Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4

[NintendoLogic]

Don't forget about Big Show's quickie 2002 reign and the last few months of CM Punk's year-long reign. Didn't Heyman also manage Show when he was ECW champion?

[Blehschmidt]

Ummm... maybe? Pretty much everything that's happened in WWE since like 2002 just all kind of runs together anymore.

Even so, we'd be looking at 4 guys to get close to or equal 1 guy.

[Migs]

Given the general length of title reigns nowadays, I'd say Heyman's number is more impressive. WWE has been trending back upwards, but it's still not close to the stasis that was the AWA in the 70s.

[SteveJRogers]

3 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

Don't forget about Big Show's quickie 2002 reign and the last few months of CM Punk's year-long reign. Didn't Heyman also manage Show when he was ECW champion?

When does Heyman become Smackdown GM?

Not sure if the WWECW era counts as “manager/advocate/whatever you want to call your second” for Heyman as he was the heel authority figure of the brand from turning on RVD until he quit/got fired after D2D.  So it was more akin to his original ECW character than a straight manager/second gimmick character.

[Sean Reedy]

On 11/9/2021 at 2:50 PM, sek69 said:

I mean.... he *is*. Great talker, his guys are always challenging the champ, the only difference is Heyman's guys usually win the title. The only difference is Heyman doesn't take the bumps Bobby would. 

Getting old is just funny to me. An 18 year old has grown up watching Heyman often be the manager at ringside for major football stadium Mania main events. And I have to somehow come along and try to say "Yes its a nice moment for him to be one of the biggest stars of this billion dollar new network TV era, but actually the most important work of his career was done off screen when he was running a show every 3 weeks at an old warehouse under an overpass that truthfully seated probably 900 most nights with a TV show that maybe aired at 2am in your market if you were lucky ."

[sek69]

Yeah wait until that 18 year old finds out the guy running the first real competition in 20+ years most important work was starting the sleaze thread at DVDVR 

[Ricky Jackson]

Ray Rougeau the latest former wrestler to be elected to office, as mayor of a town in Quebec 

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-the-wednesday-edition-1.6244300/how-pro-wrestling-prepared-raymond-rougeau-to-be-a-quebec-town-mayor-1.6244302

[SteveJRogers]

1 hour ago, Ricky Jackson said:

Ray Rougeau the latest former wrestler to be elected to office, as mayor of a town in Quebec 

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-the-wednesday-edition-1.6244300/how-pro-wrestling-prepared-raymond-rougeau-to-be-a-quebec-town-mayor-1.6244302

Is Jacque going to be the head of his police force?

[SteveJRogers]

3 hours ago, sek69 said:

Yeah wait until that 18 year old finds out the guy running the first real competition in 20+ years most important work was starting the sleaze thread at DVDVR 

Well, it certainly isn’t leading an NFL team to unparalleled success since his family started to run the team

[cactus]

I still haven't seen Joe/Punk II yet. I'm going to change that this weekend, but do I need to see their first match to get the whole picture? 

[BigBadMick]

I watched the trilogy about a year ago. You could watch 2 alone, but I think they benefit from being watched chronologically.

[BigBadMick]

And I would recommend listening to these after each match...

 

 

[joeg]

Was there any plan for Hulk Hogan and Mike Tyson following WM8? Or was Hogan's confrontation with Tyson on Arsenio just a one off thing? 

[sek69]

Well Tyson was sent to prison in March 1992, so I would say no. Vince had been trying to get him for a while so I'm sure there were probably some discussions before all of that though

[Ricky Jackson]

I think the most serious Hogan vs Tyson discussions happened in 1989. Don King wouldn't sign off on a match afaik 

[joeg]

@sek69 Yeah, I was just curious if the angle they on the Arsenio show in February was supposed to actually lead to something and if that something was scrapped because of Tyson's arrest and/or Hogan leaving. And what effect if any it had on Hogan leaving after Mania. 

[sek69]

My best guess is Tyson may have been going into business for himself a little as we all know he's a massive fan and I'm sure wanted to do an angle with Hogan. I would have loved to be able to eavesdrop on negotiations between Vince and Don King though, I can just imagine what that sounded like. 

[Dav'oh]

I know WWF ended up with Buster Douglas, so I did some digging. Here's the story from http://stholeary.blogspot.com/2014/06/how-buster-douglas-changed-history-of.html:

According to the Wrestling Observer, rumors of a Hulk Hogan/Mike Tyson match started percolating in 1988. At that point, there did not seem to be anything substantial to the rumors other than everyone agreeing it would be the biggest money-maker in the history of pro wrestling, boxing, pay-per-view and potentially live entertainment.

By 1990, these rumors picked up serious steam and Don King – never one to back down from a microphone – did nothing to quell those rumors. Whether a Hulk Hogan/Mike Tyson match was ever actually in the works is something known only by a select few. We do know it was floated in the mainstream media by Don King.

As King told the Daily News in early 1990, “If Vince came up with the money - and I'm talking between $100 and $200 million - I might be able to convince Mike to do it.”

These rumors gained steamed as it was announced the WWF would be paying Mike Tyson nearly $1 million to be the special guest referee at The Main Event on Feb. 23, 1990, during the live, primetime NBC special.

