL'd from XWTClassics, and if I had the AWA set, then he surely would have ranked higher. No idea if any seller will ship it to India at a reasonable price though.

 

And fuck you all, Eddie is awesome.