In the world of the WWF, there was another superstar who was on the brink of mainstream acceptance – the Ultimate Warrior. As Vince McMahon ruminated on the eventual end of Hulkamania, everyone knew that the Ultimate Warrior was being groomed to replace Hogan as the top star.

With everything swirling, there was little doubt that something big was going to happen in Detroit. In fact, in the weeks leading up to the Buster Douglas fight, Don King had a special guest in Tokyo – Vince McMahon. The two reportedly discussed creating a partnership to promote wrestling supercards, Mike Tyson fights, movies and even a cartoon featuring Tyson....

In 1989, the second Main Event featured the breakup of the Mega Powers as Randy Savage turned on Hulk Hogan. The breakup included Savage producing arguably the best heel promo in pro wrestling history – see above about the WrestleMania V buyrate.

So the stakes were high going into 1990, as Savage and Hogan would face off in a rematch for the WWF title with the most famous athlete in the world as the special guest referee.

While the Main Event for WrestleMania VI was officially announced as The Ultimate Warrior vs. Hulk Hogan, the pro wrestling rumor mill was in overdrive stating that it would not happen.

 

For one, the Hogan/Tyson match loomed as a possibility. Secondly, speculation soared that Vince was getting cold-feet on his plan of having the Ultimate Warrior defeat Hogan for the title – Hogan had never lost cleanly in the WWF. To avoid this, it was believed Savage would win the WWF Title on the Main Event, potentially with help from Tyson, to set up Savage vs. Warrior and Hogan vs. Tyson at WrestleMania VI.

From a 1990 news article on Buster Douglas:

“In the months before Douglas' stunning victory, King and McMahon were working on a three-part scheme designed to take hundreds of millions of dollars from foolish sports fans and the parents of impressionable children.

King owned Tyson, considered unbeatable at the time. And McMahon's WWF owned Hulk Hogan, the kind of cartoon character only pro wrestling can manufacture.

Together, these two super hustlers planned to combine their two super heroes into one of the grandest money-making schemes in sports history.

According to sources, the scenario was to unfold on Feb. 23 when Tyson received $1 million to serve as guest referee on a wrestling card pitting Hogan against Randy Savage, a designated bad guy.

Tyson was to somehow interfere, allow Savage to win, and Hogan and Tyson would then be matched in a pay-per-view extravaganza expected to generate at least $125 million.”

Then Mike Tyson lost."

[JRH]

 I wonder how Warrior's title win would have been received if he had beaten Savage  for the title instead of Hogan at WM6.

[khawk20]

Not nearly the same, I believe. Hogan losing was something that *could* have happened in a match vs warrior, strictly on the face bs face dynamic. For the many that wanted Hogan to lose the title so badly, that was a huge carrot.

Warrior beating Savage would have been well received but not nearly as well, IMO. 

[sek69]

Yeah Hogan/Warrior was lightning in a bottle. Savage would have given him a better match but it wouldn't have been anywhere as memorable. 

[Alucard]

Fascinating to imagine that scenario playing out, with Hogan/Tyson at VI 

[NintendoLogic]

Beating Savage for the title might have been better for Warrior in the long run, though. For one thing, Hogan/Warrior actually drew a disappointing buyrate. In fact, it was nearly outdrawn that year by Summerslam. Also, Hogan did far more to get himself over in the loss than he did to get Warrior over in victory. And even if he hadn't, by forcing the fans to pick a side, it seems inevitable that Warrior would have come across as the lesser star. There's a reason Pedro or Backlund never beat Bruno.

[SteveJRogers]

On 11/11/2021 at 9:55 PM, Dav'oh said:

From a 1990 news article on Buster Douglas:

“In the months before Douglas' stunning victory, King and McMahon were working on a three-part scheme designed to take hundreds of millions of dollars from foolish sports fans and the parents of impressionable children.

King owned Tyson, considered unbeatable at the time. And McMahon's WWF owned Hulk Hogan, the kind of cartoon character only pro wrestling can manufacture.

Together, these two super hustlers planned to combine their two super heroes into one of the grandest money-making schemes in sports history.

According to sources, the scenario was to unfold on Feb. 23 when Tyson received $1 million to serve as guest referee on a wrestling card pitting Hogan against Randy Savage, a designated bad guy.

Tyson was to somehow interfere, allow Savage to win, and Hogan and Tyson would then be matched in a pay-per-view extravaganza expected to generate at least $125 million.”

Then Mike Tyson lost."

I find it amusing that whomever wrote that makes it seem that the majority of non-kid, and non-adults with mental issues pro-wrestling fans in 1990 didn’t know the true nature of “the business.  

I mean, yeah you don’t get much more sleazy carny with mainstream shine than King and Vince, but that reads like they mapped out a “legit” series of boxing matches that supposedly were on the level.  

As opposed to a crafted, multi-layer narrative for the major storylines for their two main event performance exhibitions at the biggest show of the year.

[SteveJRogers]

On 11/11/2021 at 10:42 PM, sek69 said:

Yeah Hogan/Warrior was lightning in a bottle. Savage would have given him a better match but it wouldn't have been anywhere as memorable. 

Be interesting though if their match at 8, and Wembley SummerSlam were part of a trilogy as opposed to just the two.

8 adds the added dimension of not only Savage going after someone who had his old belt, and someone who refused to give him a match, but someone he had yet to defeat.